Some concerns before coming back to Cat.....

[sno*jet]

the damn proclimb when riding up and down hills (mountain riding) flashes low fuel at 1/2 tank. Psyched people out more than anything.
All of the generalizations of the mono-rail under the ascender cannot be carried over to the catalyst. Maybe some. Arm location changed on the rail, chassis is completely different and is lighter weight.
there were also durability improvements in both the rail and the track in the later years of the ascender version, maybe not huge, but improvements.
guys saying they would buy one if it had a twin rail without even riding it I don't think are serious anyways. The twin rail would likely put it couple pounds more than a 9r.

 

[BeartoothBaron]

Like Chewy, sno*jet, and others are saying, the monorail should work better in a chassis designed around it. I'm sure somebody will convert to twin-rail and swear by it, but hopefully Cat hits it well enough that the monorail works better for most people and conditions. It's hard to predict the fuel consumption; I bet it's similar to Poo's 850, but a little short of Doo. Also, I'd bet it takes a year or two to get the best out of it; even the Doo guys say their early 850s don't feel as strong. It's probably going to be advantage Doo on fuel consumption for a while, but too small a difference to be any more than a tie-breaker.

 

[Cinno]

I was once a die hard Cat guy, but it's been several years.
We've had Cat's in the group, but not for over 10 years.
Couple concerns I'd like to learn the answers to before coming back.....
1 - I read a lot of comments (negative) about the mono rail. I'd really like to hear more good and bad about that.
2 - When we had Cats in the group they were always the first low on fuel, is this still the case?

Had a 2020 800cc alpha mountain cat 164 for a few years (over 1200 miles). My buddy had a 2019 850 summit and I always used up to 2 gals per tank more fuel, however in the mountains we never ran lower than 1/4 tank before getting off the mountain so I never ran out. One issue I always looked out for is keeping the track tensioned properly as it wanted to stretch often. If it got too loose the center track clips will dig into the hyfax on the center rail causing excessive wear. I used the stock arctic cat track tension measuring tool to set it properly. The max air pressure on the center track shock per the manual was 60 psi, I always ran 30 which was stock per manual. Many liked to run way over that which IMO would cause excessive hyfax wear. I also ran with the rail scratchers down even off trail in low snow conditions not only for motor cooling but also to make sure the hyfax stayed lubricated. I also never ran the QRS center shock less than 2, to make sure there was enough damping force at high track speed on rough trails to keep the shock from bottoming. I hammed that sled going down the trail on the whoops and never damaged the rail. In 2021 I added a factory Cat rail stiffener to protect against rail damage. There are several after market rail stiffener kits available but the factory came out with one in 2021. I loved the sled in the deep snow however if I followed an existing track deeper than one foot the rear track would climb up the side of the trench giving me a squirrely side to side motion. I think that is unique to the single rail. Never felt that when making my own track. That track in the deep snow was a beast never has a problem keeping up with a skidoo 175". I could side hill where a billy goat wouldn't go. Never had a washout issue. With that track and front end I rarely had to go opposite foot forward, had a 2016 Polaris axis 164 prior and when first getting on the alpha I over drove badly. I settled in pretty quickly.

Cinno

 

[Mafesto]

How is the Alpha in regards to cooling and hyfax wear on low snow trail conditions?
Do scratchers take care of any concern there?
Is the 2.6" noticeably more forgiving than the 3" in those conditions?

 

[IDspud]

We don’t ride trail more than a couple miles ever, but skimpy snow we’ve had no heating issues except one day that was a sheet of ice everywhere we went, but it sucked so bad we should’ve got the hint earlier.
My hyfax wear hasn’t been any more than other sleds. Have had to adjust tension more often for stretching, too loose is not good.
Definitely built for deep snow, but we ride from drive until you spin in 2wd areas rather than developed lots, resulting minimum low snow levels hasn’t been a big issue.

 

[koolaid]

How is the Alpha in regards to cooling and hyfax wear on low snow trail conditions?
Do scratchers take care of any concern there?
Is the 2.6" noticeably more forgiving than the 3" in those conditions?

As long as you keep the scratchers down, you shouldn't have any excessive wear. My 154 × 3" track and hyfax are both in EXCELLENT shape. One thing mentioned here and is very true is maintaining proper track tension. Also, keep speed on trails at or below 50mph.

My 23 9R does much worse in regards to overheating down the trail than the Alpha. Another note that should get 10X the coverage but doesn't is the amount or lack of snow that builds up in the mono rail vs. a dual rail. I was packed, carrying 10# yday in my 9R as where the Alpha might have 1-2 #. Night and day. Can't wait for the Catalyst 858!

 

[boondocker97]

Cooling of the track in the center seems to be a bigger deal than hyfax wear. It doesn't get as much spray in the center as a twin rail and it's only getting it from one side so less cooling and lubrication from the scratchers. Keep the trail speeds down to help keep from de-laminating in the center. Clipping every window instead of every other from the factory helps too I think. The clips can eat the hyfax in the center groove towards the front. 500 miles and I have to change hyfax on my Kmod skinny due to this. I keep on top of my track tension too.

The 2.6" track has been reported to be more durable and less likely to throw lugs than the 3". It is 10-12lb heavier though due to more track fingers and shorter pitch.

With the scratchers supplied with the Kmod skinny skid my engine would frequently get hot on the trail. Installed factory scratchers again and it does ok now. Supercharger may be contributing to increased temps too.

 

[Vern]

With scratchers down I’ve never had an issue with heating unless the snow is frozen solid, and those days every sled is overheating. I also haven’t ran a snow flap since day one. As to hyfax wear as others stated the only issues I’ve had were when the track gets too loose and then the clips will cut into the hyfax. Just changed my hyfax due to this with 2k miles on them and the thickness was fine showed hardly any wear in that respect. As stated keep speeds under control on hard pack and the track will last.

 

[hansenmac]

been riding my catalyst M6 around the farm in ND and in the soybean field theres maybe an inch of snow, you know perfect break in conditions... and the rest of the snow is wind blown rock hard drifts for the most part and with one scratcher down the guage shows little above half on temp havent looked if theres a digital readout but doesnt throw the alarm on. the boys have been on there 120 and 200 so thats why i'm going around in such nice conditions. might as well get it out of break in mode.

 

[joshkoltes]

I'd say run the alpha to see if you can. It's snow dependant, it works in good snow or if your athletic.
I'm fat old and not in the mood for new tricks. That thing broke a rib then my neck in 200 miles and that was more than enough.
I was or still am worried about the exploding clutch. My first adapt went at 70 miles and got warrantied as it destroyed that whole side of the sled. The dealer left loose chunks behind and took out the new set. Had to buy new ones out of pocket which was way easier than dealing with cat warranty or my local dealer.
I'm trying a new dealer on the catylist maby the relations will improve. There aren't a lot of cat dealers anymore. Surprising there isn't one in Billings Mt.
I think the casper one is gone too.
Seems like the Polaris is having clutch issues too so it's not a pick one or the other they all suck, even saw an exploded p drive the other day.

 

[Cinno]

How is the Alpha in regards to cooling and hyfax wear on low snow trail conditions?
Do scratchers take care of any concern there?
Is the 2.6" noticeably more forgiving than the 3" in those conditions?

I over heated many times off trail (3" track) even with scratchers down, when going very slow picking my way thru trees in low snow conditions. My buddies had 175"850 summits and rarely had issues. If I maintained fairly continuous low speeds, it was enough to pickup snow for cooling. The stop and starts was the killer. I fab'ed up my own removable snow flap similar to skidoo type and tried to run that in medium to low snow conditions and it always overheated without the flap in low snow conditions, newer ran without the flag ever again.

Cinno

 

[turboless terry]

146 2.6 was 5/8 to 3/4 on guage. Tried to sneak up trail a little way and it got hot quick without scratchers down. Put them down and it dropped to 3/4 again. No idea what that means for temperature or if you can switch it from bar graph to digital temp.

 

[joshkoltes]

Yep you can don't remember how but I know I have mine set to numbers
Makes it look like this but obviously temp not volts

 

[turboless terry]

Yep you can don't remember how but I know I have mine set to numbers
Makes it look like this but obviously temp not volts

Had my alpha set to numbers but different gauge on catalyst

 

[NHRoadking]

Poo and Cat could use a removable snow flap. Two guys in our group made their own for their Poos. Made a difference in cooling.

 

[Hawkster]

I'd say run the alpha to see if you can. It's snow dependant, it works in good snow or if your athletic.
I'm fat old and not in the mood for new tricks. That thing broke a rib then my neck in 200 miles and that was more than enough.
I was or still am worried about the exploding clutch. My first adapt went at 70 miles and got warrantied as it destroyed that whole side of the sled. The dealer left loose chunks behind and took out the new set. Had to buy new ones out of pocket which was way easier than dealing with cat warranty or my local dealer.
I'm trying a new dealer on the catylist maby the relations will improve. There aren't a lot of cat dealers anymore. Surprising there isn't one in Billings Mt.
I think the casper one is gone too.
Seems like the Polaris is having clutch issues too so it's not a pick one or the other they all suck, even saw an exploded p drive the other day.

A bit of home work but look into this, no need to do the mods because this clutch is smooth as silk, they are used in application around the world in machines I've never heard of. Not to mention all three sled manufactures use them in many other applications.
If your happy with the cumbersome drag clutches the manufactures make don't do it
I also wouldn't advise these clutches on engines known for crank failure. There is no flinging mass on these, all weight is kept centralized to the shaft of the clutch, the response is instant, say good by to the slow revs.
It's on the list for the catalyst, the Hawk, 800 HO is running one, engagement is 2850 and holds at 8450.
The clutch on the catalyst is like waiting for the light to turn green

cv tech - Airdam Clutches

airdamclutches.com

These also don't eat themselves..

 

[joshkoltes]

Had my alpha set to numbers but different gauge on catalyst

Oh chit forgot what thread I was in

 

[bnorth]

I over heated many times off trail (3" track) even with scratchers down, when going very slow picking my way thru trees in low snow conditions. My buddies had 175"850 summits and rarely had issues. If I maintained fairly continuous low speeds, it was enough to pickup snow for cooling. The stop and starts was the killer. I fab'ed up my own removable snow flap similar to skidoo type and tried to run that in medium to low snow conditions and it always overheated without the flap in low snow conditions, newer ran without the flag ever again.

Cinno

Doo 175's are almost impossible to overheat because they have such huge coolers and so much coolant capacity. I ride one semi regularly pulling a huge rescue toboggan with a couple hundred pounds of gear in it and it stays cool.

 

[Cinno]

Doo 175's are almost impossible to overheat because they have such huge coolers and so much coolant capacity. I ride one semi regularly pulling a huge rescue toboggan with a couple hundred pounds of gear in it and it stays cool.

The key words " almost impossible" and "rarely" are still applicable as I know a guy that cut off some of his summit 850 175" mud flap rather than buying the removable kit and guess what? The sled over heats in low and slow conditions. He got the removable flap kit and went back to stock length. You wouldn't think ~3 inches would make that must difference in cooling but it did. I guess those Skidoo engineers got the stock flap length right.

Cinno

 

[Teth-Air]

The key words " almost impossible" and "rarely" are still applicable as I know a guy that cut off some of his summit 850 175" mud flap rather than buying the removable kit and guess what? The sled over heats in low and slow conditions. He got the removable flap kit and went back to stock length. You wouldn't think ~3 inches would make that must difference in cooling but it did. I guess those Skidoo engineers got the stock flap length right.

Cinno

What a pain in the butt carrying that stupid flap. Or leaving it at the trail head and hoping you don't forget about it on your return trip. My buddy on hisTurbo-R 175 has to deal with it every time it is not deep. I guess its better than overheating though.