Patriot boost oil

[shelbwyo]

What oil are you going to run in your new snow pony?

I have ran Amsoil in my last 2 axys, exhaust valves get somewhat dirty but nothing horrible. Blew my 2016 up around 2300 miles, rod bearing on the crank must have wore out, as the washer next to it came apart and took out mag side (about 300 miles on new top end). 2018 still going strong at almost 1k miles. I am religious about warming the motor up before taking off and I think that is why the stock and replacement pistons looked really good.

I need to order amsoil before the snow gets here anyways, but looking to see if anyone can convince me to run the VES extreme over amsoil in the patriot boost. Lots of turbo guys last decade running amsoil with good results. I have seen most the videos about cold pour and I know what the manual says, but am still not sold on spending almost double on a gallon of oil $35 vs $60.

 

[G-Force]

sounds like you might need only one, mayyybe 2 jugs her season, with you 2018 only at 1000 miles? So max savings per year is only $25-$50 ? hardly seems worth it to "skimp" on oil purchase?
if it was me, and especially being a first year model, I'd run whatever they recommend to eliminate a variable should an engine warranty situation were to arise... one less thing for the mothership to have at their disposal to refuse coverage.
YMMV

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

What oil are you going to run in your new snow pony?

I have ran Amsoil in my last 2 axys, exhaust valves get somewhat dirty but nothing horrible. Blew my 2016 up around 2300 miles, rod bearing on the crank must have wore out, as the washer next to it came apart and took out mag side (about 300 miles on new top end). 2018 still going strong at almost 1k miles. I am religious about warming the motor up before taking off and I think that is why the stock and replacement pistons looked really good.

I need to order amsoil before the snow gets here anyways, but looking to see if anyone can convince me to run the VES extreme over amsoil in the patriot boost. Lots of turbo guys last decade running amsoil with good results. I have seen most the videos about cold pour and I know what the manual says, but am still not sold on spending almost double on a gallon of oil $35 vs $60.

View the patriot boost oil vid.


I’m planning to run the poo oil…….

 

[shelbwyo]

sounds like you might need only one, mayyybe 2 jugs her season, with you 2018 only at 1000 miles? So max savings per year is only $25-$50 ? hardly seems worth it to "skimp" on oil purchase?
if it was me, and especially being a first year model, I'd run whatever they recommend to eliminate a variable should an engine warranty situation were to arise... one less thing for the mothership to have at their disposal to refuse coverage.
YMMV

Just noticed I need to change my sig. Anyways, i bought the 18 in Feb 2021 after my 16 blew up and put about 300 miles on it. I realize the yearly cost isnt much but I may keep it for a long time. Its curious to me how the aftermarket companies arent trying to relay the message that their oil will work on the newest models. I doubt any dealer will try to deny warranty based on the oil that you use, if they tried I would never go back. Would Ford deny warranty on your f-350 if you were not using Motorcraft oil? If Polaris developed extreme with the patriot motor did they ever test it with a different oil or have any failures? Im sure that the axys manual recommended VES gold but now we know that other oils will do just as good as we have seen with many previous motors.

 

[Reg2view]

JMHO. First year motor, stay OEM for the first season. The first question asked by Poo or Doo to the dealer tech when approving a warranty on a blown motor is - what oil was in the sled. I've been behind the curtain in Oz, and that's what they are trained to do. It can't be required under magnuson-moss, but it's not a good fact. If you flip the sled after the first year its a non-issue with the buyer. There is other good oil out there besides Amsoil, too - e.g., Redline (syn), Legend (dino), outside of OEM. Extreme has a good track record. Why bother on a first year motor. Yeah, someone will always have a horror story with an oil. I have my own. There is no wonder oil. After year one, up to you. Warm up, which you do, is huge, along with storing the sled during and after season. Repeatedly pulling a cold motor into a warm garage without a warmup has corroded lots of rod bearings in a season or two, e.g. These units are too tightly engineered and leaned for emissions to treat them like an ugly girlfriend when you were single.

 

[Murph]

View the patriot boost oil vid.


I’m planning to run the poo oil…….

Same here. I go through CASES of Poo oil every year.

In the whole scheme of money spent throughout a season.... it's a pretty minor line item.

 

[Mentzel]

Polaris 850 XCR
stock 2020 ecu map (2500 miles)
2020 ECU flash
3/7/21
10 gallons gas / 48 ounces oil
26.6 / 1 ratio

3/8/21
9.99 gal / 46 oz oil
27.8 / 1 ratio

2021 ECU flash (2700 miles)
3/21/21
10.5 gal / 38 oz oil
35 / 1 ratio

4/3/21
9.0 gal / xx oz oil


The problem is the oil injection method and rate. Usage is around 26:1 on 20/20 map. The electronic pump is not manually adjustable like the old Cleanfire 800. The Patriot 840 oil pumping rate has to be corrected in ecu map since it is all electronic.

Polaris went from 65:1 on CF800, (barely used any oil so we were turning up the pumps).

to ~26:1 on Patriot 840. Holy cow too much! smokey..dawg

The target range for the past 30 years has been 40-50:1. It just seems to work great in 2 strokes 500-1000cc range.

The 840 oil injection method now targets specific bearings to oil and the fuel injector is in the transfer port/s. So you can’t just pre-mix gas and oil like old engines to fix.

To be clear there is nothing wrong with VES Extreme oil. You just can’t inject it at 26:1.. Its going to foul plugs all day long.

The VES Gold oil is more tolerant to heavy oiling rates. I’ve used it in racing engines for over 20 years in all brand engines including BRP. It just works!

The CF800 with stock oil pump setting will work great with Extreme oil. It injects at half the rate so extreme oil works great in that engine!

The work around for the 840 is hotter plugs and VES Gold oil. BPR8ES plugs. (solid top).

Also do not overlook the spark plug caps. Once they start arcing replace them. (plug top will look shiny and a little melted at pin spots.) This will cause the cylinder drop feeling when you hit bumps.

 

[Mentzel]

For 2022 you get a completely new engine management system for all the added control points that a boosted sled requires.

I hope they get the mapping figured out for oil injection rates first..

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

I used to run other oils that were technically approved and would be covered under warranty but as mentioned above I got sick of even having the conversations with dealer regarding warranty. I ran VES gold and extreme in last 3 sled.

Going to stick with extreme on the new boost. i do like the lower cold pour point to ensure good flow when the sled does have to spend the nights outside. Help ensure good oiling before everything underhood is up to temp.

 

[volcano buster]

I appear to have less smoke in the trailer when warming the sleds up in the morning with the VES Extreme.

 

[Murph]

The electronic pump is not manually adjustable like the old Cleanfire 800. The Patriot 840 oil pumping rate has to be corrected in ecu map since it is all electronic.

Depending on the pump that is installed you could (in theory) change flow rate by changing pump number setting. There are 5 pumps (different flow rates) to choose from in Digital Wrench.

 

[chickenstixx]

to ~26:1 on Patriot 840. Holy cow too much! smokey..dawg

The target range for the past 30 years has been 40-50:1. It just seems to work great in 2 strokes 500-1000cc range.

The 840 oil injection method now targets specific bearings to oil and the fuel injector is in the transfer port/s. So you can’t just pre-mix gas and oil like old engines to fix.

To be clear there is nothing wrong with VES Extreme oil. You just can’t inject it at 26:1.. Its going to foul plugs all day long.

Hi Mentzel, just want to add some additional information.

It is pretty well documented the relationship of fuelil ratio and RPM and/or piston FPM.

The higher the RPM, the higher the migration rates of oil. These new sleds ( polaris to be exact ) are tuned to turn 8200 RPM. That is a VERY high rpm with the stroke. last i calculated, i think, was 3800 FPM.

Most jet ski racers running two stroke motors run 20:1 or at the bare minimum 32:1 for RPM from 8600 to 7200. It's very clear the longevity and power is maintained at a much higher level with more oil. Less friction. less wear, more ring seal, etc. It's not a coincidence when you switch to a heavier oiling rate a TON of engine issues seemingly disappear.

the 26:1 at WOT ( number supplied by yourself ) is pretty necessary if you are beating on the engine at 8000+ rpm. I would bet the ol' left nut that if the oil was turned down to 40:1 and heaven FORBID 50:1 you would see a much higher failure rate of rod end bearings and heat issues.

And granted it sucks to foul plugs often, but with the nature of cold starting, and oil having to not burn up at high sled temps, the lesser evil was chosen, new plugs over new top ends.....

 

[Mentzel]

Hi Mentzel, just want to add some additional information.

It is pretty well documented the relationship of fuelil ratio and RPM and/or piston FPM.

The higher the RPM, the higher the migration rates of oil. These new sleds ( polaris to be exact ) are tuned to turn 8200 RPM. That is a VERY high rpm with the stroke. last i calculated, i think, was 3800 FPM.

Most jet ski racers running two stroke motors run 20:1 or at the bare minimum 32:1 for RPM from 8600 to 7200. It's very clear the longevity and power is maintained at a much higher level with more oil. Less friction. less wear, more ring seal, etc. It's not a coincidence when you switch to a heavier oiling rate a TON of engine issues seemingly disappear.

the 26:1 at WOT ( number supplied by yourself ) is pretty necessary if you are beating on the engine at 8000+ rpm. I would bet the ol' left nut that if the oil was turned down to 40:1 and heaven FORBID 50:1 you would see a much higher failure rate of rod end bearings and heat issues.

And granted it sucks to foul plugs often, but with the nature of cold starting, and oil having to not burn up at high sled temps, the lesser evil was chosen, new plugs over new top ends.....

26:1 is never necessary in any 2-stroke engine. Polaris engines have turned 8000+ RPMs for more than 30 years. Jet ski racers don’t mix at 32:1 ever. (the few 2 stroke racers left anyway)

 

[Mentzel]

BRP engines are injecting way less. 65-80:1 total injection. Using 1/3 of a gallon every fill up is terrible! Polaris needs to get mapping figured out. Good luck with new engine management system. I sure hope it works well.

 

[Mentzel]

Depending on the pump that is installed you could (in theory) change flow rate by changing pump number setting. There are 5 pumps (different flow rates) to choose from in Digital Wrench.

This is just for calibration. (matching pump output to ECU voltage) In theory you probably could but it would be a pure guess which setting would work “better”.

The 2021 ecu map is much better oil wise. But still not great. Who knows what the new 2022 engine management system will bring. Hopefully pure joy and gold nuggets.

 

[chickenstixx]

26:1 is never necessary in any 2-stroke engine. Polaris engines have turned 8000+ RPMs for more than 30 years. Jet ski racers don’t mix at 32:1 ever. (the few 2 stroke racers left anyway)

Ok well now you are officially, 100% wrong. Good luck with your theories.

 

[shelbwyo]

JMHO. First year motor, stay OEM for the first season. The first question asked by Poo or Doo to the dealer tech when approving a warranty on a blown motor is - what oil was in the sled. I've been behind the curtain in Oz, and that's what they are trained to do. It can't be required under magnuson-moss, but it's not a good fact. If you flip the sled after the first year its a non-issue with the buyer. There is other good oil out there besides Amsoil, too - e.g., Redline (syn), Legend (dino), outside of OEM. Extreme has a good track record. Why bother on a first year motor. Yeah, someone will always have a horror story with an oil. I have my own. There is no wonder oil. After year one, up to you. Warm up, which you do, is huge, along with storing the sled during and after season. Repeatedly pulling a cold motor into a warm garage without a warmup has corroded lots of rod bearings in a season or two, e.g. These units are too tightly engineered and leaned for emissions to treat them like an ugly girlfriend when you were single.

Do you fog your motor in the off season? Never thought about putting a cold motor in the garage, although mine isnt heated, I usually let it warm up some before pulling it off the truck. Agreed, they have to be taken care of.

 

[shelbwyo]

I used to run other oils that were technically approved and would be covered under warranty but as mentioned above I got sick of even having the conversations with dealer regarding warranty. I ran VES gold and extreme in last 3 sled.

Going to stick with extreme on the new boost. i do like the lower cold pour point to ensure good flow when the sled does have to spend the nights outside. Help ensure good oiling before everything underhood is up to temp.

I get what your saying, could save some pushback from the dealer. Honestly it should not be a big deal as long as said oil meets certain standards. I like the cold pour point as well, but how do we know what the cold pour is of other oils? In the test video it does not disclose what the others are (although i assume its amsoil and redline). In the grand scheme of things for those cold starts i would think the most important aspect would be the residual oil left on the components when it was shut off because the output of the oil pump at cold temps is very minimal. There is a video with brp oil too, but we wont open that bag of skunks!

 

[shelbwyo]

Depending on the pump that is installed you could (in theory) change flow rate by changing pump number setting. There are 5 pumps (different flow rates) to choose from in Digital Wrench.

Has anyone ever attempted to do this?

 

[chickenstixx]

Has anyone ever attempted to do this?

It has been done on BRP 850's to turn UP the oil, by putting a LOWER oil pump number in the CanDoo Pro. Premix oil > $800 top end.