Kit choices, tough decisions 2017

[Norma Stitz]

Well I selected the donor bike for the snow project. It's a 2012 husky SMR511. It has electric start, close ratio gearbox, Fi and a kickstand. Now I'm faced with the kit selection. It's tough! There are so many quality kits out there and it seems the levels of refinement are really getting sweet.

But which will be best for me? Let me say that I've eliminated the yeti kit and the 2moto because of various reasons. They looks awesome but for me I feel there are better choices. But variables have my head spinning. Especially since I've never ridden a snow bike.

We live in the PacNW and our snow is wet, heavy and dense most of the time. It may be raining frequently when out in the snow. We often get our snow right before a warming trend that brings more moisture. It's why I quit skiing. It's garbage snow. But, I still want to play.

I weigh about 165 without all my accessories on, but I'm 6'5" so I have a very non typical build. Think jack skelington, but less pretty.

I want an all around great bike, that I can learn to play on, and grow into for several years before an upgrade. So what track length? Models?

In my quest I decided to call all the major manufacturers and see what they had to say, and if they would answer the phone.

I spoke with a VERY helpful person at mototrax who took a lot of time to explain their kits to me and im leaning heavily toward that company. They seem to be doing the right things for the right reasons and their kits come with a TWO year warranty. That has a lot of pull for me honestly. It says not only am I protected but they feel like they won't be hearing from me. And they are only an 8 hour drive from me .

So, what do we think about the mototrax kits this year? My gut tells me the choice would be between the enduro120, mtn129, or mx129 models. Part of me thinks a 120" model would be sufficient for me and our climate, but I have less than zero experience to base an opinion. Please help,...

 

[Grr]

The mototrax IMO is the best designed kit on the market by a long shot. I'm also going to be ordering one this summer. With that size of a vine I would go with a 129 myself.

 

[DenverSnowBike]

The mototrax IMO is the best designed kit on the market by a long shot. I'm also going to be ordering one this summer. With that size of a vine I would go with a 129 myself.

IMO I'd go with a 120 kit...

You don't need to bump up sizes past that until you're 200#s +

 

[Norma Stitz]

The mototrax IMO is the best designed kit on the market by a long shot. I'm also going to be ordering one this summer. With that size of a vine I would go with a 129 myself.

Which model are you going with? Seems like the enduro is the loss leader of the offerings, at 3999$, but only comes 120". The MX has fancy shock and comes either 120",129".

I'm tempted to stay with the base model enduro, in hopes that our heavy snow won't necessitate the longer tracks, but I'd hate to rob myself of the joy of a light powder day that will happen occasionally because I went with a short track.

I also have no idea how much the fancy shock of the mx will benefit me, especially as a newb

 

[MFJ]

I have spent the last two years on a Timbersled and ridden everything else currently out there besides a Yeti. Needless to say, me and my group will all be on MotoTrax next year. I also agree that a 120 is the way to go.

 

[M5-]

The absolute beauty of the internet is it's always easy to find someone who's willing to tell you how to spend your money. Go with your own gut, if you've done your homework.

M5

 

[Rush44]

Every group that I've talked to that did demo's on Mototrax with Timbersleds in the mix have all agreed that the TS pretty much stomps on the Mototrax. These aren't newbies or people who can't ride... real riders with real reliable input. With the great suspension changes coming in 2017 it is an easy choice.... TS 120 for you.

Notice how all the people recommending Mototrax so far have like a dozen or so posts and just joined the forum within the last 6 months when Mototrax was released. Such a coincidence huh?

 

[Norma Stitz]

Every group that I've talked to that did demo's on Mototrax with Timbersleds in the mix have all agreed that the TS pretty much stomps on the Mototrax. These aren't newbies or people who can't ride... real riders with real reliable input. With the great suspension changes coming in 2017 it is an easy choice.... TS 120 for you.

Notice how all the people recommending Mototrax so far have like a dozen or so posts and just joined the forum within the last 6 months when Mototrax was released. Such a coincidence huh?

MIND = BLOWN! Conspiracy theory?! I love it! Can you elaborate a little on the meaning of "stomps on"? I need more specifics as to how or what the TS does better. Of course, another main problem is that we can't truly compare any of the kits because they are all going to be significantly new designs by the start of next year, so we are really talking about projected performance not actual testable opinions unfortunately.

Mototrax seems convinced that a side pivoting track helps groomed trail performance. They also seem to think their ski design will help in this area as well. Criticisms about their ski being too narrow seem to have been addressed, I think it's 9" going forward.

They also claim to have a pretty big weight savings over TS.

They are reducing their track lug height from 2.5" to 2" on all models which seems significant to me, being a complete idiot on the subject.

What are the suspension changes next year on TS and why?

Thanks to all for the input.

 

[Rush44]

Here is some input from one of the Mototrax riders whom I trust:

"The good:
The kit seems fairly efficient, probably due to the lightweight yeti track. It spins up pretty fast.
It seems pretty balanced even though there is a large distance between the tip of the paddles and the bike frame (like 4” compared to the ts which nearly rubs on most bikes)
It transfers weight really well, you can lift the ski off a small bump and hold a wheelie for a while.

The Bad:
The ski is a joke, it’s only slightly better than a 6” wide Simmons on the road and way worse off-trail. It doesn’t hold a line and submarines when you go downhill or land a jump.
On a bumpy trail the skid would soak up about 5 bumps and then rebound violently. Like wants to throw you over the bars and pile-drive you into the ground type of rebound. It’s super sketchy.
When you hit a jump the skid rebounds so fast that you’re forced to land ski first just hoping you don’t go over the bars. Landing ski-first with a narrow ski that likes to wash out is a bad thing.
Off-trail it does ok until you try to climb something technical then all that weight transfer that I mentioned above fights you. It wheelies to the point where you have to let off, then you trench in and stick it when you try to get going again.
Downhill turns just don’t happen with the 2016 ski. You’ll find yourself face down in the snow if you try.
I don’t think you can actually lift the kit from the rear bumper, the whole tunnel/bumper assembly flexes a ton when you try. I was afraid to break it, so I didn’t push it too much.
The tunnel/bumper is narrower than the track, so you’re constantly being pelted with snow.
The plastic on the tunnel is poorly attached and rattles/vibrates loudly. ALL DAY LONG.
No gas can rack? Packing gas is a must for most people."

I've also been told that the Mototrax just can't hang with the TS in the trees... the TS pretty much walks away from it. The Yeti track spins up faster than the Convex on the TS mostly because it's not very stiff and doesn't grab traction like the Convex. Yes the track is lighter, but that doesn't necessarily translate to better backcountry performance.

 

[DenverSnowBike]

Mototrax seems convinced that a side pivoting track helps groomed trail performance. They also seem to think their ski design will help in this area as well. Criticisms about their ski being too narrow seem to have been addressed, I think it's 9" going forward.

Who gives a crap about groomed trail performance lol

 

[Moto4Life]

Every group that I've talked to that did demo's on Mototrax with Timbersleds in the mix have all agreed that the TS pretty much stomps on the Mototrax. These aren't newbies or people who can't ride... real riders with real reliable input. With the great suspension changes coming in 2017 it is an easy choice.... TS 120 for you.

Notice how all the people recommending Mototrax so far have like a dozen or so posts and just joined the forum within the last 6 months when Mototrax was released. Such a coincidence huh?

I personally have never heard of any Timbersled stomping a MotoTrax but with that said you should come out to Burke this Sunday Rush and ride the new 17 model. The improvements are huge and to this date not one person has claimed ANY brand of kit is better than the 17 MotoTrax. I can talk all day long why it is better but its much easier just to get you on the seat and prove it.

Also there are only three user names associated with MotoTrax on the forums and none have posted here, the people above are either customer, or have demo'd our kits somewhere.

Our users are:
Moto4Life
MotoTrax LLC
Snowhawk Jockey

 

[Kootenay Snowbikes]

Your bike you have selected (2012 Husqvarna 511)may limit your options of what kit is compatible.
the 11-13 husqvarnas required a different subframe on the timbersleds due to husky CTS system (Countershaft sprocket being in line with swingarm pivot). Id be surprised if any of the other manufacturers make something compatible with your bike. I wouldn't be surprised if TS stopped making that Subframe as well although I'm not sure on that.
Good Luck!

 

[dieselpower]

Why no Yeti

I'm curious why the Yeti got eliminated, other than price.

The Yeti flat out destroys the Timbersled pre-TSS across the board particularly in the heavy snow in the PNW.

I'm going to guess TSS vs RSS is a wash, stiffer track on the 2017 yet's will help with spring riding but its by far the market leader.

 

[MFJ]

Every group that I've talked to that did demo's on Mototrax with Timbersleds in the mix have all agreed that the TS pretty much stomps on the Mototrax. These aren't newbies or people who can't ride... real riders with real reliable input. With the great suspension changes coming in 2017 it is an easy choice.... TS 120 for you.

Notice how all the people recommending Mototrax so far have like a dozen or so posts and just joined the forum within the last 6 months when Mototrax was released. Such a coincidence huh?

To suggest that the people who ride or post about MotoTrax are newbies and that they can't ride is disrespectful. I am a newbie to this forum, not snowbikes & am in no way shape or form associated with MotoTrax. I have been on everything from an Explorer to 2moto, Timbersled, MotoTrax, Snowtech, and CMX. Bought a Timbersled two years ago because it was better than the 2Moto and Explorer. Now after 2 years on the Timbersled, I am buying a MotoTrax because I feel it is better than a Timbersled. This thread was started to get peoples opinions on the kits and I gave mine. If you think I don't know how to ride or provide valuable input then lets go riding together sometime and find out.

 

[Rush44]

To suggest that the people who ride or post about MotoTrax are newbies and that they can't ride is disrespectful. I am a newbie to this forum, not snowbikes & am in no way shape or form associated with MotoTrax. I have been on everything from an Explorer to 2moto, Timbersled, MotoTrax, Snowtech, and CMX. Bought a Timbersled two years ago because it was better than the 2Moto and Explorer. Now after 2 years on the Timbersled, I am buying a MotoTrax because I feel it is better than a Timbersled. This thread was started to get peoples opinions on the kits and I gave mine. If you think I don't know how to ride or provide valuable input then lets go riding together sometime and find out.

I do actually owe you a clarification on this. What we are seeing around here lately are lots of review posts from people who haven't spent a season or two on the kits. It wasn't directed at you personally, just at the current trend that seems to be forming. The review I posted was from someone who has been in the game from nearly the beginning, has ridden just about everything out there, and whom I feel gives a fully honest review because he and his crew really put the kits through their paces. When I say paces I mean full on, full out, pounding rides.

So while I don't know you and how or what you ride please know that I am not directing my post at you specifically. I will certainly ride with you. I'm over here in the Flathead so next time you are in the area bring that kit over and we can go tear it up.

 

[Norma Stitz]

Here is some input from one of the Mototrax riders whom I trust:

"The good:
The kit seems fairly efficient, probably due to the lightweight yeti track. It spins up pretty fast.
It seems pretty balanced even though there is a large distance between the tip of the paddles and the bike frame (like 4” compared to the ts which nearly rubs on most bikes)
It transfers weight really well, you can lift the ski off a small bump and hold a wheelie for a while.

The Bad:
The ski is a joke, it’s only slightly better than a 6” wide Simmons on the road and way worse off-trail. It doesn’t hold a line and submarines when you go downhill or land a jump.
On a bumpy trail the skid would soak up about 5 bumps and then rebound violently. Like wants to throw you over the bars and pile-drive you into the ground type of rebound. It’s super sketchy.
When you hit a jump the skid rebounds so fast that you’re forced to land ski first just hoping you don’t go over the bars. Landing ski-first with a narrow ski that likes to wash out is a bad thing.
Off-trail it does ok until you try to climb something technical then all that weight transfer that I mentioned above fights you. It wheelies to the point where you have to let off, then you trench in and stick it when you try to get going again.
Downhill turns just don’t happen with the 2016 ski. You’ll find yourself face down in the snow if you try.
I don’t think you can actually lift the kit from the rear bumper, the whole tunnel/bumper assembly flexes a ton when you try. I was afraid to break it, so I didn’t push it too much.
The tunnel/bumper is narrower than the track, so you’re constantly being pelted with snow.
The plastic on the tunnel is poorly attached and rattles/vibrates loudly. ALL DAY LONG.
No gas can rack? Packing gas is a must for most people."

I've also been told that the Mototrax just can't hang with the TS in the trees... the TS pretty much walks away from it. The Yeti track spins up faster than the Convex on the TS mostly because it's not very stiff and doesn't grab traction like the Convex. Yes the track is lighter, but that doesn't necessarily translate to better backcountry performance.

This is great info. Thank you. Not sure how much will apply to the 2017 kit however. I know they do have a gas jug mounting now. Also regarding flex and durability, is is where I feel the two year warranty speaks for itself. If I break it because it's too weak, they are going to replace it. So, they seem confident that won't happen. However I agree, it doesn't look super strong.

The ski issue seems to have been addressed, or at least attempted to have been, and it seems they can mount any ski to their mounting so that may not be a deal beaker in the end.

Again, thanks a ton for your input.

 

[Norma Stitz]

Who gives a crap about groomed trail performance lol

Point taken, however I feel (having never done this that ultimately there will emerge a design that will work well on groomed trails. I guess it matters to me because I can forsee a common condition on our snow that will be crusty or hard pack and may necessitate a kit that will track well in that condition. I'm just trying to sort out opinions from people in places like Utah where snow is so light and deep it might make the operation parameters completely different than I'm going to see here.

 

[Norma Stitz]

I personally have never heard of any Timbersled stomping a MotoTrax but with that said you should come out to Burke this Sunday Rush and ride the new 17 model. The improvements are huge and to this date not one person has claimed ANY brand of kit is better than the 17 MotoTrax. I can talk all day long why it is better but its much easier just to get you on the seat and prove it.

Also there are only three user names associated with MotoTrax on the forums and none have posted here, the people above are either customer, or have demo'd our kits somewhere.

Our users are:
Moto4Life
MotoTrax LLC
Snowhawk Jockey

I would prefer to ride one to test, but that seems an impossibility for me now that it's April so I would love the talk up for sure!

 

[Norma Stitz]

Your bike you have selected (2012 Husqvarna 511)may limit your options of what kit is compatible.
the 11-13 husqvarnas required a different subframe on the timbersleds due to husky CTS system (Countershaft sprocket being in line with swingarm pivot). Id be surprised if any of the other manufacturers make something compatible with your bike. I wouldn't be surprised if TS stopped making that Subframe as well although I'm not sure on that.
Good Luck!

Mototrax mentioned that if they didn't have a mounting system for this bike that they would work with me on making it fit. Again, this speaks volumes about their willingness to work with customers and I appreciate that. I a fabricator and I have some tools, so I might be in a better position to make a non fitting fit kit happen, but I can't go it alone due to inexperience.

 

[Norma Stitz]

I'm curious why the Yeti got eliminated, other than price.

The Yeti flat out destroys the Timbersled pre-TSS across the board particularly in the heavy snow in the PNW.

I'm going to guess TSS vs RSS is a wash, stiffer track on the 2017 yet's will help with spring riding but its by far the market leader.

Well, it might seem silly but it's mostly aesthetic. I've worked with carbon many years, and as such I'm repulsed by carbon in many uses. I also find the shape they created for the tunnel to be very unpleasing to the eye, and despite being able to repair carbon, I'm a welder and doing repairs and mods on metal frames is much more easy and appealing to me. I also find the clear drive cover to be pretentious, and it's also considerably more expensive. I'm not paying extra for carbon, that's just me.

Finally, from a theory point of view, it would seem that yeti is designed for the snow they get, lots and lots, and I'm pulled toward a more local supplier simply due to the fact that since I don't know jack that ,aye someone in Idaho would make a kit that works in our conditions somewhat better. This may be totally off base, but I'm all alone over here. Being honest.

Can you elaborate on "completely destroys"?