Gear up Alpha

sno*jet

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What does that have to do with gearing?
I thought I explained. you gear and clutch for one condition then it suddenly changes under you. happens a lot around here. often the sleds who can't pull it are the ones who tap out at the frozen wind blown tops. or icy chutes. clutched and geared for awesome stump pulling wheelies and deep tree bouncing. see ya down there :)
 

kanedog

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I thought I explained. you gear and clutch for one condition then it suddenly changes under you. happens a lot around here. often the sleds who can't pull it are the ones who tap out at the frozen wind blown tops. or icy chutes. clutched and geared for awesome stump pulling wheelies and deep tree bouncing. see ya down there :)
What sleds have you seen “tap out?” This would be interesting to know as most are geared way too high.
 

kanedog

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Haha, naw,
I am quite happy with the stock gearing on the Alpha.
Performs very well off trail and still books down the trail to get back to the truck.
It's the best all around performance stock sled i have ever ridden.
Could it be better, sure.... everything could be improved but....... the lord giveth and the lord taketh!
Gain here and lose there...... pick ur poison...
Happy sledding.
Meh, cool thing is, geared and clutched correctly, both of those can be so much better at the same time.
 

Sage Crusher

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Kanedog,
yeah to much bite from the PC track and soft secondary- but a full shift!!LOL... She should be better now with the more efficient secondary tune up freshly installed.
2.63 gearing on the alpha 19/50.. Hmm shift out 1:1 is had to get in the deep.. I don't giver a R/A on the trail speeds- anything much over 50 and the track will be giving you less paddles eventually .. We tend to putt out and let the parking lot racers pass us by..LOL !!!
 
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Octanee

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I guess a basic principle of gearing and how your getting more track speed for the hills is your taking the engine torque/speed and adding to it/modifying it. the clutches are obviously to some degree an "infinite" /variable ratio, Then you go to your gearing, You're going to edge towards more torque, but you give up speed, Or more speed for less torque output. so that's where the gains can be had with gaining some additional track speed, utilizing the clutch sheaves more than before lets it work the ratio's more finer as they do their job which also will be easier on the belt.
 

kanedog

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Kanedog,
yeah to much bite from the PC track and soft secondary- but a full shift!!LOL... She should be better now with the more efficient secondary tune up freshly installed.
2.63 gearing on the alpha 19/50.. Hmm shift out 1:1 is had to get in the deep.. I don't giver a R/A on the trail speeds- anything much over 50 and the track will be giving you less paddles eventually .. We tend to putt out and let the parking lot racers pass us by..LOL !!!
I know right? It’s kinda like a victory to celebrate full shift out cuz it takes a lot of work to get it there in the mountains.
 
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I have taken your advice. I went from 2.3, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 2.8, 3.05, 3.22, 3.46 and finally 3.65. I’m at 3.65 gear ratio with a 174” na 800. It eats turbos in the deep. On hardpack it’s hard to overcome the sheer power of the turbo.

Not a lot of difference from 2.7-3.2. It really came alive at 3.30+. A total of 70 gear and clutching changes to get there. Was a long 3 years.

Loving the doubters. It’s great.
So what gears and chain gets you that ratio on an Alpha?

Seems a little extreme to go all the way to 3.65. Is there compromise in the middle?
 

kanedog

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So what gears and chain gets you that ratio on an Alpha?

Seems a little extreme to go all the way to 3.2. Is there compromise in the middle?
Good catch! Yes, 3.65 for a 165” will be too low. I have a belt drive, Alpha 22top gear, 72bottom gear. 3.2 was the lowest that will fit without chaincase mods.

I geared higher and the clutches just made heat. Then I slowly worked my way down(numerically higher) to 3.65(not the alpha). Every gear change it kept getting better and better.
The compromise in the middle isn’t as much as you would think. There’s a point from about 2.7 to 3.1 where there’s not much change in performance. The performance really started coming in at 3.2 gear ratio so I kept going lower until gearing changes were not physically possible on the sled. I started at 3.2 on the Alpha.
That was a hybrid story between the Alpha and gearing an 800 na Etec 174” runs a 3.65, 22/84, 8 tooth drivers. You can get the gist of the gearing experiment I went thru.
This isn’t new but it is out of the box thinking. 99% of people don’t think outside of the box. I gave up explaining so now I just tell my story and hopefully someone can learn a bit and benefit from my experience. Cheers
 
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Feb 22, 2009
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Great point! 3.65 for a 165” will be too low. I have a belt drive, Alpha 22top gear, 72bottom gear. 3.2 was the lowest that will fit without chaincase mods.

I geared higher and the clutches just made heat. Then I slowly worked my way up to up to 3.65(not the alpha). Every gear change it kept getting better and better.
The compromise in the middle isn’t as much as you would think. There’s a point from about 2.7 to 3.1 where there’s not much change in performance. The performance really started coming in at 3.2 gear ratio so I kept going lower until gearing changes were not physically possible on the sled. I started at 3.2 on the Alpha.
That was a hybrid story between the Alpha gearing My 800 na Etec 174” runs a 3.65, 22/84, 8 tooth drivers. You can get the gist of the gearing experiment I went thru.
This isn’t new but it is out of the box thinking. 99% of people don’t think outside of the box. I gave up explaining so now I just tell my story and hopefully someone can learn a bit and benefit from my experience. Cheers
I like this one KaneDog! I will join you outside the box. I’m on a NA 165” Alpha with a Specialty/C3 belt drive, what’s your recommendation for a starting point?

22/75 will get me 59.74MPH @ full shift on a 3.40 Ratio is that a good starting point or would you recommend to go lower yet? Will that combo fit? What about belt length? Did you have to go to a longer belt drive belt?


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kanedog

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I like this one KaneDog! I will join you outside the box. I’m on a NA 165” Alpha with a Specialty/C3 belt drive, what’s your recommendation for a starting point?

22/75 will get me 59.74MPH @ full shift on a 3.40 Ratio is that a good starting point or would you recommend to go lower yet? Will that combo fit? What about belt length? Did you have to go to a longer belt drive belt?


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Start at 22/72. 72 is about max size on the bottom. If you can get a bigger bottom gear to fit, then yes, the bigger the better. You’re right. It’s way better to start super low and work your way back than to have to modify stuff again to fit bigger bottom gear. Love it. I’ll check the belt length for you. Yes, it needs a longer belt.
 

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Feb 22, 2009
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Thanks!! That’s a huge gear on that XM, not much left there to go any bigger haha I like it. Ima going to go ahead and get some special gears coming and join the wise KaneDog outside the box. Any others care to join? You can find KaneDog and Ezmoke in the hills we be the ones stuck in 1st gear blowing pst your turbo like your standing still while your doing a wheelie trencher

Doo you have any pics of the big gearing on the CAT KaneDog? Let me know on that belt size please




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thump426er

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Been thinking of stepping on this band wagon and checking it out. But I’ll need a belt drive first,,,, crap. Want to get as much as I can with what’s left on the table with gearing and clutches with this sled.
 

kanedog

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Thanks!! That’s a huge gear on that XM, not much left there to go any bigger haha I like it. Ima going to go ahead and get some special gears coming and join the wise KaneDog outside the box. Any others care to join? You can find KaneDog and Ezmoke in the hills we be the ones stuck in 1st gear blowing pst your turbo like your standing still while your doing a wheelie trencher

Doo you have any pics of the big gearing on the CAT KaneDog? Let me know on that belt size please




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The pic is the Cat ez smoke. It’s a 72t gear. I wasn’t ambitious to machine out the chaincase or modify for a bigger gear.

There is a sweet spot when gearing low. If gearing goes too low, the clutches will just be locked out and create track spin. If it’s a tad high, it won’t hit lockout and you don’t get to use full shift out or over rev. Most guys miss the spot and give up in disgust. Sometimes it just like a 1/2 tooth needed. It’s that small of a window. It still needs to back shift and this is what gets the sled more traction. The goal is have a 6” trench when your buddies have a 2’ trench.

I hope you can use an old school Cat roller or an Stm copy of that clutch. That’s a 15% advantage right there.
 
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kanedog

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Draw sharpie lines and post pics of wear with peak RPM noted.
Not an Alpha but it’s 8000rpm. It’s almost there. Just a tad higher on the sheave and she be good.
C65548A4-36E7-4381-80F5-62F05821D56D.jpeg
 
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kanedog

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100 rpm more and your doo will... POOP.
btw add more weight. you only want 7950 for that pig.
I’m on it. I made a change last time out and it threw off the rpm by 100. It was on clicker 1. I’m at 10g pin weight. Gonna do 11g. Hopefully will hit click 2, 7950. Sure noticed the difference at 8000vs 79-7950. You can see on the top the sheave the effect of not quite enough weight and lack of grunt above 7950. It sooooooo close now I can taste it.
 
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rulonjj

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The pic is the Cat ez smoke. It’s a 72t gear. I wasn’t ambitious to machine out the chaincase or modify for a bigger gear.

There is a sweet spot when gearing low. If gearing goes too low, the clutches will just be locked out and create track spin. If it’s a tad high, it won’t hit lockout and you don’t get to use full shift out or over rev. Most guys miss the spot and give up in disgust. Sometimes it just like a 1/2 tooth needed. It’s that small of a window. It still needs to back shift and this is what gets the sled more traction. The goal is have a 6” trench when your buddies have a 2’ trench.

I hope you can use an old school Cat roller or an Stm copy of that clutch. That’s a 15% advantage right there.
So you’re saying that gearing down reduces trenching?? Never heard that before.
 
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