Clutch recall

[Hawkster]

Kind of makes you wonder why Doo has that chunk of rubber on the lid of the primary now doesn't it

 

[BeartoothBaron]

Sounds like the failures are creeping back in.
I took a Slow Motion video of my P22 while doing track alignment today and you can clearly see the tip of the clutch flailing around like a wet noodle.
Some of that was probably video effects and maybe some the whole motor moving around.
But I am convinced they have a harmonic or torsional vibration at some frequency order that is breaking the bolt.

Same situation as they had in WWII when the big radials were getting bigger and more powerful and the propeller shafts were coming off and the cranks breaking. Uncontrolled torsional vibration. It still happens on aircraft engine when the dampers fail- motor comes apart.

It is going to need some kind of harmonic treatment to kill the problem. Not just a better bolt.
I think I'll replace my bolt anyway.

I found a pretty in-depth technical publication talking about the time, money, and engineering that went into making the R-2800 reliable. It was pretty technical, so I couldn't follow everything, but I did get a good sense of the game of whack-a-mole they played trying to balance that engine out. Eventually they did, and it ended up being a great engine. I'm not sure what the rest of the story on the P-22 will end up being. It seems like it needs a major re-think, at a minimum; for now there's just no good reason not to go back to the P-85 until they figure it out.

 

[shattuck]

I found a pretty in-depth technical publication talking about the time, money, and engineering that went into making the R-2800 reliable. It was pretty technical, so I couldn't follow everything, but I did get a good sense of the game of whack-a-mole they played trying to balance that engine out. Eventually they did, and it ended up being a great engine. I'm not sure what the rest of the story on the P-22 will end up being. It seems like it needs a major re-think, at a minimum; for now there's just no good reason not to go back to the P-85 until they figure it out.

Even if they get the P-22 perfect and it has a 0% failure rate all you gained is you don’t have to adjust your belt. It doesn't perform as good as the p-85 anyway

 

[JH@CM]

But I am convinced they have a harmonic or torsional vibration at some frequency order that is breaking the bolt.

I too am convinced that the primary bolt isn't the problem, but rather a secondary symptom of the primary clutches not being balanced or appropriately pressed/seated/happy on the crankshaft.

 

[BeartoothBaron]

Even if they get the P-22 perfect and it has a 0% failure rate all you gained is you don’t have to adjust your belt. It doesn't perform as good as the p-85 anyway

Yeah, someone correct me/us if we're wrong, but no setting belt deflection is the only advantage I know of. The P-85 has a smaller hub, which effectively gives you a lower gear at engagement - if you set belt deflection correctly. The other thing about the P-22 is it's cheaply made (in China, I think). The P-85 isn't perfect either, but it's better made and performs better; the only excuses Polaris has are that some people are too lazy to set their clutch up correctly, and that the P-22 is cheaper to them.

 

[RBalazs]

Yeah, someone correct me/us if we're wrong, but no setting belt deflection is the only advantage I know of. The P-85 has a smaller hub, which effectively gives you a lower gear at engagement - if you set belt deflection correctly. The other thing about the P-22 is it's cheaply made (in China, I think). The P-85 isn't perfect either, but it's better made and performs better; the only excuses Polaris has are that some people are too lazy to set their clutch up correctly, and that the P-22 is cheaper to them.

Probably and for those that don’t know how to adjust their belt tension correctly, I pity the fool It’s extremely easy and does not have to be done often, but should be checked occasionally.

 

[Teth-Air]

Yeah, someone correct me/us if we're wrong, but no setting belt deflection is the only advantage I know of. The P-85 has a smaller hub, which effectively gives you a lower gear at engagement - if you set belt deflection correctly. The other thing about the P-22 is it's cheaply made (in China, I think). The P-85 isn't perfect either, but it's better made and performs better; the only excuses Polaris has are that some people are too lazy to set their clutch up correctly, and that the P-22 is cheaper to them.

The other advantage of the P22 was supposed to be bigger bushing area, and the bushings are farther apart for more stability. Looks good on paper.

 

[BeartoothBaron]

The other advantage of the P22 was supposed to be bigger bushing area, and the bushings are farther apart for more stability. Looks good on paper.

You're right - I remember now reading that somewhere. The P-85 was already getting marginal on 800s and 850s - I think that's why the 9R and Boost have the P-22 - and a misaligned clutch would run hot and wear out prematurely. They coulda just reworked the basic P-85 design though, seems like a better bet than the one step forward, two steps back with the P-22.

 

[Teth-Air]

You're right - I remember now reading that somewhere. The P-85 was already getting marginal on 800s and 850s - I think that's why the 9R and Boost have the P-22 - and a misaligned clutch would run hot and wear out prematurely. They coulda just reworked the basic P-85 design though, seems like a better bet than the one step forward, two steps back with the P-22.

Print of your statement here and read it again in a few months and see if you were seeing the future.

 

[RBalazs]

The other advantage of the P22 was supposed to be bigger bushing area, and the bushings are farther apart for more stability. Looks good on paper.

It was just a catch 22 wasn’t it?

 

[Tjyak50]

It also seems like Errbody does bow ties and jumps and backflips anymore with all this new horsepowers…. Life for sleds is no easier

 

[kanedog]

Give me your dog immediately.

 

[turboless terry]

Probably and for those that don’t know how to adjust their belt tension correctly, I pity the fool It’s extremely easy and does not have to be done often, but should be checked occasionally.

It's not as easy as not doing it. That's what I told my dad on his safety chains for gooseneck. He said they were easy to hook up. I told him i will guarantee they aren't as easy as not hooking them up.
My bomb proof clutch is finally here. Get that on and i can finally start riding it again. Hope they put the handlebar hooks on. Thats probably harder than belt deflection since there's two.

 

[kanedog]

Post a pic of bomb proof clutch

 

[koolaid]

It also seems like Errbody does bow ties and jumps and backflips anymore with all this new horsepowers…. Life for sleds is no easier

They can have all the tree ballet stuff, honestly it is not as fun or technical as climbing up a drainage or chute. Believe me when I tell you there is a whole new generation who are afraid to get vertical with their sleds. It still takes plenty of talent to get to the top of the mountain.

 

[Empire087]

They can have all the tree ballet stuff, honestly it is not as fun or technical as climbing up a drainage or chute. Believe me when I tell you there is a whole new generation who are afraid to get vertical with their sleds. It still takes plenty of talent to get to the top of the mountain.

Its simply another skill, its all fun imo.

Also, it IS nice to not have to constantly adjust your belt tension, and one less thing to keep an eye on. Problem for me is: it comes without the reliability of the standard clutch which is a big bummer. Hoping I frag mine within my warranty and get a new one. The other thing is, by all technicality, it should allow you to maintain the lowest gear ration possible upon clutch engagement, which is nice.

 

[Chadly]

They can have all the tree ballet stuff, honestly it is not as fun or technical as climbing up a drainage or chute. Believe me when I tell you there is a whole new generation who are afraid to get vertical with their sleds. It still takes plenty of talent to get to the top of the mountain.

There are plenty of people who do both. You sound like a liberal. If you don't do what I like to do you suck

 

[mountaincat 800]

There are plenty of people who do both. You sound like a liberal. If you don't do what I like to do you suck

Really?! Pot have you met the kittle?

 

[koolaid]

tree ballet. verb - a riding technique where the snowmobiler will thrust his partner (sled) upwards followed by a series of twists and turns often repeatedly surrounded by a tight stand of trees.

 

[kanedog]

tree ballet. verb - a riding technique where the snowmobiler will thrust his partner (sled) upwards followed by a series of twists and turns often repeatedly surrounded by a tight stand of trees. A video with terrible music drowning out the sweet engine noise will be posted.

Haha