Need real WA State experience riding your Summit or PRO-RMK on trails (significantly)

[laxdad]

Im posting this here, because i am looking specifically for opinions and experience from those of us who live in Washington.

I will be buying a new sled in March and am trying to decide between brands, but also if I should go with say a Summit 146/154 vs Renegade Backcountry X 146.

Ive talked to I90 and Ride, but neither carry any renegades and rarely sell them.

My dilema is that i now mainly ride with my Wife and my son so I probably spend 50% on the trails, 40% boondocking and 10% in the steep hills. I primarily sled around Taneum, but also hit Teanaway / Salmon La Sac as well.

What I am really looking for, is for real world experience from those of you who spend a lot of time on the groomed trails with your Summit or PRO-RMK.
How is it?
Do you have over heating issues?
Hows the handling?
Anybody have a BCX and use it in the powder?

The couple of guys ive talked to up and around 5 corners (PRO-RMK riders Mainly) say it absolutely sucks, but since Sportland really only sells the PRO-RMK they just deal with it. Ill be spending close to $15,000 so im trying to find something i just dont have to "deal with".

My reality is i no longer spend much time up at Gallagher or Baker due to a worn out body, but in my mind im still 21 and love to get around the trees boondocking (especially as my son gets more confidence). For those of you that know of the Woods & Steele area the most hill climbing i have done this season was up the hills in and out of the burn from 2014.

Ive tried posting elsewhere, but i consistently get the NE opinion and I am really looking for the NW real life experience.

Lastly, I will be snowchecking this year and havent 100% decided between Polaris or Ski-Doo yet, but that's a whole nother thread...LOL

 

[SkyRider800]

I ride those areas on 14 PRO RMK and do not have issues. I run Ice-age scratchers. Im not much of a trail rider but you have to ride to a point. I jump off where I can to kick some fresh snow up but usually enjoy looking for little slivers to poach off the trail as I would prefer not to be on it anyways. I watch my temps on the trail but don't seem to have issues keeping it around 127 to 129. I find it a little tippy coming out of hard corners but I bought it because it's a mountain sled.

I cant speak to the Gen 4 skidoo or Axys but we have a 15 XM that I think preforms great on the trail for a mountain sled. If cooling is a concern of yours take a look into the SKS model RMK.

 

[line8]

I ride the Teanaway a lot-Middle and North and in between. Pro needs the scratchers down quite a bit if just riding groomed. Cools quick though if you dip off into the soft snow if it's there.


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[Vincenthdfan]

When I'm riding my 155" RMK Pro with my wife, we stick pretty much exclusively to groomed trails.

We run scratchers down the entire time and my sled runs consistently 127 degrees without diving off trail...the scratchers are the key.

I also replaced the ported snowflap on mine with the solid flap from the Assault model ($35)...that dropped it from 128 to the 127 degrees I consistently see now.

It handles fantastic as well...I really enjoy this sled.

 

[Vincenthdfan]

As stated earlier in the thread, you can also buy the RMK (Non-Pro) model.

It has the cooler in the front bulkhead area, has a traditional chaincase, non-ported snowflap, and is less expensive.

Much less prone to the higher temps because of the bulkhead cooler.

 

[laxdad]

Im not overly worried about saving $1,000 by going cheap. I learned my lesson there when i bought the 2008 Nytro instead of spending a tad more for the upgraded geometry of the 09. $2,000 later and hundreds of hours fixing the darting issues got me to realize that was a futile excersize in being cheap.


How is the handling on the trails with the narrower front end?

Can I ask why Pro-RMK instead of Summit? Is it solely because of dealer and location?

 

[Chadly]

Ski Doo's don't get hot like Polaris. Never in my life have I seen Ski Doo guys pulling over because their sled gets hot. Polaris definitely can't handle a newbie rider that isn't on and off the throttle making the track spin. They get hot instantly on hard pack. If you are 50% trail riding I wouldn't even consider a Pro. Not sure if the Axys is any better...

 

[Drewd]

While not WA riding, I do ride on trail with the wife regularly in CO with my Pro. It runs a consistent 132 deg F with scratchers down, an IQ snowflap, and bogie wheels on the skid to preserve hyfax life.

I'd find a sled with a bulkhead cooler or buy an aftermarket tunnel cooler for a Pro. As for handling on the trail, its ok as long as the trail is straight.

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Standard rmk or sks, no belt drive and extra cooler, otherwise basically same as a pro. Rode yesterday on fairly icy groomed, ran on the warm side at 127. The guys that have pros that I usually ride with would have been running 135 to 140 yesterday in the in these conditions.
Can't really speak for handling, as I've never really ridden a "trail" sled but they do just fine cruising down the groomed, plus the off trail handling in my opinion outweighs the somewhat lacking groomed ability

 

[FlyingW]

I would say run either a regular RMK with the extra cooler or a Summit. I have a Pro and a Summit and the Summit has the front cooler and makes all the difference in the world over the Pro which even with scratchers down if you aren't providing cooling at slower speeds is going to require a little extra attention.

Some in my area have snowchecked the RMK in the past to get the extra front cooler and could get the same shocks and some of the other features the Pro had when snowchecking. They didn't get the belt drive but felt the front cooler was more important than the belt drive.

I have also had an earlier Renegade and a buddy had the next generation Renegade. They were fun and would slice and dice up a trail but in those days we didn't do the sidehill boondocking like done today so the extra ski width would be working against you as well as not as high of track lug. Ours had the coupled suspension which helped keep the skis down on corners under power unlike the mountain sleds.

The Backcountry X Renegade has the t-motion so might as well focus on a Summit or RMK for better resale down the road for you. The ski width can be changed with spacers so a little wider for when you want to be on the trails. They may not have the trail manners of more trail based sleds but to enjoy our Washington trails they will do just fine and still have the ability for the deep snow. Enjoy what you get.

 

[blk9038]

I would say run either a regular RMK with the extra cooler or a Summit. I have a Pro and a Summit and the Summit has the front cooler and makes all the difference in the world over the Pro which even with scratchers down if you aren't providing cooling at slower speeds is going to require a little extra attention.

Some in my area have snowchecked the RMK in the past to get the extra front cooler and could get the same shocks and some of the other features the Pro had when snowchecking. They didn't get the belt drive but felt the front cooler was more important than the belt drive.

I have also had an earlier Renegade and a buddy had the next generation Renegade. They were fun and would slice and dice up a trail but in those days we didn't do the sidehill boondocking like done today so the extra ski width would be working against you as well as not as high of track lug. Ours had the coupled suspension which helped keep the skis down on corners under power unlike the mountain sleds.

The Backcountry X Renegade has the t-motion so might as well focus on a Summit or RMK for better resale down the road for you. The ski width can be changed with spacers so a little wider for when you want to be on the trails. They may not have the trail manners of more trail based sleds but to enjoy our Washington trails they will do just fine and still have the ability for the deep snow. Enjoy what you get.

this is correct as in 3500 miles on 13 xm my friends 13 pro we are always stopping to cool it off as no coolers on rear of sled, just got the new 17 summit 165 and with the new built in scratchers it cools great also, but the other rmk's with rear cooling work good too, think there is only 5 to 8 lbs diff on rmk not pro series, if going Polaris go with more cooling expecially if trail riding.

 

[WHEREDAFUGAWEE]

I added scratchers, a must, to my Pro RMK 800 and replaced the back factory snow flap with a solid snow flap. I run 128' on the groomed roads and I ride a lot of groomed roads in Greenwater over to my cabin in Cliffdell. I also added an additive to my coolant that I use in my dirt bike radiator. The additive is called Water Wetter and it reduces the coolant temp by a few degrees.

 

[motodmast]

not sure if i can post links or not, but a polaris switchback assault is what you are after. go with the 2.0" track

http://www.polaris.com/en-us/snowmobiles/800-switchback-assault-144

 

[laxdad]

thanks

not sure if i can post links or not, but a polaris switchback assault is what you are after. go with the 2.0" track

http://www.polaris.com/en-us/snowmobiles/800-switchback-assault-144

Appreciate all the experience and everyone chiming in.

I have been doing some research on the SB Assault vs the RMK SKS vs Skidoo Renegade Backcountry X.

They all seem to be very close to the same dimensions, weight, ski stance distance, etc. The SB Assault and the Doo BCX both come in a 144/146 and the RMK SKS has the 155.

I am hoping for someone to chime in who actually has one to see if the extra 2" in ski width really does make a difference in boondocking and then is flotation really drastically different between say the PRO vs SKS/Assault or the Summit vs BCX.

I understand the longer the better for the POW, but I also know that for years back in the early 2000 I rode a RMK 137 all over Gallagher, Baker & Blewitt and I had that thing places I wouldn't even go now on a 155...lol I guess that's the difference between being young with no worries and experienced with responsibilities.


Im heading to I90 on Saturday and Pierres to go over options again and see if I cant finally make a decision. Last night I went out to Monroe and looked at the M8000 MC. Looks like a great machine with good reviews, but its extremely narrow and has the smallest cooler, plus I really dont like the 2018 colors they are showing. if I wanted a grey and green mountain sled ill go buy a 2015 Summit.

 

[Troy Magrum]

Ive been on all three sleds and prefer the Polaris for all around stability. The cats work well for the type of riding your talking about. they seemed more bouncy and fun off trail but more work. I felt like I had to work more on the skidoo going down the trail. As for over heating, I never have a problem with the scratchers down on the pro or axis. The sks is the way to go if you go Polaris because of the cooling up front. If you can, try to demo the sleds that you are most interested in. Good luck

 

[sno*jet]

you def would not want a skidoo with the teeter-totter suspension for trails.
and the cat has short tunnel cooler but huge bulkhead cooler. with just one scratcher down it wont heat up even with a 3" track. but you dont want a 3" either. nothing too tall and skinny like all of the big new mountain sleds these days.
i would think 600. plenty of power if youre not trying to put a high mark.

 

[laxdad]

Ive been on all three sleds and prefer the Polaris for all around stability. The cats work well for the type of riding your talking about. they seemed more bouncy and fun off trail but more work. I felt like I had to work more on the skidoo going down the trail. As for over heating, I never have a problem with the scratchers down on the pro or axis. The sks is the way to go if you go Polaris because of the cooling up front. If you can, try to demo the sleds that you are most interested in. Good luck

Sno*Jet & Troy, have either of you used the newer (2016/2017/2018) Cat M8000 limited or mountain cat on the trail?

I wasnt aware they had a bulk head cooler. I was at the dealer last night and he just mentioned it had a small cooler for trails.

Ill admit that i oove the crazy green from 2016 & 2017, but i need to look good and have performance. Lol

 

[line8]

I've got a 14 cat also. For just trail riding with occasional poke around, the pro is a comfortable ride. Off trail I prefer the cat.


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[sno*jet]

Sno*Jet & Troy, have either of you used the newer (2016/2017/2018) Cat M8000 limited or mountain cat on the trail?

I wasnt aware they had a bulk head cooler. I was at the dealer last night and he just mentioned it had a small cooler for trails.

Ill admit that i oove the crazy green from 2016 & 2017, but i need to look good and have performance. Lol

i ride trails to get to the goods on my 17 cat. its not very fun on trails, too tall for cornering. handles the bumps with the best of em tho. i dont think youd even want that paddle configuration for trails. its home is in deep stuff. i think the chopped up paddle design like a polaris would be better on trail. i wouldnt go over the 2.4" track. but cooling on the cats with the short tunnel cooler is no issue on trail with a scratcher or two down. they went to this set up in like 13 or 14 i believe. nice big fins on the bulkhead cooler, curves all the way around with the drivers.
but i would talk to jeff at sportland or the i-90 doo guys or webbs in e-burg about a 600 thats not too tall/tippy but will still climb hills and boondock well.
cat makes one too but i think you want a better dealer than whats currently available. I do my own set up/maintenance and buy my parts online so i dont care about dealer support myself. good luck

 

[sanity]

I have three Summits including the new Gen 4. I don't trail ride on purpose usually, but I do have a cabin on the same ridge you ride. That means when I'm riding there it is like 16 miles to Gnat before the ride really begins (and back).

The new Summits are awesome but I feel like they can be tippy on the trail and it tries to go straight in the corners. Perhaps if I widened the stance and made some adjustments it'd do better, but I have it dialed in without trails in mind. In the deep and steep it has been great, especially with 165 w/ 3in track. On trails this year I have zero issues with heat. They have really dialed that in (never really had issues in the past either). Polaris are notorious for heating up on the trails even with scratchers.

I have a buddy that got Renegade Backcountry Xs for him and his son the last season. They love them. They are both great riders and they make the sleds go just about anywhere. Just going to have to compensate for lack of track length and lugs if you do anything aggressive. On the trails they really track well and handle the whoops. Shorter track gives you higher track speed. Like someone else mentioned, they will be more difficult to sell later but something like that might be good for you if you aren't worried about resale. You rarely see them around here, but I've definitely seen a few.