Manufacturers - I would buy THIS kind of Snowbike!

[CATSLEDMAN1]

is air the answer ?

nice string of posts in the mod section building an air shift sled project.

I have driven several high dollar sports cars with instant paddle shifting, the technology is there for a new approach, and the new 2 stroke twins in the right config for dropping the clutch at 600 rpm instead of 3500rpm, sweet it would be. Might even buy another sled.

 

[eric82930]

Just curious how many of you who think you would prefer a cvt how many have spent much time on a modern ktm 2 stroke? The clutch really is magic.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Just curious how many of you who think you would prefer a cvt how many have spent much time on a modern ktm 2 stroke? The clutch really is magic.

The clutch works great 16’s and 17’s ktm 300’s.


On dirt.
Tundra, rock mountain climbing.

That doesn’t translate to the extreme loads of heavy snow.

Re iteration of my post above regarding load transfer and mortal limitation.
Total performance goes up when less time is spent with zero track acceleration.
(Reference From road racing street bikes)

Lap times tell the tale.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

nice string of posts in the mod section building an air shift sled project.

I have driven several high dollar sports cars with instant paddle shifting, the technology is there for a new approach, and the new 2 stroke twins in the right config for dropping the clutch at 600 rpm instead of 3500rpm, sweet it would be. Might even buy another sled.

That’s actually an electric shift motor on dansvan’s build.

The airshifters typically were used in drag racing applications with a refillable tank. (Not really an all day option for shifting)

 

[jacmmaxwell]

Biggest down fall to the geared transmission is the time spent out of peak power ... no matter how fast your shift its still gotta pull the gear back to peak RPM. That alone is what makes the CVT king in the mountains on snow in my opinion.


I love my KTM 300 clutch but it's just not in the peak power enough between gears in the snow. Now I have a wide ratio and that effects it, so where are we going, a narrow ratio 10 speed? How much weight are we adding ( all told I better a CVT would be lighter )


With 120 ish HP I bet this would not even be a conversation, I'd love to clutch out some power wheelies on the SB


Don't get me wrong I love shifting the 300 on the snow and it does give you a very good feel for the traction that a CVT can't give you.

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

good to be bad

being able to operate out of the peak power hump is the advantage of a direct connection transmission. When I ride around in the trees on my M8 and then my snobike, Its disappointing to not be able to manipulate engine power to the track on the sled. Then its is disappointing to ride a 4 stroke bike in the trees, hole digging not wanting to float like a two stroke.

Its just not fair. At 70 years old I am getting impatient with the creep of technology, no better phrased "the use of available technology thats commonly in use in other products ".

 

[dhdey]

Just curious how many of you who think you would prefer a cvt how many have spent much time on a modern ktm 2 stroke? The clutch really is magic.

you must never ride super deep gnarly terrain. no clutch out there is capable of keeping you at max hp, when track speed is changing due to changing terrain, snow depth and angle. i fully understand the fun factor of a gear box, but it really limits the fun factor on deep days

 

[eric82930]

Gnarly and deep is all there is right now. And yes I can keep my bike on the power any time any where that's why I asked the question in the first place.... I can stay in power all the time. Obviously ground speed will go down on a down shift but the power is always there. I don't want to climb chutes so I guess I really don't want 150hp regardless but if there was a perfectly tuned cvt on my 50hp ktm I'll admit it might go a degree steeper up a switch back but still won't go straight up anything..... Not a game changer in performance. I guess it's hard to erase the perception of having 150hp when arguing how a cvt would perform on a lesser powered engine. The only way a cvt will please is with a big power show hawk style application. Fast and wild.

 

[chumbilly1]

Not much different than what les is doing.

Skinnier for sure. Wondering if that’s a Polaris scrambler 400 motor.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Its a 900 billet VES motor cut in half and programmed to run backwards. 100HP

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Its a 900 billet VES motor cut in half and programmed to run backwards. 100HP

100 hp from a 2 stroke 450 single.

Seems optimistic.

Have they strapped a dyno to it?

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Gnarly and deep is all there is right now. And yes I can keep my bike on the power any time any where that's why I asked the question in the first place.... I can stay in power all the time. Obviously ground speed will go down on a down shift but the power is always there. I don't want to climb chutes so I guess I really don't want 150hp regardless but if there was a perfectly tuned cvt on my 50hp ktm I'll admit it might go a degree steeper up a switch back but still won't go straight up anything..... Not a game changer in performance. I guess it's hard to erase the perception of having 150hp when arguing how a cvt would perform on a lesser powered engine. The only way a cvt will please is with a big power show hawk style application. Fast and wild.

I guess i’m a little lost on your logic here.
Do you think only 50 hp is the magic power limit for snowbikes?

(We got the point that you rev, clutch, shift like an immortal god)

I’ve been riding around 118 hp in a manual transmission setting for almost a year.
I don’t climb chutes with it? (137x12x2.5 doesn’t even come close to that)

It’s at least 3x funner than any 50-60 hp snowbike i’ve ever Ridden.
I’m constantly clutching it to get it back in the best part of the power curve (because anything less than full power is a little disappointing after feeling the fun nature of the motor singing its song)

It would greatly benefit from a cvt.

(And I didn’t say anything about wanting more centrifugal force added)

Just a properly tuned “continuously variable transmission” which by definition reacts in milliseconds to changes in snow load, terrain and throttle input to get maximum trackspeed while keeping the motor in the sweet part of the power curve.

 

[Hawkster]

Its just not fair. At 70 years old I am getting impatient with the creep of technology, no better phrased "the use of available technology thats commonly in use in other products ".

I hear that , riding a machine that's 15 years old . The new technology is almost able to do what I want . Doo's new primary can be as smooth as silk and aggressive like a gear box at the same time not to mention the Gen 4 is so close to a one ski that an Alpha skid and a one ski could be a fatal death punch . I'd be running that skid if I actually had a frame to attach it to and making the mounts for it would only hinder the machine . Things are moving forward and unfortunately for us older guys we're left to the others bleeding the heck out of the consumer for every penny . Poo is running a CVTech on their smaller sleds which is hysterical because that manufacture supplies clutches to some heavy hitters besides some little fan cooled machine . Than you have a really cool build like this Yamaha wasted with a primary clutch that's older than a majority of people on here . It's just messed up and common sense takes a back seat . The consumer is blinded by brand loyalty that plays in favor of the manufacture .

 

[Norma Stitz]

EFI 600 twin 2T ... chaindrive conversion to a harley style divorced transmission,

Pretty narrow compared to a cvt.

Id like to see this path explored. The trans could be placed rearward under seat.

 

[jacmmaxwell]

Id like to see this path explored. The trans could be placed rearward under seat.

There all kinds of possibilities with this setup , my thought was move the track forward under the rider , then you can mount the transmission directly over the drivers and have a very tight package overall while keeping the engine relatively low for handling


Even a 440 makes around 100hp although I'm not sure if the 440 is that much smaller in physical size to bother. Without the weight of a primary clutch on the crank I would think this would be a snappy combo mated to a 600-800 twin.


You would want a powervalve motor or the lack of bottom end would make the transmission a nightmare, you'd be rowing the gearbox relentlessly.

 

[Hawkster]

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/...n-hits-the-slopes-with-street-rod-snow-bikes/

 

[sledr2]

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/...n-hits-the-slopes-with-street-rod-snow-bikes/

Funny! The Harley's make about 50 HP and weigh a chit load more than a dirt bike.

 

[jacmmaxwell]

Those 750's are claimed 68 hp at the crank but yeah ... a pig on the snow.

 

[NEWDUCK]

Would explain why they only showed a few seconds of someone riding it