AirRide vs AirPro vs Stiffer Springs

[mumur]

I'd been warned of the necessity of stiffer forks, and after going out the last few times I've definitely noticed it. I've found older threads about AirPro as well as ones about suspension setup, but I'd like to collect current information about all three options I've found.


Does anyone have experience with AirRide/AirPro/stiff springs? What have been the pros and cons so far? How much pressure do you run with AirRide or AirPro? Is the main difference between the two just having to manually balance pressure in each tube? What weight are your springs? How aggressively do you ride?



I'm 200 lbs with the stock Sachs springs (I think .48) on my Beta right now, basically wondering how far I need to take the modifications to get to a useful suspension setup. I'm planning to ride pretty aggressively, but I'm pretty novice right now (sled experience when younger, currently MTB aggressively a lot in the summer).


AirPro: https://betamotorcycles.ca/collections/parts/products/beta-snowbike-airpro-fork-kit
AirRide: https://betamotorcycles.ca/products/airride-snowbike-fork-kit?variant=2945252098088

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415994

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4089107

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418983

Some products of a 30 second google search.

 

[wwillf01]

As far as I am concerned ... Air Pro is a bandaid ....does it's job but not as good as springing the forks... I am 220 and have ran the air Pro in a yz250 with .50 springs and 20 psi still too soft for big jumps..." I don't even jump that big of stuff" I am changing to .67 springs and keeping the air Pro for jumping... Then will lower the pressure to more of 6 psi level... At the end of the day the forks are more compliant with springs and more reactive... To me the airpro is a little more lazy and an antibottoming bandaid..

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[tek9tim]

If you're 200lbs, the stock springs are a bit light for you on dirt and way light for snow.

The AirPro seems to be well liked by guys who swap tires back onto their bikes in the summer. If you'll be swapping tires back on, I'd probably call up a suspension shop and find out what springs they recommend for your weight and riding on dirt, then add the AirPro and run heavier fork oil in the winter. You'll want to change the fork oil after snowbike season anyway, you get a fair bit of water in there.

If you aren't planning on putting tires back onto the bike, I'd go whole hog and have the forks resprung and revalved specifically for snow.

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

sprung

I have had three bikes for snow bikes and initial rides out forks felt way too soft.

After 5 years of playing with the snow bike suspensions, its come to my attention through experimentation that the first big soft problem on a TS kit is the rear suspension, springs are way to soft for 160lb riders and up.

When you find the correct stiff rear suspension spring for the rear suspension, you will find your fork springs are not that far off.

If you fix the fork springs and don't fix the suspension springs your kit will always fall way short of its potential.

On both my Yamahas and Ktm beefed up the forks with springs/air and both.
Forks were stiff alrighty but kit still sucked, traction was poor, trail riding was poor, .

When I had worked my way up to 240 lb 10" spring on my front shock and 225lb 8" spring on my rear shock, a WHOLE LOT OF BAD manners went away.

I also re valved my shocks several times and no doubt that also contributes to better suspension and overall handling manners.

And, now a little softer forks and down to abut 8lbs of air is a way better ride and improved trail manners.

The aro kits will do pretty good at 225 front and rear and work WAY BETTER.

 

[M5-]

I agree, start with the rear because sag will affect the front end. If your kit is too soft and has a bunch of sag in it more pressure is put on the ski which makes the whole system not work right adding stiff springs only makes it worse. Slapping in a set of stiff springs because of what you read on the internet isn't the way to go. Valving is as important if not more so than spring rate. The whole thing is a package, springs, front and rear and valving. How much fuel you pack on the back end and tools will affect the front end, its a balancing act.


M5

 

[mumur]

@Sheetmetalfab thanks but I did search and have read all those. Not a lot of comparison between these things, mostly people that went with one or the other without much reasoning added in, along with some advertisement for suspension shops. Also still haven't found anything about AirRide other than a few people saying "I bought it" or something along those lines.


Everyone else thanks for the tips. I wasn't aware that the rear suspension would affect the front so heavily. I have a CMX kit and the guys there specifically told me the front fork was going to be too soft after they put the kit on, so I still want to start there, but if there are still issues after I've beefed it up a bit then I'll definitely tweak the back.


I am planning on switching back to dirt in the summer so I'll avoid a full revalve. I'll call the local place though and see what they recommend. Good to know that AirPro does something, but sounds like springs are a must anyway.

 

[Answ3r]

@Sheetmetalfab thanks but I did search and have read all those. Not a lot of comparison between these things, mostly people that went with one or the other without much reasoning added in, along with some advertisement for suspension shops. Also still haven't found anything about AirRide other than a few people saying "I bought it" or something along those lines.


Everyone else thanks for the tips. I wasn't aware that the rear suspension would affect the front so heavily. I have a CMX kit and the guys there specifically told me the front fork was going to be too soft after they put the kit on, so I still want to start there, but if there are still issues after I've beefed it up a bit then I'll definitely tweak the back.


I am planning on switching back to dirt in the summer so I'll avoid a full revalve. I'll call the local place though and see what they recommend. Good to know that AirPro does something, but sounds like springs are a must anyway.

Short of going to a revalve, thicker oil (10w) and raising oil level will help and is easily reversible for summer. You're loosing at least 25mm of travel with the ski clamps, so you can raise oil level at least by 25mm without any worries.

 

[Jaynelson]

If you want to push the easy button....do the Trio, it's really good

 

[Chadx]

Mumur, I bought the AirRide off ebay a couple months ago for $77 delivered. Quick and easy install on my 2013 Husaberg FE501 with 2016 CMK 129 kit. I bought this rig used this fall so I do not know what fork oil or level was in it, but it was the typical soft FE501 feel. The AirRide made a big different at 15lb. I've not experimented as much as I would if I could get to the valves easier with a typical air gauge and pump. I've been meaning to source a shock air gauge/pump which would make it easy but just haven't. The 15lb of air pressure made a big difference. Enough that I've not been looking to re-spring. I'm thinking the snowbike kit one runs makes a difference as to how stiff ones forks need to be run.

My previous kit was a 2014 Timbersled on a 2004 KTM 525. I'd had that fork resprung stiff and valved appropriately which made a huge difference, but it's hard to make the comparison between the overall feel of that setup and my current because that old timersled kit had a frustrating amount of ski pressure where the CMX lifts the front end easily so it's a completely different feel. I can't see going with any other snowbike kit for my riding style. The CMX will lift the front on waterbars and whoops. When in the powder and diving down across a creek bed crossing or ditch, where you can't tackle it at an angle and have to hit it head on, it lifts the front end enough to get the ski to catch and lift up and out the other side rather than lawn darting into the far bank like my previous kit.

I'm about 175lb. Besides rider, bike and cargo weight, riding style is the main reason guys look to stiffen front forks. I don't do huge jumps or drops. Without the AirRide, I would have been ok to ride but bottoming or at least having too much front end dive, but with the air ride, I don't feel the need to respring. The $77 did the trick even with these soft springs. If one is starting with stiffer enduro or motocross springs, you'd be even closer.

For spring rates, front and back, it's similar to summer riding on dirtbikes or any other springed motosport; if you never ever bottom out, you are two stiff. If you are bottoming 10 times every time you are out, you are two soft. If you bottom once every ride or three, that is probably about right.

For the price and ease of trying, I'd recommend just trying the AirRide. See where that gets you and then make the decision after you get some seat time. Only you can decide if you need more. And if you are also going to be swapping your bike for summer duty (I don't), that will also weigh in on your decision as you'd either need to change springs/valve stack twice a year or buy a second set of forks to have a summer set and a winter set. With AirRide, even if they don't get you quite as stiff as you want, it might be good enough considering no summer/winter changes needed.