Twin Rail Spring Snow Setup

boondocker97

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I know we are normally asking about the best setups for deep snow (especially this time of year), but with supply issues being what they are I want to get a little more of a jump on this. I have a boosted 165 Alpha coming to cover the deep snow duties, so now I am throwing around ideas of how best to utilize what will be the new spare. This is the 2014-2018 Proclimb in my signature. It's been updated to the current Ascender chassis so please bear with me. I think I'd like to tailor it a bit more toward spring riding and try to have the best of both worlds between the two machines.

Drivetrain wise it's running 900BB, 2018 primary, Tied secondary, TKI belt drive, and dropped driveshaft. Chassis wise it currently has a 162 3" powerclaw, Kmod skid with Raptors, Ice Age Elevate spindles, 2016+ geometry 38" front end, Fox Evol X front shocks, and powder pro or AC G2 proclimb skis depending on conditions. While this setup works well in the steep and deep, it could hook up better in the more setup snow and be a little more maneuverable. The goal for it would be something I can rail around, jump, do some tail standers, ride trees, hillcross, and still be able to handle the occasional 2' snow day.

Right off the bat I am thinking of clipping the back of the tunnel down to standard 153" Cat length, new rails for the skid, and a 153 track of some variety. Kmod did at one point offer a 141 skid option... that sounds really fun paired with a 141 2.6 powerclaw, but might clip the wings on the deep snow ability a bit too much. Especially for a big guy like me. So I'm mostly considering a 153 2.6 powerclaw or a Camso 280 conquer in the same length. Any other tracks you guys have run that you think would work well in the spring snow? A 2.6 powerclaw with a few screws seems like the best route for the hillcross course, but that's only one day of the season. Not sure I'd want to run that all the time?

Might be good to re-gear back to a 26/66 2.54 ratio from the 25/66 2.64 I'm running now. I used to pull that back when I had the 162 2.6 track on it. Maybe a little more aggressive helix if it will pull that too.

I'm already running my limiter strap out as far as I dare with the Elevate spindles, so nothing to really gain there. If the spindles stay the rear shock needs a re-valve to avoid bottoming. For what I'm doing it might be better to put the stock spindles back on???

Any other thoughts or things I'm not thinking of?
 

CO 2.0

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What about trying riot spindles or upper a arms to pull the caster back like linked below? The elevate spindles grab more with their cut outs in spring snow, the bmp ones might hang up less.

I wont even ride my 153s anymore in less than 8" of pow. I go straight to the 146 on my riot x with 36" front end. Can the new 22 146 2.6 single rail track with new windows work with a dual rail? It's different than my 21 riot x track

You're not running a coupled skid are you? That doesn't seem fun in low snow unless you are just climbing steep. Doesn't work for all around fun playful front end and jumping.

 

sno*jet

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i think you know your answers but maybe just lost on if its going to be a playful sled like a skidoo or a technical firm snow sled that will hold lines a bit more predictable than the alpha. I would go with the latter and let the alpha be your trixter wheely rider type unit. The shocks on it should adjust easily if you want to tame it a bit. Id leave the twin rail elevated for steep sidehills. I wouldnt take it too short, spring allows for big climbs that may not be safe during winter. my .02. congrats on the new sled!
 

IDspud

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Having an Alpha and a sled very similar to your twin rail,
Alpha is already way closer to your goal.
The over rumored wash out is easily controlled with a lighter throttle.
 

hansenmac

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could go with a 2.25 and use your existing rails. the shorter lugs would fold over less and its got the fingers on it for packed snow. the length would help you on the occasional deep day.
 

Fredrik

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M66 track is good for harder snow stiff side lugs that lets machine set in a sidehill and softer lugs in middle so it still have some lift.
 

boondocker97

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What about trying riot spindles or upper a arms to pull the caster back like linked below? The elevate spindles grab more with their cut outs in spring snow, the bmp ones might hang up less.

I wont even ride my 153s anymore in less than 8" of pow. I go straight to the 146 on my riot x with 36" front end. Can the new 22 146 2.6 single rail track with new windows work with a dual rail? It's different than my 21 riot x track

You're not running a coupled skid are you? That doesn't seem fun in low snow unless you are just climbing steep. Doesn't work for all around fun playful front end and jumping.

Not really wanting to buy different spindles to do this seeing as I already have the Elevate ones and stockers. Also trying not so sink a ton of money into this repurpose job. The new sled will have the riot spindles on it as well so I could mix and match a little if I wanted to try the concept, but I'm not too keen on robbing parts from that one for this. I'm also not going to narrow the front of this one from 38" down to 36". So if I did try the riot spindles I'd have to get some different upper arms again (this sled came with the old 38" BDX uppers). Don't want to loose any more stability than I currently have with the lifted setup or lose more suspension travel either. Could maybe sell the Elevate spindles to recoup the cost of converting to Riot. Or make some plastic inserts or covers that smooth out the profile of the Elevate spindles? Couple pieces of Gorilla tape or zip ties with some plastic side plates cut from a bucket might make for some quick testing on the hill.

I think I'd have to punch windows in the new 146 track and clip it to make it work. Also need a driver swap at that point. That's not appealing to me when there are other tracks out there already made for twin rails. Traction wise do you think it's better than the old 3.0P 2.6 powerclaw? Do you mind me asking what you weigh by chance? I'm 300lb these days and even in fighting shape I'm 250lb before sled gear. Trying to get a 14X length track to jump out of some mashed potato snow may be problematic for me without digging itself a grave.

Yeah I'm running the coupled skid. There wasn't much left of the stock skid after the BDX arm bent and twisted everything else up. Thinking back to when I got to ride in the spring snow in AK with my sled at low elevation the coupled skid still worked great. The extra power down there warranted it though. Don't get the same kind of lift at 9000'. When I demo'ed the 2013 Pro-lite it was in spring snow with a stock geometry skid, 153 2.6 track. Thinking back... the way that sled grabbed and went is probably what I'm really looking for again. Buying a set of Elevate rails and building a 2016+ geometry 153 skid with a set of nice shocks is probably what would be ideal. Between a track, shocks, rails, and some other misc. parts I'd need I'd have $3k into it pretty quick. Hard to do when I have a nice $3400 aftermarket skid already. $500 set of rails for it to try the shorter track seems like maybe a better way to go to start. Decisions decisions...

Hey @Chewy22 , I may need to take a spin on your Elevated 153 twin rail and see how it rides!

i think you know your answers but maybe just lost on if its going to be a playful sled like a skidoo or a technical firm snow sled that will hold lines a bit more predictable than the alpha. I would go with the latter and let the alpha be your trixter wheely rider type unit. The shocks on it should adjust easily if you want to tame it a bit. Id leave the twin rail elevated for steep sidehills. I wouldnt take it too short, spring allows for big climbs that may not be safe during winter. my .02. congrats on the new sled!
Rolly-polly ski-doo feel is not what I'm after haha! Trying to keep that rigid, hold a line where it's pointed feel with this one. Which it does do, but when the snow is hard that 3" track does a lot of spinning when you are trying to get going. Shorter length and a little stiffer track might make it bite better and be able to pull the front up and around when wanted. Climbing with the 162 coupled skid in the spring is letting me climb some things in the trees that get a little dicey coming back down when there's no alternate way!
Having an Alpha and a sled very similar to your twin rail,
Alpha is already way closer to your goal.
The over rumored wash out is easily controlled with a lighter throttle.
Having ridden an Alpha similar to the one I'm getting, the Alpha isn't what I'm looking for in the spring. Want a little more stability overall, not just on the hillside.
could go with a 2.25 and use your existing rails. the shorter lugs would fold over less and its got the fingers on it for packed snow. the length would help you on the occasional deep day.
I really think it's going to take a shorter length track with my setup at my regular riding elevation to make it bite in like I want. I had a 2.6" lug powerclaw before the current 3" and still didn't have the hookup I wanted on harder snow.
M66 track is good for harder snow stiff side lugs that lets machine set in a sidehill and softer lugs in middle so it still have some lift.
It looks like it would bite. I've never been around it in person. Has anyone compared it side by side with the Camso or Cat tracks? It's definitely on the heavy side at 59lb for a 153 3.0P.

I seem to remember some of the Polaris guys (TRS) talking about cutting down Camso X3s or X3.2 to 2.7 being a good track option too. Might have to track those threads down and re-read.
 

Fack

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Does your sled have the dropped chain case and lowered drivers? Can’t remember now which year car did that - ‘17 maybe? You mention current geometry but didn’t mention this.

I found that the recommended mounting locations on the kmod skid to have too much ski pressure. If you’ve got the elevate spindles, and haven’t done so already, lower the front of the skid in the tunnel. This lightens the front end and helps with transfer helping the track to hook better in spring snow. Ice age has a set of rails for the kmod designed to help with the approach angle on this setup. If your sled doesn’t have the factory drop and roll, the approach angle will be pretty steep and you risk stabbing your rails through the track.

Do this before you do anything and you’ll probably like the sled a lot more.
 

Fack

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Just saw dropped driveshaft in your original post. It’s early.

Lower the skid and try it.
 

Chewy22

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Hey @Chewy22 , I may need to take a spin on your Elevated 153 twin rail and see how it rides!
Sure thing!

The 3 inch PC track does spin pretty bad in the hard snow. But overall all I really like the elevated twin rail setup. I wish Cat would release a carbon copy of the 3" alhpa track for twins. The alpha track does hook up better in the deep. I don't know how the alpha track does in the spring setup snow, didn't ride it those conditions prior to the conversion. :)
 

sno*jet

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maybe sonsider the 2.5" saw tooth also. im a fan of the o.g. camoplast tips, even if they fold over theres something about them that keeps them goin. I believe they grip better down hill too. seems like a popular replacement for polaris guys when their 2.6 wears out. the new 2.75" polaris track might be a hit as well.
 

boondocker97

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Does your sled have the dropped chain case and lowered drivers? Can’t remember now which year car did that - ‘17 maybe? You mention current geometry but didn’t mention this.

I found that the recommended mounting locations on the kmod skid to have too much ski pressure. If you’ve got the elevate spindles, and haven’t done so already, lower the front of the skid in the tunnel. This lightens the front end and helps with transfer helping the track to hook better in spring snow. Ice age has a set of rails for the kmod designed to help with the approach angle on this setup. If your sled doesn’t have the factory drop and roll, the approach angle will be pretty steep and you risk stabbing your rails through the track.

Do this before you do anything and you’ll probably like the sled a lot more.
Yep it has a full 2017 Mountain Cat tunnel with the current driver setup and location. I did drop the front of the skid down when I put the Elevate spindles on. Had to suck the limiter strap up one hole though to keep the track from scrubbing the hyfax too hard. I wasn't aware that Ice Age offered a Kmod elevate specific rail! Might have to check into that and maybe be able to let the limiter out again with that setup.

I agree the old challenger sawtooth 2.5 is a pretty good all around track. Still have one on the backup M7. Reminds me... Still have a 153 A20 track laying around I could throw on backwards and go like crazy! Just don't ask me to stop!!!
 

boondocker97

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Just got an email back from Ice Age and they don't offer a Kmod specific Elevate rail. Referred me back to Kmod for setup questions.

I just recently remembered that one of my friends swapped out a 153 2.6 powerclaw and skid out of his 2017 last year for a 162 3" and complete 162 skid. He's still got the track and the skid minus the shocks so I may pickup that setup and source a set of shocks and regular elevate rails for it. Being local and being able to do some trading with him for some labor and other parts I have are good for keeping this project on budget too!
 
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