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After 2 seasons on the snow, did the 2019 or 2020 Alphas end up with a better track record?

Frostbite

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I am seeing some killer deals on brand new 2019 Alphas left overs that were never sold and come with full factory warranty.
Were the changes made to the 2020 and 2021 models worth an extra couple grand or should I feel comfortable picking up a new 2019?
Also, I have been a 153" guy on both my M8 and my Proclimb but, I am hearing you guys say that the 165 is the more balanced of the two in the Alpha.
So, I guess I will be looking for a 2019 165 Alpha. There are 154's out there as well for nearly the same price.
Thoughts?
 
U
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I went with 2021 165. I need electric start due to health. All the 20’s and 19’s around me were manual. Also most folks were saying the 165 handles more predictably.
 

Frostbite

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Thanks UtahCat. I may do what you did as well and order a 2021 but, "she who shall be obeyed" thinks it's absolutely crazy for me to be buying a new sled while economic ruin is taking place. This whole endeavor may end up being very tough to pull off.
I wouldn't mind electric start either but, it's not a show stopper for me.
I thought I read the 2020's don't like MDS weights, which I love.
Is there any difference in the propensity for snow ingestion between the model years?
Are the single rails beefed up on the 2020's form lessons learned on the 2019's?
 
T
1700 miles on my 19 165 and I might buy another one if I can find it, Rode a 20 and the only difference I could tell was low end on the 20 was a little more snappy. Mid to high seemed to be better on the 19. Other than that no changes that are worth the money for a 21. Set your suspension up right and rail issues are not a problem. 5 in my group have them and zero issues.
 

Frostbite

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Thanks for the great info Tswan.
Is a CTEC as hard to pull over when it's below zero outside as a Suzuki can be?
That's on of the reasons I was contemplating getting one with electric start.
 

CO 2.0

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Way easier to pull over a Ctec than a suzuki. But an Axys is still easier to pull over than a ctec. That being said, my next sled will be electric start.
 

Frostbite

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Thanks CO 2.0, my Suzuki wasn't too bad until I added high compression heads. Then it became a real bugger to pull over when cold. the placement of the pull rope being up so high doesn't help.
It seems like a sled with electric start, a lithium battery and a lightweight exhaust canister makes the most sense.
Have any of you ordered the ATAC system on your 2021?
 
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jeeper8650

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~2300 miles on my 2019 Alpha 154. Not a single issue. I changed the belt once and the chain case oil each season. Otherwise I just ride it and those are all mountain miles and where I ride I don't need to ride the trail at all. I wouldn't hesitate to get a 19'.
 

Vern

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My '20 mtn cat is my first 165" sled and first e start and I've got no complaints on either of those options. It'll turn tighter than any of my previous 153" sleds and the track hooks up good enough I still have problems keeping the front end down from time to time. I don't think I'd go back to a non estart sled after having it. It doesn't seem like much, but You'd be surprised how much energy you save throughout the day not pulling the rope. Not to mention how nice it is to start in precarious positions. As to running, it runs decent overall but does have a slight hesitation from time to time when on and off the throttle. I don't know if I was just expecting to much after hearing all the ctec praise on the 18-19 sleds, but honestly I don't think it's anything special over my previous Suzuki power wise. My brothers '14 with just a y-pipe and mds weights will pull away from it in an uphill drag. I'm also one of the ones that couldn't get the mds weights to work, Steve had no idea what was going on either at the time, but that was early season so maybe he's figured something out by now. I hung on to them because I'm wondering if maybe I got one of the super rich sleds I've read about and might get an aftermarket flash next season once warranty is up. 600 miles and only thing damaged was the cross brace at the bottom of the upper steering post from wheelying over backwards on a climb in low snow, covered by warranty. Rear suspension and rail look great.

So to summarize on my '20 mtn cat 165",
handling and traction: awesome
Power: not bad but nothing special
Durability: great

Sorry for the storybook.
 

boondocker97

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ATAC suspension is the only reason I would get a 2021 over other years, but I'm a suspension snob compared to most mountain riders. It only comes in 165 configuration and no ES option. 2021s have updated rail where the rear bump stop is glued on instead of having screw holes to crack. Rear scissor arm is through bolted, but you can do that yourself as well. I haven't seen anything saying the intake will be any better on the 2021s so I'd plan on sealing it up yourself regardless of year.
 

turboless terry

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I had a 19 165 and went to a 20 154. There is still the difference there always was. 154 is just more fun. I do think a 165 is a better all around sled because the 165 is still more playful and easier than older shorter sleds and way more forgiving in deeper snow, trees, or really steep sidehills. I wish i had both. Mine also has an elevate kit and skis are in full narrow. There is a learning curve but I'm fairly dialed now. I wish I had e start. Bad shoulders and they start harder than any of them. Pull handle could be bigger. Usually 3 pulls for me but i can't pull that hard compared to most people anymore. As far as running better than the 19. My buddy thought so but i wasn't sure. 20 had less problems but i never got in insanely deep snow that the 19 wouldn't run in. Guessing it is the same. Less miles on my 20. Atac might be cool because i never use the qs3. Run on 2 and want to ride. Not going to crawl under my sled all the time to change shock settings. Really wish they steered easier.
 

Frostbite

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Great stuff turboless Terry! The 162" and 165" tracked sleds I have ridden in the past were just not nearly as fun as the shorter tracks where you basically steer with body English because the skis are always in the air. I enjoy that but, I will also be 60 next year so I have to be a realist as well.

This may derail my own train but, I am shocked at what just happened. My wife just asked why I wanted another Arctic Cat? Well, I guess because my last two sleds have been Cats (after Yamaha left me hanging). She said, you rode Skidoo's and Yamaha's, why don't you get a Polaris this time around, the only one you have had in the past was that little XC120 you bought for the kids and you are always telling me how much lighter they are. Oh man, she actually listened. Interesting, perhaps I could be convinced that a Kahos 850 would be fun. They are lighter and they do come with a much longer warranty. Their 800 engine reliability made me run far, far away previously but, maybe they have the engine reliability thing worked out? I can't believe I am even saying this on here. It's heresy! Does she have a point?
 

Octanee

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Get the alpha 165, It behaves and feels like a 155". It takes a few trips to get used to, I couldn't believe how fast it carved and changed direction on me and threw me off it lol.

This past week we had a ton of fresh snow, I rode a pro rmk, khaos, and ski doo xm, heres my observations, my 19 alpha at 3k km. has made me so much better of a rider, it holds a side hill great, i can change direction while sidehilling with ease, it's easy to hold over, and get over, it has great traction, I have issues keeping the nose down at times with the 165 3 inch , at the end of the day I feel the best riding it, least effort required, IT instills great confidence in my ability on the machine, However the suspension on it is average, the doo has the best.

That said here are a few observations, the Khaos was like the pro rmk but more power, it feels close to the 800 ctec/doo but for a 850 engine it lacks. But polaris always has hasn't they in the engine department?. The khaos/pro took more effort to get over but once over held a decent line, However they have a bad sense of traction, they trench badly, I get stuck on it where my alpha tracks by with no issues, It's like the rear end sinks down and nose goes for the sky anytime you start to chew. The doo has great traction and like the alpha does not want to just trench right down when you start to chew and having the front end point to the sky. the doo I feel is easier to get initiated into a sidehill but does get a bit wiggly and more constant correction to keep it there. I've had so many times where I was amazed at how quick the pro would drop that rear end and get stuck with little forward movement when the doo/cat/alpha flies right by.... I'm not the only one with those observations its well known, Sidehill wash out from it too because it trenches down wanting to climb up the hill at times but all sleds can do that to some degrees too.

I noticed that my alpha 165 behaves perhaps in some ways like a 155? maybe shorter track? I didn't realize it until I rode the doo. It will turn fast and tight and It took me a while to "detune" my input as I was overshooting what I meant to do. in my instance I'm on a slight side hill dodging trees, I'm say 10 ft from a tree pointed at it so I stop and I want to hammer the throttle and lean to the left and shoot out to the left of the tree, Alpha will do it right now like some nice carve. The doo, it wants to shoot forward and turn and It won't make that tight curve that my alpha does so easy.


All In all I feel the alpha is the all around best mountain sled, Easiest to get over and hold over, predictability, Reliability seems good. I do wish the track was a 2 ply instead of 1, but all the new sleds are a single ply.

If you choose an alpha I say the 165 if you have some powder days and climb, It still wants to wheelie easy when you want it to and when climbing I still fight to keep the nose down time to time, it just hooks up and pulls.
 

Frostbite

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Octanee, great job of talking me out of tree my wife threw me into! You reminded me of the very reason I wanted an Alpha in the first place. It just takes less energy and as we get older energy conserving energy becomes not just a nicety but a necessity. I wish Arctic Cat had access to a starting system similar to Skidoo's SHOT but, an electric start sled with a lithium battery up front and a lightweight exhaust canister might be about as good as it gets for saving even more energy. Has anyone ran into range issues with having the smaller electric start gas tank? Thanks again Octanee, great post!
 

Octanee

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Octanee, great job of talking me out of tree my wife threw me into! You reminded me of the very reason I wanted an Alpha in the first place. It just takes less energy and as we get older energy conserving energy becomes not just a nicety but a necessity. I wish Arctic Cat had access to a starting system similar to Skidoo's SHOT but, an electric start sled with a lithium battery up front and a lightweight exhaust canister might be about as good as it gets for saving even more energy. Has anyone ran into range issues with having the smaller electric start gas tank? Thanks again Octanee, great post!


My dad rides a Ski doo xm and up until the now alpha I honestly thought it was the sled with the right compromises, It's been a good machine and after riding my alpha a bunch of times, that's what He'll be on next, If he can do the same riding with much less effort he won't feel so tired the next day. He's 58 himself, Not the same level of energy anymore!

And yeah the shot system is going to be patented as was the electronic engine reverse that doo had first too. I'm unsure if there is a way to make something similar or if they were SOL.


E-start can be added and people have added them to their 19's. So yeah a lightweight battery and a can you'll be good to go with normal/maximum fuel capacity. That said you could in a sense have your own "shot" by having a even smaller half size lithium, you know it wont work for the continuous cranking but that short burst of power they work just fine and get charged back up after a short ride.


I Also have yet to know of any improvements or changes on reliability between the 2 engines. As a previous thread had mentioned asking the engine reliability, people have their ideas and as I posted again, theres a lack of threads started on the issue, go check into the polaris pro/axys/850 forums and there sure is a lot more topics on engine troubles than here, So if that says anything?. If the price is a good deal a new left over 19 alpha is not bad at all. how much $$ saved vs new + taxes saved too... maybe thats 5k or 6k right there. What does that buy you? lots of stuff!


Oh and the airbox, Yeah you need to seal that up. I bet that's the biggest issue those have had. Mine had big air gaps, Then afterwards up top where the intake screens are, It was sucking snow in up there! the plastic that the screens insert into basically sits up into the upper plastic with no real way of sealing, I got hail into the intake driving down the highway! big holes!. But those are fairly quick minor items.
 

summ8rmk

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I have learned, when the snow is firm, to stay away from sidehills.... i am seriously considering an Axys.
My buddies just got some this spring and they sidehill much much better than the Alpha in spring snow...
As for pulling over... sit down on the Axys and pull start it easily with 2 fingers on the handle. I literally tipped my Alpha over in the bed of my truck trying to start it when i had the second broken injector wire... my Alpha has to have a full 100% pull of the rope to start. I do love the sled but it has also had the most problems of any cat sled i have owned since 2008. Not serious problems but way more than i should have in 2yrs. Broken primary, head leaking antifreeze, injector wires breaking, bolts falling out of rear skid, broken heat shield over ecm, broken exhaust springs, broken track


Sent it
 
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