100hp or 100 less lbs???

[WKR]

I hope some of you find this thread usefull as it has cost me a but load of money to provide this information with first hand experiance. also if this sounds a bit advertisy, sorry, but I do have to promote my shop White Knuckle Motorports at some point.

I put almost 2000kms on a superlight chassey this year, carbon fiber proclimb and around 500kms on cutler turbo proclimb 800 stage 2 and a couple 100 kms on a m1100 turbo with hijacker and clutching. I have tried to be as impartial to each sled as I can. Here are the findings, for those who are on the fence as too what to build, purchase, or aquire.

2012 M1100 Turbo $32000 611lbs full of fuel
mods include
carbon fiber hood
cold air intake
nextech skid
2.5 track
light weight battery
hindle exhaust
vented side panels
seat
knee pads
slp skis
tunnel bag
hid head light
post forward kit
40 hrs labour

pros
great out of the box power
economical to get hp out it
230hp in the hills with clutching and airbox mod, pulls real nice
great handling and light while moving
great fuel mileage

cons
yes your tired at the end of the day
sucks being stuck
sucks to wrench on, lots going on under the hood.
deep and steep performance is not quite there.

2012 proclimb 800 turbo $25000 585lbs full of fuel

mods
cutler stage 2 kit
built motor
post forward kit
shock upgrade
seat
vented panels
a few other goodies

pros
amazing power
makes you giggle like a little school girl
easy tuning
very capable hill climber

cons
heavier than stock
harder on fuel
race gas $$$
maintainance intervals are frequent
a bit less bottom end than stock, making the technical tree riding a littler tougher.

2012 Carbon Fiber proclimb 800 $30000 460lbs full of fuel

mods
carbon tunnel, tank, hood all C3 powersports
c3 belt drive
tapps clutch C3 design
cold air intake
slp skis
vented panels
shock wave helix

pros
super light, easy to move around
amazing handling
extremely agile
stock motor, no maintanance
fuel and go
tireless riding
never worried about being stuck on your own
super flotation
very good climbing and boondocking capabilities
tough as nails

Cons
expensive initially


I have ridden 2 stroke turbos for the last 7 years and think i have turned a corner. I know believe that a light well thought out chassey will outperform anything out there on a day to day basis, taking into account, riding energy, wrenching, durability, reliability and general ability to continue to put a smile on your face. it does not have power like the 4 stroke or turbo 2, but does not need it. you are never tired of riding it, never sore the next day. you can just throw it in the trailer and know its going to run the next day. you can abuse it on the hill and hardly ever wreck it. theres nothing to tune. it literally will make you a better rider. We can and will build you any sled you want but i would put stock in this chassey dollar for dollar. if your ever on the fence give us a call at white knuckle motorsports and i will drag this thing out for you to try and you can decide yourself. i could go on and on as too why the pros and cons far out weigh the pros and cons of the first options, but i don't think i need too.

 

[smokindave]

I was standing at the top of monster when you went over,never realized you were running a stock motor......congratulations!!!!

 

[WyoBoy1000]

I haven't found a lot this year I couldn't do or really need a turbo for (a few days you did need it) and the stocker for the most part is fun, as in a challenge. But I want to be able to hit a wind lip at speed or the option to near stop and pick up speed again, I will prob turbo for the money.

 

[ACMtnCat]

You broke your tunnel climbing in revy, how many other sleds broke or totaled their sleds on that same climb? What happens next? Insurance claim? Help from C3 on a new tunnel?

A new stock tunnel is cheap to replace. And easier to get back up and running the next week if sht happens.

 

[WKR]

You broke your tunnel climbing in revy, how many other sleds broke or totaled their sleds on that same climb? What happens next? Insurance claim? Help from C3 on a new tunnel?

A new stock tunnel is cheap to replace. And easier to get back up and running the next week if sht happens.

sled was up and running with 2 strips of aluminum and some rivots, will finish the year this way and then fix it properly with $100 worth of carbon and resin. If your skeptical of the strength of carbon do some research, aluminum is not even in the same league, especially the cheap stuff manufacturers use. this is all subjective and can only offer my own real world experiance which is certainly not as vast as some others out there.

 

[tdbaugha]

Drop another 40-50 pounds with a skid, ti a-arms, seat, pipe, chromoly steering post, lightweight brake rotor, ti bolts, and carbon fiber bars and that would be just cheating!

How does the C3 chassis address the TCL? Did you have any belt problems on either of the 800's?

 

[KMMAC]

Three

I hope some of you find this thread usefull as it has cost me a but load of money to provide this information with first hand experiance. also if this sounds a bit advertisy, sorry, but I do have to promote my shop White Knuckle Motorports at some point.

I put almost 2000kms on a superlight chassey this year, carbon fiber proclimb and around 500kms on cutler turbo proclimb 800 stage 2 and a couple 100 kms on a m1100 turbo with hijacker and clutching. I have tried to be as impartial to each sled as I can. Here are the findings, for those who are on the fence as too what to build, purchase, or aquire.

2012 M1100 Turbo $32000 611lbs full of fuel
mods include
carbon fiber hood
cold air intake
nextech skid
2.5 track
light weight battery
hindle exhaust
vented side panels
seat
knee pads
slp skis
tunnel bag
hid head light
post forward kit
40 hrs labour

pros
great out of the box power
economical to get hp out it
230hp in the hills with clutching and airbox mod, pulls real nice
great handling and light while moving
great fuel mileage

cons
yes your tired at the end of the day
sucks being stuck
sucks to wrench on, lots going on under the hood.
deep and steep performance is not quite there.

2012 proclimb 800 turbo $25000 585lbs full of fuel

mods
cutler stage 2 kit
built motor
post forward kit
shock upgrade
seat
vented panels
a few other goodies

pros
amazing power
makes you giggle like a little school girl
easy tuning
very capable hill climber

cons
heavier than stock
harder on fuel
race gas $$$
maintainance intervals are frequent
a bit less bottom end than stock, making the technical tree riding a littler tougher.

2012 Carbon Fiber proclimb 800 $30000 460lbs full of fuel

mods
carbon tunnel, tank, hood all C3 powersports
c3 belt drive
tapps clutch C3 design
cold air intake
slp skis
vented panels
shock wave helix

pros
super light, easy to move around
amazing handling
extremely agile
stock motor, no maintanance
fuel and go
tireless riding
never worried about being stuck on your own
super flotation
very good climbing and boondocking capabilities
tough as nails

Cons
expensive initially


I have ridden 2 stroke turbos for the last 7 years and think i have turned a corner. I know believe that a light well thought out chassey will outperform anything out there on a day to day basis, taking into account, riding energy, wrenching, durability, reliability and general ability to continue to put a smile on your face. it does not have power like the 4 stroke or turbo 2, but does not need it. you are never tired of riding it, never sore the next day. you can just throw it in the trailer and know its going to run the next day. you can abuse it on the hill and hardly ever wreck it. theres nothing to tune. it literally will make you a better rider. We can and will build you any sled you want but i would put stock in this chassey dollar for dollar. if your ever on the fence give us a call at white knuckle motorsports and i will drag this thing out for you to try and you can decide yourself. i could go on and on as too why the pros and cons far out weigh the pros and cons of the first options, but i don't think i need too.

I would like to see a three banger in one of these!!!! 250 horse would be a start....

 

[mike_s]

sled was up and running with 2 strips of aluminum and some rivots, will finish the year this way and then fix it properly with $100 worth of carbon and resin. If your skeptical of the strength of carbon do some research, aluminum is not even in the same league, especially the cheap stuff manufacturers use. this is all subjective and can only offer my own real world experiance which is certainly not as vast as some others out there.

There is alot to be said about riding home with a bent aluminum tunnel, VS trying to figure out what to do with one that is snapped in half. Yes, carbon fibre is strong, but it wont bend and stay in one piece. It will break.

 

[Going West]

Drop another 40-50 pounds with a skid, ti a-arms, seat, pipe, chromoly steering post, lightweight brake rotor, ti bolts, and carbon fiber bars and that would be just cheating!

How does the C3 chassis address the TCL? Did you have any belt problems on either of the 800's?

Soild mount to replace the tcl bushing in th proto. Production is going to get a 100 duro mount, stock is about 20-30 duro.

 

[m8magicandmystery]

There is alot to be said about riding home with a bent aluminum tunnel, VS trying to figure out what to do with one that is snapped in half. Yes, carbon fibre is strong, but it wont bend and stay in one piece. It will break.

well thats being a pretty pessimistic rider if ya look at a bent tunnel verses a broken one..like isn;t the possibilities of either reletively remote for us average guys especially if were boondockers..??

And i could pack the carbon fiber sled out on my shoulders with a good pair of snowshoes...you have to hire a helicopter to get the aluminun sled out..
See how the views can go back and forth..??

Me i would go carbon fibre..im getting old..i still have to haul wood into the house after the ride..

 

[polaris dude]

Just curious, how come you guys haven't done carbon fiber on the prormk or the nytro?!? I'd love to see just how low a sled could go! the only reason I could think of what that the pro chassis is the chassis that has the least amount of weight to lose? and the yammi maybe the engine is heavy enough that reducing chassis weight would increase the feeling of being nose heavy?

 

[JustBoostIt]

Understanding carbon fiber

After spending a week in Kevin's shop learning what is involved from A-Z with carbon fiber there is no way I would build something from aluminum that you could build with carbon fiber, and I'm a capable TIG welder. Depending on how you layer what materials in what order into the mold determines the rigidity/flexibility of the final product. You can make any piece as flexible as you want or as strong as you want. No different than different types of aluminum.

As a cf manufacturer there is a line you have to dance, the stronger I make it (ie. more layers) the heavier it gets.....and that is the whole point of changing a piece to cf in first place. When I was doing the hood for the cf 1100 we built I put extra material into spots that I knew were going to be weight points for rolling etc. Each piece can be made according to customer if you want to be that fussy. Kerry's tunnel is what a regular cf tunnel is. Most regular guys don't try Monster on a stock sled. $100 is going to fix that to good as new, the aluminum....not so much. Kevin on his personal sled will build it lighter, for my 1100 I would go a few extra layers. It would cost me a couple lbs, and make me sleep better. I know how I treat my stuff just like everyone else does theirs. I know what my sled has to endure and build accordingly.

As far as Nytro pieces, Kevin knows the demand is there....his time is not. He has trouble keeping up with pieces he builds now. After seeing the time it took from pulling the mold to finished product he did from our 1100 over the summer he had to basically shut his production of other parts down for 3 months. He is full out all the time. The Poo is on his radar, but again, shut down other stuff to build it, now his other stuff includes Cat. Not to mention he is a very fussy guy to say the least. Quality will not be compremised for quantity and we can all appreciate that.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

If you have the money to spend why would you even look at a pro, take the cat and mod it the way I have mine with CF and you have a better sled with a real motor.
I think I would be running the HCR cooler, that way you could rip the tunnel clean off and stay running, if it ever happened.

When I have the money, I'll go for it.

 

[knifedge]

--I was leaning towards a lightweight chassis and a 925 big bore.. 9-10,000 ft elevation really draws down the power unless turboed.

-what is the elevation of Monster? around 7-8000?

 

[WKR]

Just curious, how come you guys haven't done carbon fiber on the prormk or the nytro?!? I'd love to see just how low a sled could go! the only reason I could think of what that the pro chassis is the chassis that has the least amount of weight to lose? and the yammi maybe the engine is heavy enough that reducing chassis weight would increase the feeling of being nose heavy?

the doos and cats have the most too lose for the money. the pro will still cost 10g to carbon fiber but you will still hit the 375lb thresh hold. pound for dollar it makes more sense to focus on the doo and cat. I can say this though C3 is starting very shortly on the pro chassey. should be a real runner.

 

[wasatchcomm]

a 460lb (wet weight) 925 bb in a cat would be a thing of beauty!!!

 

[Latitude 62]

My biggest interest is in the C3 belt drive. When can I get one, cost, weight loss, and what gear configuration?

 

[WKR]

My biggest interest is in the C3 belt drive. When can I get one, cost, weight loss, and what gear configuration?

you can get one in the next 2 weeks, $1250, 15 pounds weight loss if you premix your sled, 7 pounds if you keep the stock injection. any gear configuration you like, almost. drop me an email kerry@wkms.ca

 

[WKR]

a 460lb (wet weight) 925 bb in a cat would be a thing of beauty!!!

stay tuned, trying to get a cutler 950 kit before the end of the season and get a few days on it.

 

[geo]

So does the belt drive mount the other end of the jackshaft solid, or do you still include a moving jackshaft?