5 Mountain rides in, pros and cons

[tenacious84]

Now factor in the difference with the engine mounts and is it possible the 858 overall will be lighter? Say what you want, but the engine is worthless without the mounts so at the end of the day it should be factored into the total engine weight. What is not exactly clear in that last sentence is, are they talking just the engine or the whole sled?

the engine plate is part of the chassis. you don't get a new engine plate when you order a new engine.

 

[MC1K]

So the chassis for the 600 is different than the 858? They way I understand it when the 858 became unattainable due to component delivery issues for the Catalyst release last year, an adapter called an engine plate was made to put the old 600 hundred in the new Catalyst chassis. The 858 does not need said engine adapter plate and neither will the new 600 when it arrives. The engine bolts directly into the chassis, so it makes more sense to consider the engine plate weight as part of the engine mass.

 

[tenacious84]

the basis for my position isn't the difference of a couple pounds here or there, it's the fact that as a passionate consumer, i hate being lied to and call it out whenever i see it. in this case there must have been a mistake made along the way and instead of correcting it, they chose to double down on it.

Also, their supposed 10% weight savings claim is looking more and more false by the day. country cat publishes the production specifications sheets that ship with the vehicles under their technical information link at the top of their website. Per those documents the estimated dry weights of some of the 2024 models are shown below. Obviously there is no direct comparison for the catalyst 600, but this list does add some food for thought.

2024 M600 non-ES 154" 3.0 = 432 lbs
2024 M8000 Hardcore non-ES 154" 3.0 = 456 lbs
2024 M8000 Mountain Cat non-ES 154" 3.0 = 445 lbs
2024 M8000 Mountain Cat non-ES ATAC 154" 3.0 = 448 lbs

 

[tenacious84]

So the chassis for the 600 is different than the 858? They way I understand it when the 858 became unattainable due to component delivery issues for the Catalyst release last year, an adapter called an engine plate was made to put the old 600 hundred in the new Catalyst chassis. The 858 does not need said engine adapter plate and neither will the new 600 when it arrives. The engine bolts directly into the chassis, so it makes more sense to consider the engine plate weight as part of the engine mass.

you are correct with the storyline and need for engine mount plate. the engine mount plate was also used in the previous chassis. i understand your position, but i disagree. the mount plate is a chassis component that was present on the previous model and simply not necessary when the 858 is mounted in the catalyst chassis.

 

[Chewy22]

the basis for my position isn't the difference of a couple pounds here or there, it's the fact that as a passionate consumer, i hate being lied to and call it out whenever i see it. in this case there must have been a mistake made along the way and instead of correcting it, they chose to double down on it.

Also, their supposed 10% weight savings claim is looking more and more false by the day. country cat publishes the production specifications sheets that ship with the vehicles under their technical information link at the top of their website. Per those documents the estimated dry weights of some of the 2024 models are shown below. Obviously there is no direct comparison for the catalyst 600, but this list does add some food for thought.

2024 M600 non-ES 154" 3.0 = 432 lbs
2024 M8000 Hardcore non-ES 154" 3.0 = 456 lbs
2024 M8000 Mountain Cat non-ES 154" 3.0 = 445 lbs
2024 M8000 Mountain Cat non-ES ATAC 154" 3.0 = 448 lbs

On the 2024 M8000 is there really a 9 lbs difference between coil shocks and air shocks?

A few things that are interesting on the 2024 M6000:

1. Back to a steel track/drive shaft
2. Back to an aluminum torque plate
3. Steel outer tube on the running boards

How much weight does that add?

I know quit adding fuel to a pointless conversation, but it's Friday afternoon, been a long week at work and this is a fun distraction.

One more thing, can someone point to marketing materials or a interview where someone from Arctic Cat specifically states the mountain chassis will see a 10% weight reduction. In my personal conversations with the engineers/reps last spring, it was clear the mountain chassis would not see that big of a reduction; other chassis yes but not the mountain.

 

[BeartoothBaron]

I'm 100% with you, @boondocker97, on heavy sleds! I got a little riding in on a turbo nytro a few years ago, and the power was nice, but nothing hides that much weight on the snow, let alone stuck. I'm not saying a few pounds is what you should be choosing a sled over though (especially if you're working off the manufacturer's "statistics"). They're all so close now that the heaviest on paper should be your choice if it's the one you ride best on.

So far I've only done the cheap weight reduction stuff. It's easy to waste money on things like Ti hardware (other than rotating mass), considering how little it gets you. On the other hand, if you've got some money and do things in the right order, you should be able to kill off 20-30lbs before you get into the $300/lb territory. Realistically, at some point I'll probably spend a couple thousand (probably not getting into Ti or CF) and stop there; I'm not doing that with my current sled though...

I do take the advice of looking at everything on the sled, including that thing in the mirror, to heart. Just don't get stupid: a few things to get you through a night or stop your bleeding is good weight. And, of course, ride more. A bone stock sled will feel lighter after a month of consistent riding than a Ti/CF wonder even could if you're hopping on it cold. This winter has really screwed that one over though...

 

[Mafesto]

They way I understand it when the 858 became unattainable due to component delivery issues for the Catalyst release last year, an adapter called an engine plate was made to put the old 600 hundred in the new Catalyst chassis. The 858 does not need said engine adapter plate and neither will the new 600 when it arrives. The engine bolts directly into the chassis, so it makes more sense to consider the engine plate weight as part of the engine mass.

This totally clears up any confusion on my part. Thanks for posting that.

 

[ratlover]

A few things that are interesting on the 2024 M6000:

1. Back to a steel track/drive shaft
2. Back to an aluminum torque plate
3. Steel outer tube on the running boards

How much weight does that add?

Arctic Cat Hardcore Running Boards - Skye Blue - 2024 M Catalyst

Arctic Cat Hardcore Running Boards - Skye Blue - 2024 M Catalyst - 8639-466

www.countrycat.com

I think was mentioned hardcore aluminum boards are 4#’s less than the composite boards. Seems quite a bit? Guessing they got the number from the part description. With the lighter weight and reports of guys breaking the rear piece not sure why a guy wouldnt run the aluminum boards if it was an option. Guessing Cat can make the composite boards cheaper so they go that route.

Lite weight is a big deal to me with as many times as I got to roll my sled over or dig it out a day

 

[Pinchecharlie]

Pretty much a worthless addition to the thread. Your welcome

 

[Griff]

Some good info above on weight speculation. It's all around performance that I am looking at for my purchase decision, total package. Weight is part of that and I am hoping Cat pulls the M7 trick out of the hat again. Run a great chassis, lighter than the rest, with the best powder track against the others playing the boosted hp game for the win. Ready to be back on a Cat here.

 

[turboless terry]

Pretty much a worthless addition to the thread. Your welcome

I had seen that video earlier in the day. Pretty impressive only adding 2 pounds of weight with kit. The other cool thing was there was only a 1 pound difference from side to side. For people griping about the weight, it was only 1 pound heavier than what Harris had for their wet weight on a 9r and it was way lighter than anything else i seen. Cat was saying 10% early on and then they said the m sled might not quite make it. Someone needs to weigh a 155 kaos boost and see the difference. 510 pounds vs ? You can also feel the weight on a boost. I bet you can't on the ibexx kit with how it's packaged. The only thing is you will be possibly 18ish to 20k for the sled and $6500 for the turbo and no warranty.

 

[Chad_Brochill]

the basis for my position isn't the difference of a couple pounds here or there, it's the fact that as a passionate consumer, i hate being lied to and call it out whenever i see it. in this case there must have been a mistake made along the way and instead of correcting it, they chose to double down on it.

Also, their supposed 10% weight savings claim is looking more and more false by the day. country cat publishes the production specifications sheets that ship with the vehicles under their technical information link at the top of their website. Per those documents the estimated dry weights of some of the 2024 models are shown below. Obviously there is no direct comparison for the catalyst 600, but this list does add some food for thought.

2024 M600 non-ES 154" 3.0 = 432 lbs
2024 M8000 Hardcore non-ES 154" 3.0 = 456 lbs
2024 M8000 Mountain Cat non-ES 154" 3.0 = 445 lbs
2024 M8000 Mountain Cat non-ES ATAC 154" 3.0 = 448 lbs

Cat never said the mountain sleds will achieve the 10% goal, they stated multiple times that the 10% is for models like the ZR. They did go on a diet, but the most important thing is the chassis. Nobody will know which one feels lighter and easier to ride until they get their hands on an 858 catalyst and have an 850 poo and doo to ride in the same day too. Yes overall weight does matter, but as cliché as it sounds it also matters where that weight is relative to the rider. Cat has clearly gotten the heavy parts like the motor closer to the rider than any other brand with the new chassis. I'm sure with future models too the catalyst will get lightened up here and there too, similar to the ascender. Everyone's gotta get so worked up eh?

 

[IDspud]

As a passionate consumer one should realize ads and promotions, like politics, are never about strictly facts.

 

[rkm]

Cat never said the mountain sleds will achieve the 10% goal, they stated multiple times that the 10% is for models like the ZR. They did go on a diet, but the most important thing is the chassis. Nobody will know which one feels lighter and easier to ride until they get their hands on an 858 catalyst and have an 850 poo and doo to ride in the same day too. Yes overall weight does matter, but as cliché as it sounds it also matters where that weight is relative to the rider. Cat has clearly gotten the heavy parts like the motor closer to the rider than any other brand with the new chassis. I'm sure with future models too the catalyst will get lightened up here and there too, similar to the ascender. Everyone's gotta get so worked up eh?

I have an 800 catalyst and it is much easier to ride than a Pol. Outpulls it too.
858 will be an eye opener for a lot of Polaris riders.