Best power adders for the pro climbs

[cbc24]

Hey Guys, I built a 14 m8000 into a 141 lil machine and was wondering what are your recommended power adders?

This sled wheelie but it feels like it upshifts too fast or doesnt have enough power to keep it going. Id like it to be spicy and try to cure the “proclimb bog”.


I do have a line up on a used bikeman stage 2 pipe kit but idk if they are worth it and if I should just go to a y pipe, reeds and power commander

 

[IDspud]

First thing you need to do is figure out what’s wrong with your sled.
None of my sleds have ever had this “bog”, and they’re pulling 3” 162’s.
Sounds like your clutches need help.

Bike man pipe will make enough power to require a weight change.

 

[boondocker97]

Full Bikeman 900 kit will make it wheelie as long as you want it to.

 

[cbc24]

First thing you need to do is figure out what’s wrong with your sled.
None of my sleds have ever had this “bog”, and they’re pulling 3” 162’s.
Sounds like your clutches need help.

Bike man pipe will make enough power to require a weight change.

Every proclimb ive had has had a random bottom end bog, and it would happen about 50% of the time when you would need a perfect run into a climb lol. My friends all cured theirs by installing a y pipe and modding intakes. I had my 15 pretty dialled without a fuel controller. I do think the clutching needs love, ive rebuilt the primary and have yet to go over the secondary. Idealy id like the new 16 team clutches, but was not sure if they fit the older jack shaft?

After owning my 18 mountain cat its pretty hard to even compare, it makes the old zuki feel like a 600. So id like to get a lil more juice out of it and get it crispy. It has all stock secondary, yellow gn primary spring and 68 gm weights.

 

[IDspud]

To me it sounds like you’re describing a clutch issue, possibly specific to your elevation and stock mapping.

 

[Betterview]

The bottom end bog on the 800 Zuke is an issue I had on my 800. I believe it is a clutching issue. I fully cured it by getting the belt tight, getting the belt to sheave clearance down to .0020 or less, and maybe most importantly loosening the weights so they swung freely when installing. This eliminates that bit of overshift from the clutch slamming in on engagement, or by an overshift at a real slow speed caused by the overtightened weight sticking just a bit and jumping in a little too far when accelerating quickly. I had a few thousand miles on mine when I made the changes and went many thousand miles after with it never happening again. (These changes survived several clutch freshenings and new reeds)

 

[spoon]

On both of the 800s I still have I installed 2018 clutching and zero bog and noticeable increase in bottom end response. The 2012 I rebuilt last year and put 2016 clutching on was better than the 2012-15 clutches by far but still not as good as the 2018 no deflection setup.

 

[sno*jet]

i agree it sounds like clutch(s) need work. I think a 14 might need new jackshaft to swap team clutches on. Probably good thing to do anyways, werent they prone to snapping on older models? That and the aluminum link between the motor and there. Upgrade that to a 17+ if you want to get spicy. Check that thing for cracks asap, could cause bog if its broken.
The Y-pipe is a good little mod, adds a little grunt. I have the SSI, was gonna do the D&D but i got a deal. I have that and a Diamond S can and when I jump from mine to 18s and 19s the only area I notice theirs have more go is right off the line. Actually felt my zuke had more upper mid-top but could be I maintain clutches better. I might do the SSI pipe mod next.
Im a fan of the 16-17 teams for less overall expense initial and upkeep.

 

[boondocker97]

Definitely need to swap the jackshaft to run the 2016+ secondary. I personally don't think there was much of an issue with the 2014-2015 secondaries unless it's just worn out. AC updated the jackshafts for one year in 2015 because some of the 2012-2014 shafts were breaking. Here is that kit: https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat-1702-467-driven-shaft-kit-2012-2014-zr-f-xf-m-800-8000

I have a used 2015 jackshaft kit and a used 2017+ TCL and bearing holder I would sell if anyone needed them.

 

[cbc24]

I did replace all the motor mounts and links on this, I Built this thing mostly because the dealership was purging all older zuki stuff so I got nearly everything (spindles, laydown post with turcotte block, motors mounts, frame support for steering post, rails etc for cost or free) So now im being frugal on sled season and selling my 18 to build a better race bike for enduro next year lol Hoping I can make it through the year on this ol girl.

I will pull the primary apart and double check it, the bushings were tight on the buttons but I was hoping it would wear in a little bit. Also going to make a tool and pull apart the secondary, do you guys recommend spending the money on buying a deflection tool/ aligner? It does seem like it is sitting too low into the secondary. If I remember correctly it was also only pulling 79-8000 rpm. I have suspicions that the secondary may have a broken spring or is worn. Its got 1900 miles with zero maintenance. Any recommended things to do on these secondary's? I was looking into the cpc belt deflection float mod for the secondary.

Also what is comp spec on these old girls?

 

[cbc24]

FyI I ride from 4500-8000 ft avg

 

[summ8rmk]

Zukes have a fuel/ oil issue causing a bottom end bog(pre clutch engagement), exasperated when pointed down hill.
7900-8000rpm is perfect for a zuke with stock pipe.
Ctec's are so crisp and clean on the bottem end, the zuke will never match that. Mod-Top end is similar.

Proclimb belts don't stick out past the secondary sheaves much.

Jaws pipe adds some top end power.

 

[cbc24]

Zukes have a fuel/ oil issue causing a bottom end bog(pre clutch engagement), exasperated when pointed down hill.
7900-8000rpm is perfect for a zuke with stock pipe.
Ctec's are so crisp and clean on the bottem end, the zuke will never match that. Mod-Top end is similar.

Proclimb belts don't stick out past the secondary sheaves much.

Jaws pipe adds some top end power.

Exactly what I thought was happening! Don't shoot for 8100-8200 rpm? Engagement is around the 3800-4000rpm range so that part of the primary is good. I always thought it was a super fat bottom end that would cause that issue. I wasnt thinking it was purely clutching as its when you chop the throttle to get over a hard obstacle it would bog blaaah and get you stuck and tired. If it was a clutching thing, I think it would happen more often and consistently.

However I do feel as if it is shifting up too fast, you can get it to lift up and drag the bumper but then it will drop the rpm like its upshifting the secondary too much ( I think) and drop the skis down.

I know the Y pipes arent that great so I may just port it myself.

 

[sno*jet]

I like to shoot for 8200 down low then when you are in playland and its holding 8100-8150 consistently it will do what you want. yours sounds like a backshift issue - secondary/worn belt maybe. I dont care for 7900, feels slower even if its making power.
I was looking for new thrust washers for the sides of the weights on my team and noticed thunder products makes some stuff for the cat clutches, one of them looks like it addresses the issue Betterview was talking about.
If anyone knows where to get replacement thrust washers for the team let me know, the dealerships want $17 a piece and you need 6, and its just a friggin washer.... just when I thought mine was low costs

 

[BradM8]

Not sure if you've already relocated your air temp sensor to right by the throttle body or not but its worthwhile and free. It cleaned up my 14 and 17 significantly on the bottom end bog.

 

[Betterview]

I did replace all the motor mounts and links on this, I Built this thing mostly because the dealership was purging all older zuki stuff so I got nearly everything (spindles, laydown post with turcotte block, motors mounts, frame support for steering post, rails etc for cost or free) So now im being frugal on sled season and selling my 18 to build a better race bike for enduro next year lol Hoping I can make it through the year on this ol girl.

I will pull the primary apart and double check it, the bushings were tight on the buttons but I was hoping it would wear in a little bit. Also going to make a tool and pull apart the secondary, do you guys recommend spending the money on buying a deflection tool/ aligner? It does seem like it is sitting too low into the secondary. If I remember correctly it was also only pulling 79-8000 rpm. I have suspicions that the secondary may have a broken spring or is worn. Its got 1900 miles with zero maintenance. Any recommended things to do on these secondary's? I was looking into the cpc belt deflection float mod for the secondary.

Also what is comp spec on these old girls?

If your buttons are a little tight that will lead to a sticky or irregular upshift. A bit of stick will give a rise in RPM above peak power resulting in a quick release .of the stickiness and a sudden overshift and a seeming loss of power. If you have not continually removed washers from the driven to keep less than an inch of sag in the belt after coasting to a stop, you will have a poor performing sled. After letting my weights swing free, keeping belt to sheeve clearance below .0020 and keeping belt slack at less than an inch, I was able to run a little less weight in the drive clutch and never had to deal with that notorious bog or bothersome loss of power in on off throttle chops.
Part of the seemingly better low end power of the Ctec is the use of a free swinging weight. That weight also has less mass near the heel and more at the tip allowing the engine to build more RPM quickly on the bottom end.

 

[nadrojcote]

Not sure if you've already relocated your air temp sensor to right by the throttle body or not but its worthwhile and free. It cleaned up my 14 and 17 significantly on the bottom end bog.

Did this plus a team primary and seems to have fixed mine, but didn't have much time on it last year. I'll find out this winter.

Power valve adjustment being off a bit can cause an issue in the top end that feels like upshifting too fast as well.

 

[boondocker97]

Bad reeds can contribute to bottom end bog too. Something else to check and maybe replace with some performance petals or full Rage Cages while you're in there.

 

[cbc24]

I have done the sensor relocate closer to the throttle bodies, I finally tore into it last night, the airbox is full of oil of course, then the secondary rollers were sloppy, the helix has some wear , bushings are a bit loose but not enough to cause an issue. the plastic ramp guides are damaged and worn though. so ill have to find those, already replaced the rollers tonight. any reccomendations on a helix? it has the stock 36 degree, I had a dual ramp on my 15 but never could tell a difference.


@Betterview That kinda sounds like what it was doing, however I am not sure as that was last year! I never knew how to play with deflection on these until I stumbled across a video randomly a couple days ago.

 

[Readymedic]

Just to keep in mind, the sensor relocate didn't work on my 14 HCR, it barely ran. Moved it back right away. The 36 is good for legs.
The Rage Cages are a great addition too..
If going to a pipe, I say stay away from the DynoJet Power Commander programmer. it took out my ECU, $2500 gone. Highly recommend the Boondocker..easier system, works different.