team secondary

[dunatyk]

Does the team come with good assembly instructions

 

[White Rad]

Does the team come with good assembly instructions

Yes it comes with great instructions. My advice: you will need a spring compressor that allows you to get at the shaft while the spring is compressed to get this snap ring on. I had to modify my all thread rod and washer set up by cutting one wall out of a 3x2in box tube around 8in long and using this piece to push the spider down allowing me to get at the snap ring on the side i cut out. Most importantly you will need a pair of major external snap ring pliers because normal ones will not open the snap ring far enough and you will damage the shaft if they slip off. Other wise align the balance marks "X" and putting the helix in is cake.

 

[dunatyk]

How about the Team industries compression tool? Will this work. I have one that i have used for my diamond drive secondary and was wondering if this will work

 

[Insaneboltrounder/sjohns]

Yes it comes with great instructions. My advice: you will need a spring compressor that allows you to get at the shaft while the spring is compressed to get this snap ring on. I had to modify my all thread rod and washer set up by cutting one wall out of a 3x2in box tube around 8in long and using this piece to push the spider down allowing me to get at the snap ring on the side i cut out. Most importantly you will need a pair of major external snap ring pliers because normal ones will not open the snap ring far enough and you will damage the shaft if they slip off. Other wise align the balance marks "X" and putting the helix in is cake.

MAJOR snap ring pliers !!!

 

[White Rad]

MAJOR snap ring pliers !!!

I wasn't kidding! I narrowly avoided buying the nice $60 snap on tools ones!

 

[Insaneboltrounder/sjohns]

The 2 pair i had didnt go half way. I spent 50 for a pair of OTC pliers.

 

[GlennRMK]

Anyone have some updates on how the team is working with what springs and helixes?

I'm still waiting for mine to show up.

 

[Insaneboltrounder/sjohns]

I'm curious to hear as well. Be nice to hear that the belt blowing went away. Geo is running the tied and mds weights and hasnt seemed to have any probs.

 

[GlennRMK]

Got mine today.

Everything went on easy.

I noticed in the directions say TEAM has an alignment bar for this clutch.

Looked really close to me though. Looked like .030" difference. So I removed a .030" shim from behind the secondary.

Anyone else have the alignment bar? Anyone know the bar offset?

Anyways, if we get some snow this week I am hoping to test it out. I am running the following

71/55 .46 ER helix
Red/Black 140/240 spring

 

[dunatyk]

Glenn
I belevie it is 1.43 on the offset. The cat bar is 1.485. At least thats what my instructions read. Was your float plug sloppy? Mine is ,plan on machining a new one

 

[GlennRMK]

Update:

Tried the clutch yesterday. Seemed to work very well.

My current setup is:
TEAM Tied 71/55 .46 helix, Red/Black spring
Cat 68 gram light tip weights with yellow/green primary spring
I rode mostly around 9000 ft

I was little short on RPM with the clutch. Seems like I lost about 200 RPM. Was running 7900-7950 RPM.

However, the backshift is much better and the upshift is ton better. Clutch feels a lot smoother to me. Holds RPM perfectly in every situation I put it in. Trackspeed was up but one day I will have swap a stock secondary back and forth to give an exact MPH increase.

Big question was clutch temps. Secondary runs much cooler then before and is now a little cooler then the primary. Secondary was always much hotter before. Clutches are still pretty warm but felt similar in temps to my buddies 10 M8.

So, my next step is to put my Dalton weights from my 11 M8 in. They are the 63 to 71 gr adjustable, similar to the Cutlers. I thought they would be too light to run in this sled, as I was running around 70 grams in my 11 M8. But since I stepped down to the yellow/green and added the TEAM clutch, they may work. I might have to load them all the way up.

Also, I plan on gearing down to a 20 tooth on top. I will post more info as I get it, but very happy with the clutch so far.

 

[White Rad]

Just did 250 miles in the last four days in incredibly deep snow. Spent an entire day swapping between stock secondary and team tied also trying both with and without my motor mount/torque arm connected. Geared down to a 20tooth half way through the day and did another 50 miles. quick summary is the team tied with the 20tooth gear and motor mount arm is working incredibly well. Gearing down helped temps, gained a few mph track speed and made it so snappy off the bottom its unreal. I still cant get my rpms back up. This is for 3-6k elevation 70/57 .46 helix red/black spring. I went from 73grams to the 71.5 and AC gold spring. Still only spinning 78-7900 rpms. Hate to pull more weight but unless team trades me for a helix with 55 and 57 finish angles I may need to grind the weights to 70. Would love to try the mds but just too much $$ after getting $500 deep in the clutch.

This is for another thread, but the team tied does more for the belt issue than the motor mount by itself, and the gearing helps temps significantly also. More snow on the way so i'll keep testing. 250 miles on same belt pinned WFO all day and we got 5ft out of this storm cycle. I would have corded at least 5 belts with stock set up...

 

[NoSoup4U]

Had my second ride yesterday with the Team Tied. Put 40 miles on in deep, deep powder so I was able to work the clutch pretty good. The clutch did get very hot, but it was not hotter than the 09 and 10 M8's that I was riding with. The belt still looked good after the ride with no pulled cords and no belt dust to speak of. I really like this secondary over the stock one. It is much more consistent and pulls hard everywhere. Track speed is low to mid 40's in the deep powder, which is higher than i got with the stock secondary. I am running the following at 7500-9000 ft elevation and it pulls 8100 +/- 50 in the deep powder:

71-55/.46 helix
red/black secondary spring
cat yellow/green primary spring
Cutler 65-75 adjustable weights with the shortest plug in the tip tightened until it hits the stop and the second shortest plug in the heel tightened until it hits the stop.

Since I put the Team secondary on I have noticed a rattle on the clutch side of my machine that I only hear when putting around at maybe 5-10 MPH. It is not when I decelerate, but when I am just cruising. I can't tell if it is coming from the Team secondary or somewhere else. I thought maybe it was the clutch cover rattling or the clutch fan rubbing on the side panel, but I pulled them off and rode down the trail and could still hear it. Anyone else notice this noise?

 

[White Rad]

Had my second ride yesterday with the Team Tied. Put 40 miles on in deep, deep powder so I was able to work the clutch pretty good. The clutch did get very hot, but it was not hotter than the 09 and 10 M8's that I was riding with. The belt still looked good after the ride with no pulled cords and no belt dust to speak of. I really like this secondary over the stock one. It is much more consistent and pulls hard everywhere. Track speed is low to mid 40's in the deep powder, which is higher than i got with the stock secondary. I am running the following at 7500-9000 ft elevation and it pulls 8100 +/- 50 in the deep powder:

71-55/.46 helix
red/black secondary spring
cat yellow/green primary spring
Cutler 65-75 adjustable weights with the shortest plug in the tip tightened until it hits the stop and the second shortest plug in the heel tightened until it hits the stop.

Since I put the Team secondary on I have noticed a rattle on the clutch side of my machine that I only hear when putting around at maybe 5-10 MPH. It is not when I decelerate, but when I am just cruising. I can't tell if it is coming from the Team secondary or somewhere else. I thought maybe it was the clutch cover rattling or the clutch fan rubbing on the side panel, but I pulled them off and rode down the trail and could still hear it. Anyone else notice this noise?

I believe the rattling is the secondary rattling on the jackshaft splines. I have noticed it also at slower speeds but i would say it happens whenever im off the throttle. I put some grease on the jackshaft splines and for the first part of the day rattle was gone until the grease moved around. I think if the float plug fit tighter it would help the rattle also. I also have a lot of rust colored rust on the jackshaft shaft and bearing. not sure if its from the bushing or wear on the splines from the rattling?

Aslo, the washers being sent for behind the secondary and the float plug are the wrong ones. The float plug washers are too big diam. and can catch on the inside splines of the clutch and keep it from floating.

Another 3-4ft of denser snow this weekend and i tried 70g weights. Still not gaining RPM's it feels like the secondary is wearing the pants in the relationship. Seems like it keeps upshifting and wont let the rpms build. In this snow i would see 7400-7600 rpms on big pulls.....I think this helix is just too much. Rode with a pro rmk that had the tied and they have the same helix as i got and i was working great but they run such a different primary set up (64gram weights stiffer spring) not sure if the 70/57 helix is going to work for me i dont want to pull anymore weight!

 

[GlennRMK]

Mine seems to be working well. 2 rides and around 100 miles on it. Belt is looking really good. Clutch temps are way down and shift is way smoother and faster. Track speed seems to be up.

I do hear the noise. I kinda think its the rust between the clutch and the the jackshaft that is causing the noise. I put some more grease on as well. I'm not too worried about the float plug. Seems fine to me. Its a different noise then the chattering you here with the stock secondary.

I'm trying some different weights to get my RPM up. Then I should be able to comment on performance. Hoping to try out the different weights Wednesday.

I'm running the yellow/green primary but might also have to try yellow/white.

I have a Black/Purple and Red/White TEAM spring to try as well. Mine holds RPM all day long, so I might be able to go softer on the secondary spring.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

White Rad, are they running the same spring in the pro, and can you tighten the secondary spring.

 

[White Rad]

White Rad, are they running the same spring in the pro, and can you tighten the secondary spring.

no tightening of the secondary spring...you need to replace it with a different spring. Guy on the pro i rode with was sure his had the same red/black spring as mine.

This relates to the belt issue and really complicates tuning the tied clutch more but.....I have a prototype Carlisle ultimax belt I have been running. This belt drops my rpms by 400 and made a huge difference in belt temps (cooler) running the team clutch. I put 400 hard miles on the ultimax belt and could not pull a cord if i wanted too. Went back to the cat belt yesterday and my rpms were up considerably and so were the belt/clutch temps! This was an earlier cat 083 belt that came off a sled at the dealer. It was also obvious only the top half of the 083 belt was touching the sheaves where as the ultimax belt appears to be in full contact. Even if the ultimax belt uses softer/stickier compound I think the only way to explain that much rpm and temp difference is the 083 belt slips like crazy!

So if you tune your team clutch for an 083 belt and it turns out they are cut at the wrong angle and are slipping excessively you may be way down on rpms with an updated belt or different brand.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

400rpm of slippage, thats f'd up

 

[aksnopro]

I can feel that 400 rpm i still smoke my 10 m8 even with the slipping though

You can feel the slip at engagement and all the way up the r's...

I hate it i can tell theres so much to be gained in clutching!!!

-Aksnopro

 

[snosumitcsr]

well lets not let this thread die, hows the tuning going?

rod