MPI/Yamaha Viper turbo 250+hp upgrades

[Matt@MPI]

Starting with the base MPI turbo kit offered through Yamaha you have options to build 250hp using the original turbo. We installed the intercooler, stronger waste, fuel pump, and 4th injector to achieve these results. All of these parts and be purchased individually to reach your desired results.<O</O
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The intercooler upgrade kit includes everything you need to make the upgrade: Intercooler, stronger waste gate, Billet blow off valve, hoses, and everything you need to complete the upgrade. The intercooler is a must have when wanting to run anything over 8# of boost. <O</O
MPI part# mtv-1100 $1449.00

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The fuel pump kit is also needed we trying to run over 8# of boost. This pump kit uses a return style with a 1:1 regulator so you have the right fuel pressure at the rail based on boost pressure. <O</O
MPI part #HSK-1168 $319.95 <O</O
<O</O

The 4<SUP>th</SUP> injector kit will deliver extra fuel based on boost pressure. This 4<SUP>th</SUP> injector allows for the stock injectors to remain in place. This is a great way to deliver extra fuel beyond what the factory injectors can deliver. This allows the stock injectors just to do their job. All of our intercooler have the intercooler weldment installed for easy upgrades in the future. <O</O
MPI part #HSK-1169 $449.00<O</O
<O</O
For those that would like to stay on pump gas we offer a thick head gasket and head stud kit. We offer to different thickness based on altitude. The stock head bolt should never be re-used so included in the kit will be a set of high quality ARP studs, washer, and nuts. <O</O
MPI part #HSK-1170 $299.99 6000/ft+<O</O
MPI part #HSK-1171 $299.99 Below 6000/ft<O</O

 

[christopher]

This is looking NICE and CLEAN!!!

 

[roughrider99]

4th injector fogging the intake before the intercooler? looks cheap and inefficient in my opinion, fuel will gum up that intercooler and reduce its ability to cool air, plus you never know if all cylinders are getting even amount of fuel from the 4th injector. but then again this is the cheapest horsepower money can buy.

 

[yamahajohnson220]

4th injector fogging the intake before the intercooler? looks cheap and inefficient in my opinion, fuel will gum up that intercooler and reduce its ability to cool air, plus you never know if all cylinders are getting even amount of fuel from the 4th injector. but then again this is the cheapest horsepower money can buy.

I hope you are wearing your big boy pants because this is gonna hurt...

 

[Matt@MPI]

4th injector fogging the intake before the intercooler? looks cheap and inefficient in my opinion, fuel will gum up that intercooler and reduce its ability to cool air, plus you never know if all cylinders are getting even amount of fuel from the 4th injector. but then again this is the cheapest horsepower money can buy.

The 4th injector worked surprising well! Sorry if it looks cheap to you, we put a lot of time into it. We try not to run fuel in our sled that will gum up stuff up? Its actually pretty efficient when 10# of boost hits that fuel! We do know that all the cylinders get the same amount of fuel. We are trying to provide a cheap and efficient method then slamming in larger injectors.

 

[christopher]

4th injector fogging the intake before the intercooler? looks cheap and inefficient in my opinion, fuel will gum up that intercooler and reduce its ability to cool air, plus you never know if all cylinders are getting even amount of fuel from the 4th injector. but then again this is the cheapest horsepower money can buy.

And is your opinion based on any real world experience?

It's easy to build horsepower and solve problems if you are not worried about throwing tons of cash at it.

What's hard, and seldom done anymore, is solving the problem in the most COST EFFICIENT manner for the consumer. Doing more with less takes time and effort. Every once in a while the KISS principle really shines through.

Based on the years of riding MPI boosted sleds I can say with some degree of authority, these guys KNOW how to make more horsepower for less dollars than pretty much any company in the industry.

If Matt says the 4th injector solution works, you can pretty well rest assured he is not blowing smoke up your butt.

 

[tt m1000]

What's up with the gems controller?

Ride steep and deep!!

 

[Turbo11T]

The 4th injector worked surprising well! Sorry if it looks cheap to you, we put a lot of time into it. We try not to run fuel in our sled that will gum up stuff up? Its actually pretty efficient when 10# of boost hits that fuel! We do know that all the cylinders get the same amount of fuel. We are trying to provide a cheap and efficient method then slamming in larger injectors.

Just wondering obviously cost would be a factor but why not run 3 smaller injectors in the top side of the intercooler spraying directly down the throttle bodies? I to feel like the 4th injector fogging the air charge preintercooler is something that does not seem desireable to anyone performance minded. Just lots of volume in the intercooler to be fuel rich when I chop or slam the throttle closed.

 

[Matt@MPI]

Just wondering obviously cost would be a factor but why not run 3 smaller injectors in the top side of the intercooler spraying directly down the throttle bodies? I to feel like the 4th injector fogging the air charge preintercooler is something that does not seem desireable to anyone performance minded. Just lots of volume in the intercooler to be fuel rich when I chop or slam the throttle closed.

There's not a lot of room under the hood of the Viper right were it turns into the throttle bodies. The 4th injector isn't supplying a lot of fuel. It only turns on at higher boost levels. If we were to rely on it more than yes I would agree that it could pool up, but its not enough to matter. All intercoolers that leave our shop will have the base weldment already added, you simply and the injector for a little extra help.

 

[christopher]

What's up with the gems controller?

The GEMs controller...

I will be perfectly honest here, I have a Love / HATE relationship with this device.

I spent quite some time talking to the boys at MPI this afternoon and evening. We had a good long chat, and the GEMs unit came up.

Good News / Bad News.
They are still using the GEMs unit.
But, its NOT the same GEMs unit that we have seen on all the Nytros for years.

This year they have completely updated the GEMs program rebuilding all of the internal code.

Yamaha runs their engines using a MAP system.
Arctic Cat uses a TPS.

This change in control systems forced MPI to start over from scratch on building up a control system for the Yamaha Genesis engine that is now controlled by Cat engine management hardware/software.

Major PITA for MPI.
Big Win for all Viper drivers.

GONE is that annoying air tube that was always coming undone from the GEMs unit, and many of the little "quirks" that would have to be hand tuned by Mac to perfectly dial in the turbo or supercharger.

What we will get this year, is a system that has been RIGOROUSLY tested by Yamaha Corporation to ensure full engine warranty status AND EPA tested to ensure emissions compliance.

I think it can honestly be said, this will be THE BEST engine control system that MPI has ever released to the market, and should be COMPLETELY DIALED IN the moment you install it, needing NO custom adjustments.

And this last little detail is WHY they chose NOT to ditch the GEMs unit. Because they believe their software mapping is so tight, there is little or no need for the end user to get into the code and "tweak" it. Of course only time will tell, but as for "ME" I can honestly say my rather long conversation with both Mac and Matt left me feeling VERY ENCOURAGED about this new turbo kit.

I did NOT realize that this is NOT the same turbo kit that they have been selling for the Genesis engine for many years.

New Turbo
New Intercooler
New Electronics

The only parts that are in common with the nytro kit are the Nuts, Bolts and Fasteners. Everything else is brand new to this unit specifically for the 2015 Viper.

 

[BOOSTD]

In the picture it clearly shows the gems box with the traditional vacuum line hose. Is this one piggybacking the main injector box and using boost for reference?

 

[TurboM700]

4th injector fogging the intake before the intercooler? looks cheap and inefficient in my opinion, fuel will gum up that intercooler and reduce its ability to cool air, plus you never know if all cylinders are getting even amount of fuel from the 4th injector. but then again this is the cheapest horsepower money can buy.

Right on, any 1st yr engineer student would know that is not a good placement for that injector. Yes it make work "well" but its far from ideal. Run the sled on a side hill stop and catch your breath then carry on I will gurantee that the inner cylinde will bog due to fuel pooling.

And is your opinion based on any real world experience?

It's easy to build horsepower and solve problems if you are not worried about throwing tons of cash at it.

What's hard, and seldom done anymore, is solving the problem in the most COST EFFICIENT manner for the consumer. Doing more with less takes time and effort. Every once in a while the KISS principle really shines through.

Based on the years of riding MPI boosted sleds I can say with some degree of authority, these guys KNOW how to make more horsepower for less dollars than pretty much any company in the industry.

If Matt says the 4th injector solution works, you can pretty well rest assured he is not blowing smoke up your butt.

I can tell you that I have run flow simulation on both 2 stroke turbo, 4 stoke turbo with different plumbing to them. Side load an intercooler is less then ideal as far as pressure across it goes but it works ok and for lower boost you would never notice it.

The old M7 turbo that 1st came out they would side load an air box from the Mag side. Guess what the PTO side would alawys run lean. I decide one day to draw the manifold up and do some flow studys on it. By side loading it there wouldb 13% less flow to the PTO cylinder. An intercooler helps with this but greatly but you can still see my point.

To me the biggest concern is if you are a throttle happy type of a guy and you off and on the throttle any.

Whats going to happen with the fuel that is injected into the intake side of the intercooler?

Now you have a BOV less then 4" away from the 4th injector. What do you think will happen when that BOV opens when you chop the throttle? What do you think will happen to the extra fuel in the intercooler?

Now for the scary part!!! Your climping a hill a WOT and flip this bad boy over. Shut your motor off get the sled right side up and have to hold the throttle wide open to get her to start again. Anyone ever done this????
Now in the case of a back fire you have a intercooler with fuel in it. Can you say BOMB.

I'm by no means saying this wont work, it just not the right way todo it and the cons out way the pro's

Mike

 

[christopher]

In the picture it clearly shows the gems box with the traditional vacuum line hose. Is this one piggybacking the main injector box and using boost for reference?

That was the only image I could find last night to paste into this post.
That is the previous generation that I have on my Nytro

 

[christopher]

Right on, any 1st yr engineer student would know that is not a good placement for that injector. Yes it make work "well" but its far from ideal. Run the sled on a side hill stop and catch your breath then carry on I will gurantee that the inner cylinde will bog due to fuel pooling.

I can tell you that I have run flow simulation on both 2 stroke turbo, 4 stoke turbo with different plumbing to them. Side load an intercooler is less then ideal as far as pressure across it goes but it works ok and for lower boost you would never notice it.

The old M7 turbo that 1st came out they would side load an air box from the Mag side. Guess what the PTO side would alawys run lean. I decide one day to draw the manifold up and do some flow studys on it. By side loading it there wouldb 13% less flow to the PTO cylinder. An intercooler helps with this but greatly but you can still see my point.

To me the biggest concern is if you are a throttle happy type of a guy and you off and on the throttle any.

Whats going to happen with the fuel that is injected into the intake side of the intercooler?

Now you have a BOV less then 4" away from the 4th injector. What do you think will happen when that BOV opens when you chop the throttle? What do you think will happen to the extra fuel in the intercooler?

Now for the scary part!!! Your climping a hill a WOT and flip this bad boy over. Shut your motor off get the sled right side up and have to hold the throttle wide open to get her to start again. Anyone ever done this????

Now in the case of a back fire you have a intercooler with fuel in it. Can you say BOMB.

I'm by no means saying this wont work, it just not the right way todo it and the cons out way the pro's

Mike

Hey Matt, you probably want to address this with a full seasons worth of actual mountain riding, testing and Yamaha certification last year to assuage his concerns..

 

[die hard poo]

Push Turbo used a fuel injector on his Polaris turbos in the charge pipe way upstream to aid in cooling the charge temp and atomizing the fuel. I can see this helping being upstream of the cooler, more residence time for the fuel to properly mix with the air, and cool the hot air coming in from the cold fuel in your tank. Cody Phillips recorded IAT drop with the vipec ecu with the additional injector on the polaris. So it should help at least.

 

[TurboM700]

Hey Matt, you probably want to address this with a full seasons worth of actual mountain riding, testing and Yamaha certification last year to assuage his concerns..

I dont care if they have 20 yrs of mtn riding and testing. Anytime you inject fuel before the throttle plates you will have the issues listed above.

As I said early will it work OK. Sure will. Are they leaving HP, and driveabilty on the hill absoutley.

Christopher Why did you switch from MPI gem control to Jeff's PCV controller?

Push Turbo used a fuel injector on his Polaris turbos in the charge pipe way upstream to aid in cooling the charge temp and atomizing the fuel. I can see this helping being upstream of the cooler, more residence time for the fuel to properly mix with the air, and cool the hot air coming in from the cold fuel in your tank. Cody Phillips recorded IAT drop with the vipec ecu with the additional injector on the polaris. So it should help at least.

Have your rode a push turbo sled before? They are one of the worse running turbo sleds I have put a leg over!!! There is a reason MPI and yamaha are together and not yamaha and Push.

 

[Matt@MPI]

Stock Viper VS. Stage 1 MPI Turbo.

 

[christopher]

Now in the case of a back fire you have a intercooler with fuel in it.
Can you say BOMB.

I dont care if they have 20 yrs of mtn riding and testing. Anytime you inject fuel before the throttle plates you will have the issues listed above.

.

Ya, well, I DO CARE, and I am pretty sure that if Yamaha Corp thought the MPI system was going to result in their Viper Sleds EXPLODING IN A BALL OF FLAMES as a BOMB, they probably wouldn't sign off on it...

One of the funny things about Yamaha is that they tend to be just a little bit ANAL in their engine testing process. Its one of the reasons they build the longest lasting engines in the industry that stand up to Long Term Boost application like no other engine out there. If they had any inkling of this as a serious product liability issue, there is ZERO CHANCE they would have signed off on it.


But.
We really need to let MPI jump into this discussion and offer their own input based on real world riding and testing.

 

[Turbo11T]

Ya, well, I DO CARE, and I am pretty sure that if Yamaha Corp thought the MPI system was going to result in their Viper Sleds EXPLODING IN A BALL OF FLAMES as a BOMB, they probably wouldn't sign off on it...

One of the funny things about Yamaha is that they tend to be just a little bit ANAL in their engine testing process. Its one of the reasons they build the longest lasting engines in the industry that stand up to Long Term Boost application like no other engine out there. If they had any inkling of this as a serious product liability issue, there is ZERO CHANCE they would have signed off on it.


But.
We really need to let MPI jump into this discussion and offer their own input based on real world riding and testing.

With respect to all party's involved I want to point out that the system that MPI is selling to Yamaha does not run the 4th injector I do not beleive. I do see it as an appealing"easy" upgrade for the guys who buy the MPI YAmaha kit. I think the performance minded guy who wants 280hp likely will not start with the MPI kit because it is just that a base kit. Good components but pretty base.

Also I have wondered for a few years now, and even more now that the ECU on the Viper/7000 is redesigned over the nytro, why they(yamaha,Cat) add the support for the sensors needed for a turbo? Cat knows how to make it happen. They have the experience in turbo'ing a 4 stroke. The problem is the 1100 has some handicaps as for as mountain riding. That being said if the ECU was capable(maybe it is) Wouldn't yamaha/MPI marriage be further ahead if when the MPI turbo accessory kit was install you add a couple sensors that plug directly into the harness and a new map is downloaded into the ECU that would unlock the ECU's ability to recieve data from these and input it into the "turbo" mapping? This is what I would love to see and I think that they would sell 50% more turbo kits. Maybe the EPA is all over that and that is the issue? Not sure. I saw that the turbo is marked EPA compliant at haydays.

 

[stingray719]

Right on, any 1st yr engineer student would know that is not a good placement for that injector. Yes it make work "well" but its far from ideal. Run the sled on a side hill stop and catch your breath then carry on I will gurantee that the inner cylinde will bog due to fuel pooling.





I can tell you that I have run flow simulation on both 2 stroke turbo, 4 stoke turbo with different plumbing to them. Side load an intercooler is less then ideal as far as pressure across it goes but it works ok and for lower boost you would never notice it.

The old M7 turbo that 1st came out they would side load an air box from the Mag side. Guess what the PTO side would alawys run lean. I decide one day to draw the manifold up and do some flow studys on it. By side loading it there wouldb 13% less flow to the PTO cylinder. An intercooler helps with this but greatly but you can still see my point.

To me the biggest concern is if you are a throttle happy type of a guy and you off and on the throttle any.

Whats going to happen with the fuel that is injected into the intake side of the intercooler?

Now you have a BOV less then 4" away from the 4th injector. What do you think will happen when that BOV opens when you chop the throttle? What do you think will happen to the extra fuel in the intercooler?

Now for the scary part!!! Your climping a hill a WOT and flip this bad boy over. Shut your motor off get the sled right side up and have to hold the throttle wide open to get her to start again. Anyone ever done this????
Now in the case of a back fire you have a intercooler with fuel in it. Can you say BOMB.

I'm by no means saying this wont work, it just not the right way todo it and the cons out way the pro's

Mike

Please read again that this 4th injector is only adding a very small amount of fuel to the existing map. Do some research on your own to see how little fuel that is please.

LOL, if you run fuel that will gum up an intercooler I want to see it. Still laughing about that one.