Lean conditions on M8 2011 Push HP PG.. Need advices

[03cobra]

Hello guys

I have a 2011 M8 sled with Push HP Turbo kit with 2 injectors and no cooler running at 1500-4500ft

I cannot get the sled below 13.0 AF on WOT and 1260f at best EGT when I had turned the fuel pressure to 50 psi

I am running 114LL race gas so the numbers should be lower, The turbo is boosting 5 psi

When I got the kit the numbers on the EFI attitude was

was now
Green 1 1
Yellow 1 2
Red 8 8
green/blue 4.5 8
yellow/blue 4 3.5
Red/blue 4 3.5


Egt was 1300+ and AF nearly 14

I changed the numbers and cranked up the fuel pressure to 50psi( goes up to 55 at boost) but I only get the AF to 13 and the sled is obviously not good at low rpm

Something is just not right, I should see much lower numbers on race gas at 5psi boost

What could be my problem ? injectors maybe or something else ?

Thanks in advance

 

[Dirty10]

Seems really high for fuel pressure I am running at 38. I would go to 6 maybe is 7.
Green Blue 6.5
red 4
fuel pressure 38
just my 2 cents

 

[03cobra]

Seems really high for fuel pressure I am running at 38. I would go to 6 maybe is 7.
Green Blue 6.5
red 4
fuel pressure 38
just my 2 cents

yes the pressure is high but if I go lower than that the EGT temps will see 1400+ :face-icon-small-sad

 

[shawkins]

You might have a few things hurting you. Fist off I have an OVS pump gas kit.
1. The stock pump sometimes is a limiting factor on how much power you can make. I have a bypass in the tank and an external pump. If the intank pump can't keep up the bypass opens and the external pump keeps up with the demand.
2. I have a 4:1 reguator to help push fuel to the injectors during boost. You have a 1:1. You can only flow so much fuel per pound of fuel pressure through your injectors at a given duty cycle.
3. The program in your fuel injector controller might be limiting how much fuel you can get past the injectors. OVS has their own program writen to trick the box into giving the injectors more on time. Thus delivering more fuel.

Try a good fuel pressure gauge installed inline and watch to see if your pressure drops while you are pulling a hill. If it does your pump is not keeping up. Second if the fuel pressure is good you might be maxing out your duty cycle on the fuel injector controller. At your elevation that is very possible at 5 psi. You can also try turning down the boost to 4 psi and see if your AFR reading is richer.

 

[03cobra]

You might have a few things hurting you. Fist off I have an OVS pump gas kit.
1. The stock pump sometimes is a limiting factor on how much power you can make. I have a bypass in the tank and an external pump. If the intank pump can't keep up the bypass opens and the external pump keeps up with the demand.
2. I have a 4:1 reguator to help push fuel to the injectors during boost. You have a 1:1. You can only flow so much fuel per pound of fuel pressure through your injectors at a given duty cycle.
3. The program in your fuel injector controller might be limiting how much fuel you can get past the injectors. OVS has their own program writen to trick the box into giving the injectors more on time. Thus delivering more fuel.

Try a good fuel pressure gauge installed inline and watch to see if your pressure drops while you are pulling a hill. If it does your pump is not keeping up. Second if the fuel pressure is good you might be maxing out your duty cycle on the fuel injector controller. At your elevation that is very possible at 5 psi. You can also try turning down the boost to 4 psi and see if your AFR reading is richer.

Thanks Shawkins for the answer

I pulled the fuel pump out and it looks like it is not stock walbro, there is a metal piece on the bottom piece of it but when I checked in another M8 2011 it had white plastic bottom piece, but I am not 100% sure, the fuel pressure doesn't drop atleast what I have seen

I was going to drop the boost but the sled has a Tial external wastegate so I have to order a new spring

Where do I get 4:1 regulator and is the attitude programmer (push efi controller) programmable ?

Another thing, I am always riding with 2010 M8 Boondocker pump gas sled that is boosting 7psi and he only sees 1240 egt max and 11.8 AF max on 93 fuel, is the fuel systrem in BD sleds different or are they with larger injectors ?

thanks in advance

 

[Coxy]

Mine was acting similar. Fuel pressure cranked up, fueling numbers maxed out just to keep it ragged edge "safe". Turns out in some chatting with Spoon, that he figured my attitude box had the wrong program in it. He plugged it in, and bingo, had a 4 injector program in it when I'm only running 2 injectors. Flashed the box, fuel pressure back to 38, and fueling numbers backed down to logical areas.

 

[JasonAK]

Are you running the 2011 or an 07-09 Head?

Are you using a timming Key? To retard the timming at all?

Jason

 

[03cobra]

Mine was acting similar. Fuel pressure cranked up, fueling numbers maxed out just to keep it ragged edge "safe". Turns out in some chatting with Spoon, that he figured my attitude box had the wrong program in it. He plugged it in, and bingo, had a 4 injector program in it when I'm only running 2 injectors. Flashed the box, fuel pressure back to 38, and fueling numbers backed down to logical areas.

Yeah that might be the reason, great to hear I am going to check the attitude box, thanks

Are you running the 2011 or an 07-09 Head?

Are you using a timming Key? To retard the timming at all?

Jason

I have the 2011 head but i am waiting for an 09 head so I can go on 50% pump gas

I dont think it has a timing key, I thought the attitude box would draw timing, but I might be wrong ?

 

[rabbitm7]

I run and aerocharger with push turbo fuel set up i also run aux injecters you should try turning your red blue way up the way race fuel and pump fuel burn is differen't it seems to be a pretty big factor when to bring the fuel in at when i run pump fuel i have turned down to about 2 and i would think with race fuel you probably would want it at about 7 you shouldn't have a problem making it work with what you have for fuel set up and with a fuel pressure set at about 40 and you'll probably have to turn both yellow and green blue up to about 7 i first tuned mine in mn at 5psi and had no problem running 10psi at 10000 ft at 12 afr or lower just need to play with the box more. I noticed you have yellow blue listed on your numbers list so you must have aux injector control box but if your only running stock injectors your box may not be programmed right.

 

[mmsports]

Running out of fuel?

1 Make sure it builds fuel pressure when it builds boost. I was fighting a similar issue and I had cut my O ring when I installed my pressure reg . So when I gave it gas I lost fuel pressure " Install problem" fixed it made sure it built pressure and did fixed my little issue of climbing temps. Just got back from a great ride 2ft of fresh pow pull as long as hill as I can find and EGTs never get over 1128 7lb of boost 2011 stock motor 2 gal of 112 no octane issue at all.

 

[mmsports]

Fuel

So more or less you are running out of fuel and you can not fix that with Octane.

 

[03cobra]

So more or less you are running out of fuel and you can not fix that with Octane.

Yes, the problem is what is causing the lack of fuel.. the pump holds pressure, the pressure goes up 1:1 on boost, attitude box is in max fuel settings, 50 psi of fuel pressure, 114LL race gas and still lean condition.. So after what I have read from the guys above I think the attitude box is the problem or I need 4:1 regulator, but that would be strange that only my Push turbo sled would need 4:1 regulator but other 1:1, but what do i know :face-icon-small-hap

 

[mmsports]

try new program .

I am not saying a 4-1 is a bad idea but your bottom end has to suck.

 

[shawkins]

The program in the controller has to match the regulator you use. The 4:1 regulator gives you a higher boost range you can run before having to run 2 more injectors. My sled is set at 42 psi at idle and goes up to 70 psi at 7 pounds of boost. I would run your sled with a liquid filled gauge you can see and see what the fuel pressure is doing before condeming the program. You need to eliminate that first. What are the lights on the box doing when you are at full throtle? Are all of them red and are all 8 lit up? Unless the box has been tricked like mine the number of lights lit up and the color tell you the mode you are running in and the duty cycle of the injectors.

 

[sweperformance]

Does Push still use the BDX intank pressure reg? In that case, read this.. http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2308787

 

[03cobra]

Does Push still use the BDX intank pressure reg? In that case, read this.. http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2308787

I read your post few days ago and the regulator was the first thing I checked and he rises pressure 1:1 but i am going to change the fuel system like you did

The program in the controller has to match the regulator you use. The 4:1 regulator gives you a higher boost range you can run before having to run 2 more injectors. My sled is set at 42 psi at idle and goes up to 70 psi at 7 pounds of boost. I would run your sled with a liquid filled gauge you can see and see what the fuel pressure is doing before condeming the program. You need to eliminate that first. What are the lights on the box doing when you are at full throtle? Are all of them red and are all 8 lit up? Unless the box has been tricked like mine the number of lights lit up and the color tell you the mode you are running in and the duty cycle of the injectors.

The sled came equipped with 4 gauges from Push, liquid oil pressure, liquid fuel pressure, boost and AEM AF gauge, so I see the fuel pressure well on wot, I have to contact PUSH, but they are hard to get a hold of, so i am trying to fix it myself. The box is in the hood, I have to take it out of the hood and see if the all red lights are on at Wot

I am not saying a 4-1 is a bad idea but your bottom end has to suck.

Yes, this has to be the attitude box program, do you know of someone who is running 4:1 on 2010-11 Push Turbo ?

 

[shawkins]

So what does your fuel pressure do on a long pull?

 

[03cobra]

So what does your fuel pressure do on a long pull?

Goes 5 psi up and holds there

 

[harf69]

i really believe your going to need an 09 head at your elevation no matter what unless you try c16 fuel i think your running too much compression for 1500ft just my opinion

 

[Sparx]

From my personal opinion with similar issues here's what I gather from 400miles of testing at high and low elevations on my Tial setup OVS RG turbo:

High A/F ratio or EGT temps, 100% related to fueling.
-Either not enough fuel volume, or not enough injectors
-Possibly your box isn't fueling your sled on boost and it's actually the box, but your sled isn't getting the fuel it requires or is asking for in the end at the motor....

Too much compression from the new HO motor cylinder heads or not enough octane (pump gas fuel or av gas at too high of boost)
-You will set off the DET sensor and see Octane 21 code on the display and ECO mode until you shut the sled down and restart
-If you don't get the DET code, you have enough of octane & not too much compression(both related) so you don't need a lower compression head until you up the boost slowly and trip the DET sensor, then you need a higher octane fuel or you need to lower the compression and get the '09 head or modify your current head....

More from my experience. I had to run 9-10lbs boost at 2000ft in 2ft of snow to trip the DET sensor just barely with straight 100LL AV gas. Same fuel at 7250ft would just set off the DET at 15lbs of boost or so.

Take your box out from under the hood, you need to see this thing clearly when tuning and running to help diagnose problems. I recently found I was having similar issues on my last trip and that the box was sticking in the low boost(green/blue) mode and not supplying fuel at WOT on hard pulls leaning out and showing high A/F readings. I believe either my lines to my fuel controller are frozen or plugged. If your box isn't getting the correct signal under boost it won't be trying to add more fuel through the injectors because of this. Took me 125miles to figure this out on my sled, ran great up until under boost hard then would sputter like it was on the rev limiter and lean out....