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Intermittent spark issues

T
Hey all,

I have a 09 M8 HCR with a CPC stage 3 turbo. Ever since I put the turbo on (and had it checked out by the dealership to make sure I did everything right) the sled has had a bottom end bog issue. I mean bog to the point that it'd throw me over the front cause it died bog (more than once, more than lots actually).
After checking everything that I did I more or less dealt with it. Finally last ride out on it the sled died on me and I had to get towed out again.

After beating my brain trying to figure it out, fuel, compression but no spark, I had to take it in to the dealership. Turns out the reason that it died was a ground wire behind the steering post that I had no clue about.

Got that fixed and since I was there I complained about the bottom end bog that I've complained about numerous times. So we throw it on the dyno and the sled puts out a whopping 140hp before it would die. Not too shabby! I was more happy that it wasn't my imagination that was making me think it wasn't running right than that impressive HP number.

So I leave to let the mechanic figure it out because who really likes having someone watch over your shoulder while you work. I hear back later that it was the Ignition coil pickup sensor (Or somethingamajig like that). Perfect. Problem found. So three weeks goes by and my sled still wasn't ready. Talk to the mechanic after missing a ride because the sleds in their shop with the parts in but no one working on it. Now that it's during the week again and he's worked on it (I have no issues with the mechanic, I think he's good at what he does) he's had it running and back together, thrown on the dyno, pulls 275hp at 13#s boost.

Problem is that it'll do 3 or 4 pulls and then completely dies. Won't fire in limp mode or anything. I believe he lets it sit and cool off for awhile (not 100% sure because I don't stand over him, he's the mechanic and I'm not, he knows what he's doing and I don't) not too sure how long it sits. So far it's done this a few times.

Talked to him today (this is week 6 or 7) and he says the intermittent spark is getting worse. I didn't ask him too many questions because at this point all I want to do is freak out on that dealership and he's a nice guy.

I'm not sure if he's checked the stator, I would imagine that he has but I don't want to ask him and possibly insult him without meaning to. He said that this sled is the only one that he has ever seen do this. It's the only stage 3 that's in town, they have done a bunch of stage 2's.


Has anyone ever seen this issue before and have an idea what might be causing this? I just want my POS arctic cat back.

Thanks.
 
N

never enough snow

Active member
Dec 7, 2008
244
44
28
Try 3 or 4 pulls with by pass on and see if it happens . After temp senser over heat mode sets in they are hard to start even with bypass !
 
N

never enough snow

Active member
Dec 7, 2008
244
44
28
If no codes on speedo then i think a stater is a good thing to test. I have had a stator that died when hot then when cold work again it meter out fine when tested
 
M

minecat

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2007
495
121
43
49
Winnemucca, Nevada
very interestd in what you find out my M1000 does the exact same thing I have the temp switch in it and have already tried 2 new stators, I have also checked all of my wiring and have found nothing wrong
 
T
Dec 1, 2007
43
2
8
I had the exact same thing happen to me, 09 m8 hcr w/bypass switch, i was told once the over heat code is sent to the ecu it stays in there for awhile, mine had to sit over night. I replaced the temp sensor in the case and hasnt done it again, but i still have that bottom end bog right off the handle bar(1000-3000 rpm)and if i dont feather the throttle in to it the sled will die, seems like a lean condtion to me but i cant figure it out.
 
T
Hey Minecat,

We've given up on the cutler stage 3 kit. Everything needed for a stage 3 is going back and being replaced with a stage2. Mine was the only stage 3 installed up here and it's the only sled that's had problems. I'm happy with a bit less HP for a good running sled so hopefully this cures it.

trk800
That bog was one of the bigger frustrations. Breaking trail up creeks it got me stuck in the bottom more than once because right when I'd need power it'd die. Very frustrating. More than once (probably more than a 100 times) I've been wishing for my old 99 xc 700 polaris instead of my cat.
 
P
Nov 9, 2009
32
0
6
intermittent spark

I just bought an 08 m8 and I seem to be having the same problem. Works perfect when it is cold but after i0 min of riding it starts to miss. I also get some boging issues on the bottom end ocasionally. The problem is intermittent and can be more or less sevre at times. It can be missing alot and then I'll shut it off and restart 5 min latter and it will run perfect and then 10 min later it will start to miss again. I have noticed that when it misses the speedo needle will jump around eraticly. Also my 02 meter blanks out briefly. I think there is short in the wiring somewhere. I have a buddy with a 2010 m8 who was having a similar issue and the mechanic found a problem in the wiring harness to the handle bars. He replaced it and problem solved. I tried disconecting the harness last time out and it ran almost perfect all day. I will have to get out again too see if this is the answer but if anyone else wants to try it only takes a min to remove the cover plate(3 screws) and disconnect the harness. Let us know if this works for anyone else. you will lose functionallity of your kill switch and handlebar warmers when you dissconect this harness. I'm not sure if I will get out again this spring to confirm this but it's worth a try. Finding intermittent electrical issues is a pain in the ***.

June 9: Located the problem and it is the throtle position sensor. removed it from the sled and it metered out fine cold but when I heated it up it stopped putting out a reading.
 
Last edited:

WyoBoy1000

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 27, 2007
11,213
3,928
113
Red Lodge MT to North, CO
Put a temp gauge on it and see what its doing. My (only piped) m1000 will run great for a while and then get the bad bog off bottom. I added around 7+ at low 3000 on the bd box and 5+ at mid 3000 and it almost went away (fine tuned it from there). Last time I left the bottom fat and it never bogged but it did seem to run rich on bottom for a while. Something is throwing it into a lean mode. I've been thinking it may be the idle is falling to far down and getting out of the stock map but who knows. As for the lack of spark good luck. How many miles are on the sled.
 
A

ACMtnCat

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
2,348
1,359
113
Utah
I know this is not just a CPC kit problem, seen this on a Boondocker kit also. Twisted must have this also cuz they also install a switch.
Does Shain have a fix for this?

I just purchased a RG kit and have a friend installing on my M8 and don't want to deal with this type of problem!

What is the secret to this problem that seems to be on allot of these turbos?
 
Last edited:
H

hatchers

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
3,688
1,428
113
North Utah
www.snowestonline.com
this is a very common problem with these boosted cat M8s......and has made me almost give it up

what to do:
- let it idle for at least 15secs before you shut it off

what to do when it wont start:
1- turn the kill switch to on (so it wont start and fuel cant be pumped)
2- pull the cord 3 times
3- now turn the kill switch off (ready to run)
4- now hold and throttle down (WOT) and pull the cord, it starts the very first time, feather the throttle a bit to keep it running.....this is working very well for me

i dont use the temp bypass sensor anymore, becuase this works 100% of the time:light:

another thought, i tried this on freaks CPC sled and it did not work, but he was pulling the rope for a few minutes before i jumped in, so its hard to say.....regardless, i would be on a elec start M6 turbo this year if i did not fix this or find a way around it......its bloody painful pulling the rope for 30 mins
 
Last edited:
H

hatchers

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
3,688
1,428
113
North Utah
www.snowestonline.com
Hey all,

Problem is that it'll do 3 or 4 pulls and then completely dies. Won't fire in limp mode or anything. I believe he lets it sit and cool off for awhile (not 100% sure because I don't stand over him, he's the mechanic and I'm not, he knows what he's doing and I don't) not too sure how long it sits. So far it's done this a few times.
.

this is the way my sled acted when i had a bad fuel pump
 
A

ACMtnCat

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
2,348
1,359
113
Utah
this is a very common problem with these boosted cat M8s......and has made me almost give it up

what to do:
- let it idle for at least 15secs before you shut it off

what to do when it wont start:
1- turn the kill switch to on (so it wont start and fuel cant be pumped)
2- pull the cord 3 times
3- now turn the kill switch off (ready to run)
4- now hold and throttle down (WOT) and pull the cord, it starts the very first time, feather the throttle a bit to keep it running.....this is working very well for me

i dont use the temp bypass sensor anymore, becuase this works 100% of the time:light:

another thought, i tried this on freaks CPC sled and it did not work, but he was pulling the rope for a few minutes before i jumped in, so its hard to say.....regardless, i would be on a elec start M6 turbo this year if i did not fix this or find a way around it......its bloody painful pulling the rope for 30 mins

So... No solid fix to this? Not every turbo M8 has this problem, do they? There's no way every TM8 has this!

No one has a sure fix? Thermostat delete or override or chip to fix this?

What exactly makes this happen?
 
H

hatchers

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
3,688
1,428
113
North Utah
www.snowestonline.com
What exactly makes this happen?

engines cool down much faster then the turbo itself...they both share the same coolant system. So the engine temp is reading high when its actually low....some call this a "hot restart" or a time when a engine needs less fuel to ignite

My way around it is pretty simple actually, never more then 4 pulls, and it happened maybe 5 times last year
 
T
Dec 1, 2007
43
2
8
I just bought an 08 m8 and I seem to be having the same problem. Works perfect when it is cold but after i0 min of riding it starts to miss. I also get some boging issues on the bottom end ocasionally. The problem is intermittent and can be more or less sevre at times. It can be missing alot and then I'll shut it off and restart 5 min latter and it will run perfect and then 10 min later it will start to miss again. I have noticed that when it misses the speedo needle will jump around eraticly. Also my 02 meter blanks out briefly. I think there is short in the wiring somewhere. I have a buddy with a 2010 m8 who was having a similar issue and the mechanic found a problem in the wiring harness to the handle bars. He replaced it and problem solved. I tried disconecting the harness last time out and it ran almost perfect all day. I will have to get out again too see if this is the answer but if anyone else wants to try it only takes a min to remove the cover plate(3 screws) and disconnect the harness. Let us know if this works for anyone else. you will lose functionallity of your kill switch and handlebar warmers when you dissconect this harness. I'm not sure if I will get out again this spring to confirm this but it's worth a try. Finding intermittent electrical issues is a pain in the ***.

June 9: Located the problem and it is the throtle position sensor. removed it from the sled and it metered out fine cold but when I heated it up it stopped putting out a reading.

I thought it seemed like a TPS problem but everyone talked me out of it, that will be the first thing i change when the snow fly s thanks for the help. TRK
 
T
Finally after a little while my sled is running again.

Final problems were:

Intermittent spark= a ground wire that is down on the bulkhead, pretty much directly behind the turbo, but inside the bulkhead rather than outside it like the turbo.

Bottom end lag (came shortly after the turbo was put on)= Couldn't figure out this lag issue. No matter what happened with the attitude box it felt as if it was loading up with fuel on the bottom end. You could feather it through the bog and it would pull hard. Final problem was a TPS sensor issue AND the big problem was the screws that had been locktited in had somehow backed out and my throttle bodies were falling apart. No clue how they came apart because I remember doing the throttlebodies and TPS with the mechanic and I know we used locktite.

This would explain why my turbo was the only Cutler turbo that Northgate has seen any issues with (m8). As far as I know mines the only one that has used different throttlebodies (stage 3 whereas all the others they've done were stage 2)

Hope this helps somebody down the road.
 
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