Front PTO Mount bolts on 2007 -2009 CFi's problem avoidance

[mountainhorse]

Quite a few people have brought to my attention that the front PTO motor mount bolts have been breaking off.... sometimes with BAD results... like messed up Drive clutches or bent PTO snouts.

The bolt in question is #19 in the Engine drawing below.

Here is an easy/inexpensive way to help make this area stronger and less prone to failures.

Many of you may chime in and say "I've never had a problem in 3700 miles with a turbo pulling big hills." .... this is a good thing..

And this inexpensive "upgrade" certainly can't hurt.

Polaris, by fixing the position of this front PTO mount, sure did NOT make it easy to align the clutches if they are off... lots of trial and error shimming if your alignment is off (like when you "find" a tree or rock).

And no, the torque stop is not an "Adjuster" to align the clutches. That thing is supposed to be sitting with clearance between it and the motor.

Torque Stop Bumper-to-Engine Gap
.010 - .030 (.25 - .75mm)

The front PTO mount on the 2007 Thru 2009 IQ RMK's is different than the other 3 in that it uses a bolt into the bulkhead through the isolation mount rather than a stud that is part of the isolation mount.

Most have not had a problem, but some have... it is a cheap fix to improve the strength of this bolt... and can be done by simply removing the primary clutch...

The bolt that Polaris uses is a grade 8 all-thread bolt with cut threads... not the best of quality and cut threads to the bottom of the head further weaken the bolt.

Last week when helping out with the updated piston and turbo install on EricW's Dragon 800 I had the chance to take some pix and put my hands on the parts.

The stock bolt shown in the pic as a gold-cad plated bolt next to a high strength ARP Stainless steel bolt.

The ARP has a significant shoulder as well as rolled threads and superior strength metal. 170,000 Psi tensile along with rolled threads and a substantial shoulder.

Grade 8 has a tensile strength of 150,000 psi... but that is reduced in shear by the cut threads and the fully threaded construction

Fastenall and McMaster Carr (as well as others) have Grade 9 [L9] bolts available as well which have a 180,000 psi rating ... the cost is lower than the ARP and come in a Gold-Cadmium coated finish.
www.mcmaster.com
Part number 90201A327 $8.00 for a 10 pack.

ARP part number 615-2500 $25 pack of 5 with washers. (stainless steel)
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ARP%2D615%2D2500&N=700+0%2B115&autoview=sku

Install these with plenty of blue locktite when you install them.

Buy extras and treat your friends!!

 

[Ron]

Great post Eric, so easy why not do it before it's too late?

 

[POLZIN]

Great post! There is soooo much people don't know about fastening systems and fasteners! I have a great book on the subject If your interested ( juicy reading) I upgrade every fastener as I remove them from the sled.

 

[SNOW JW]

Thanks MH picking up a set Mon.

 

[Snowman 2001]

Great post Eric, so easy why not do it before it's too late?

I would upgrade before they break as Ron suggests. I had to pull the engine and drill the rest of the bolt out after mine broke. Much easier to change to a high quality bolt before it breaks.

 

[mountainhorse]

This bolt is pretty easy to replace... you have to remove the Drive clutch.

It takes a bit of wiggling to get the bolt out and the new one back in, but it is do-able... the smaller head of the ARP bolt makes it easier.

 

[05900]

Thanks for the info!!! I have some friends that need to get on this program with there new sleds.

 

[mountainhorse]

ttt

 

[dub]

Thanks for the info Eric!!!

 

[rab]

MH good post
where the shims you mentioned in your narative are they in that illustration ?

 

[mountainhorse]

Shims are not in Illustration.. from what I know, you have to make your own, polaris does not sell them.

You only need them if your engine is out of alignment.

As a side note, I have had my hands personally on TWO SLP alignment bars that were not even close as far as being straight, compared to the heavy duty SPX (Factory Polaris bar) the SLP was out of alignemnt (out of parallel) by over .130.

This was the 20-191 that SLP techs said to use... they dont make a different one for the Tss-04 and the tss-98 clutches.... SPX has two different part numbers for this. SPX tools are dealer order only, you cant buy directly to my knowledge.

 

[Silber]

TTT, just discovered the bolt broken on my sled

 

[Silber]

Just replaced the bolt on my 800, Dont take the engine out to do it, just remove the primary clutch and the plastic piece around the left tie rod, then thread a 3/8 lock nut onto the bottom of the bolt, you might have to tack weld it to the bolt, then screw it out, alot easier than taking the engine out, and you would mess up any alignment.

 

[mountainhorse]

I caught myself saying...... WHAAAAAT is he talking about... Then I realized you have a broken off bolt in the mount.

Clean the bolt... dry it with compressed air.. put some red locktite on a regular nut ... wait a bit and .....

 

[Silber]

Yes red loctite would probally work to, I didnt have any in the shop and didnt want to go to town to get any, so i welded the nut on, theres not much room to work but it came out with ease after a little tack weld, it must heat the factory loctite up enough to free it. Anyways it beats taking the engine out.

 

[mountainhorse]

Silber,

That is actually a GREAT idea thay you had.. I just was offering up a method to those witout welders.

If you weld on a sled... Disconnect the ecu completely... stray current could wreak havok with the chipset

 

[mountainhorse]

ttt

 

[Kraven]

Shims are not in Illustration.. from what I know, you have to make your own, polaris does not sell them.

You only need them if your engine is out of alignment.

As a side note, I have had my hands personally on TWO SLP alignment bars that were not even close as far as being straight, compared to the heavy duty SPX (Factory Polaris bar) the SLP was out of alignemnt (out of parallel) by over .130.

This was the 20-191 that SLP techs said to use... they dont make a different one for the Tss-04 and the tss-98 clutches.... SPX has two different part numbers for this. SPX tools are dealer order only, you cant buy directly to my knowledge.

Mountainhorse,

I have a 2007 D-7, checked alignment with both SLP offset tool (mine is straight BTW) and the POLARIS tool has approx .070" of "kick" built into it. Gotcha on the same tool for both lightweight (narrower tss-04) and standard (wider) tss-98 secondaries. Thus the requirement for the .100" gap between SLP bar and tss-04 per slp instructions

You mentioned shims, with BOTH ends of the engine brackets tipped up on the IQ's, I tried shimming with NO results, straightening out yielded the c/c being off, only choice was to slot the enine to bracket holes. I successfully shimmed several EDGE's , however the engine brackets were tipped up in the rear only and the fronts were straight so placing thin Chevrolet style starter shims behind the rear engine bracket worked, as long as the c/c was a little short to begin with.

My D-7 engine was "crooked" by .180" @ rear of the secondary (with the secondary slid forward to simplify the measurements) I'm aware of .100" to .120"/.140" @ the rear of the secondary per SLP. I had to slot the PTO engine bracket approx 3/8" to straighten it out.

Checked my bud's 2007 D-7, his was @ .140" difference @ the secondary. Had to slot the PTO engine bracket approx 1/4" to straighten it out.

Have you seen this on the 2007 and newer sleds or do I have a couple of Friday afternoon builds here??

 

[SnoopDrag]

Joining the club

I have almost 2000 troublefree miles on my 08 D8. Just got the lower A arms replaced and friends borrowed it for a ride while I recouped from a static -10 degree F + 40 mph wind chill frostbite. Ouch.
When they returned, they had the top half of the front PTO mount with them. It worked its way to the clutches (no visible damage) and into the footwell, dropping out on the King's big toe. I'm grateful he had the pressence of mind to pick it up, realize what it was and find the head of the bolt. Needless to say, the bolt sheered. I will let you all know how attaching a nut with locktight to the bottom turns out, and wish that I had seen this post sooner. I did the big bearing upgrade on my 00 800 preemptively, and am glad I did, as it has been a trouble free sled. I'll let you know how it turns out, but I am down for the next week or so.

 

[inverted99]

Just got the PTO side front mount in SnoopDrag's Dragon. I ended up welding a nut on the end protruding through the bulkhead and could just get a wrench on it. Snoop bought the aftermarket bolt and it was a tight fit getting it to go in the new mount, it kept hitting the engine, a little judicious prying and the engine moved just enough for it to drop in the mount. I did not have to remove the drive clutch.

It was a pain but not as bad as having to remove the engine. I took it for a test ride and after it cools down I will check to make sure the bolt is still tight, I did use red Locktite.

Thank you to this forum and the original poster for the advice on how to fix it, I was going to pull the engine originally. Take care...Jeff