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UPGRADED ARP BOLTS FOR THE QUICKDRIVE PULLEYS.

mountainhorse

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There are many attributes that make a "stronger" bolt.

Hardness, and toughness are SOME of the properties.

I agree... a high grade bolt should not break... and there must be something with the fit of the sprocket on the shaft.

The ARP bolts, I have found, to be tougher and resist more cyclic flex... plus they have some of the best QC in the business... mfg tech is top notch.

Does this fix the cause... nope... do the ARP bolts, IMO, resist the breakage more than the stock bolts... yes (again IMO) .



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B
Dec 3, 2007
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Rogers, MN
Rather than using locktite on these... I usually install Nordlock™ locking washers.

Once you have the pulleys off ... you can chase the threads in the shafts.... blow them out with some brake cleaner. Clean all the residue of locking compound off the bolts.

Then, install the bolt, using anti-sieze compound... with the Nordlock™ and the stock washer under that.

Why would you install the stock washer too? Doesn't that defeat the design of the Nord-lock washer? Looks like Nord-lock needs to bite into both surfaces (underside of bolt head and whatever the bolt is threaded into) to stop things from turning.

Rob
 

mountainhorse

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I have a chaindrive sled... but the ones with QD that I've put them on have more than 1500 miles each on them.

Why do you ask?

EDIT:I I no longer recommend the NordLock washers on the driveshaft...

Here's what I'm going with.

Clean the bolt with brake cleaner... even if new... clean the threads in the shafts with a tap (cheap at your local hardware store)... and blow out with brake cleaner... Let dry and then apply liberal amounts of the blue liquid loctite.

While none of the ones that I've installed them on have loosened... I feel that clean, oil free, threads with liberal blue locktite liquid is the best.






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B
Dec 3, 2007
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Just wanted to see if it was a tried & true suggestion or a new idea. It's a pretty critical part so deviating from standard is risky. But I like the idea. Thanks.

I am curious why you suggested using the stock washer with the Nordlock though?
 
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B
Dec 3, 2007
198
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Rogers, MN
Now that I've replaced the bottom pulley bolt for the ARP one I see why you needed to re-use the stock washer. That washer is a big one that is needed to fit over the shaft and keep the pulley on.

Given that the amount of washer that overlaps the pulley itself I'm wondering if that's part of the problem causing the wobble that ends up fatiguing the bolts?

Rob
 

mountainhorse

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I think it's a good point about the washer... a good thick, machined and hardended washer that is truly flat and parallel... and thick... would be a good add on... just compensate for the thickness of the washer with a hair longer bolt.
 

Roadbuilder

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2006 lower shaft

I have 2006 900 lower drive shaft, with out pulling it apart, would the bolt be a
3/8" x 1" bolt ? Which thread fine or coarse ?

Thanks for any help.
 

WingNutRacing

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thought

One thing I have noticed is the stock lower gears on the 15's QD are horrible, WAY TOO MUCH PLAY... NUTHIN IS GONNA CURE THAT....

The Kurts lower gear on mine still has a little PLAY, but nowhere near as much as stock. That's probably the reason I've never had any issues... Also clean and chase all threads, use 10.9 hard bolts, usually new ones, red loctite, and Nordlocks, torqed to about 50ftlbs. Seems to be workin great...
 
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Teth-Air

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One thing I have noticed is the stock lower gears on the 15's QD are horrible, WAY TOO MUCH PLAY... NUTHIN IS GONNA CURE THAT....

The Kurts lower gear on mine still has a little PLAY, but nowhere near as much as stock. That's probably the reason I've never had any issues... Also clean and chase all threads, use 10.9 hard bolts, usually new ones, red loctite, and Nordlocks, torqed to about 50ftlbs. Seems to be workin great...

You are correct about too much play on the 15's.

All years can be out of spec. but generally the 14"s seem to be the best.

You can use the ARP bolts or order from Fastenal the 12.9 socket head bolts as I did. You will need to buy 25 pc. like I did and sell to your Poo friends.

The stronger bolts may just delay the inevitable though. If the pulley moves at all on the splines you will have failure to either the bolt or the driveshaft and here is why:

The bolt head presses on the pulley (with washer) and in turn the pulley presses on the bearing. This side loading is the only thing that locks the bearing from spinning on the driveshaft. With a loose fitting pulley, every time you go from forward to reverse or even hit the brake, the pulley moves on the splines AND rotates under the bolt head. Now just imagine back and forth all day, every day you ride. The splines wear a bit but think about the interface between the bolt (washer) and the pulley. The underside of the bolt will wear into the washer (or washer into the pulley). Now the pulley and bolt get looser. Now the pulley starts rocking under the bolt head and as the underside of the bolt head does not tighten completely to the shaft, the bolt bends back and forth until it is stressed enough to pop off. This rocking is partially due to the poor design of not having long enough shafts to center float the pulley's. If your bolt simply looses and does not break, the shaft can spin in the bearing and wear the shaft down. This was common in 2013 and will be returning for the 15's. The cupped washer in 13 did have some merit as it may have added some spring tension to the pulley to take up some slop and extend the time before disaster.

I do have some 12.9 bolts in stock for the Canadian guys for $3 each.

How I fixed mine:
Well I lost a 8.8 bolt in my 2014 and lost a 10.9 bolt in my 2015 and surprisingly survived as we were in the big mountains. Anyway the 14 is pretty tight so I just added a 12.9 hard bolt but for the 15 I had to go all the way. I drilled and tapped the hole for a 12 mm bolt, then I used a 12.9 hard bolt and cut off the head and made it into a stud. I bottomed the stud in the shaft with red Loctite. Now I used Loctite 660 on the splines. The 660 is for worn splines and shafts. It is removed with heat. Next I drilled out the washer to fit the bigger bolt. Finally I used 2 nuts, one to tighten down on the pulley to 45 ft/lb and the second as a locker. This idea was maybe overkill but I can easily check the torque without breaking any thread locker.

I also heard that Polaris went to a bigger bolt for 2016? We will see.

Several rides and it has not budged. Previously I could see the pulley rocking on the shaft even with the bolt at 45 ft/lbs. In addition I used the Loctite 660 on the top pulley as it was rocking on the splines too.

I also ordered the Loctite from Fastenal. http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...Np39f5j93Un0KJxY4Mi92hA&bvm=bv.91071109,d.cGU

Chris



When you inspect your bolt and find it loose, the damage is already done.
 
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Rick!

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You are correct about too much play on the 15's.



All years can be out of spec. but generally the 14"s seem to be the best.



You can use the ARP bolts or order from Fastenal the 12.9 socket head bolts as I did. You will need to buy 25 pc. like I did and sell to your Poo friends.



The stronger bolts may just delay the inevitable though. If the pulley moves at all on the splines you will have failure to either the bolt or the driveshaft and here is why:



The bolt head presses on the pulley (with washer) and in turn the pulley presses on the bearing. This side loading is the only thing that locks the bearing from spinning on the driveshaft. With a loose fitting pulley, every time you go from forward to reverse or even hit the brake, the pulley moves on the splines AND rotates under the bolt head. Now just imagine back and forth all day, every day you ride. The splines wear a bit but think about the interface between the bolt (washer) and the pulley. The underside of the bolt will wear into the washer (or washer into the pulley). Now the pulley and bolt get looser. Now the pulley starts rocking under the bolt head and as the underside of the bolt head does not tighten completely to the shaft, the bolt bends back and forth until it is stressed enough to pop off. This rocking is partially due to the poor design of not having long enough shafts to center float the pulley's. If your bolt simply looses and does not break, the shaft can spin in the bearing and wear the shaft down. This was common in 2013 and will be returning for the 15's. The cupped washer in 13 did have some merit as it may have added some spring tension to the pulley to take up some slop and extend the time before disaster.



I do have some 12.9 bolts in stock for the Canadian guys for $3 each.



How I fixed mine:

Well I lost a 8.8 bolt in my 2014 and lost a 10.9 bolt in my 2015 and surprisingly survived as we were in the big mountains. Anyway the 14 is pretty tight so I just added a 12.9 hard bolt but for the 15 I had to go all the way. I drilled and tapped the hole for a 12 mm bolt, then I used a 12.9 hard bolt and cut off the head and made it into a stud. I bottomed the stud in the shaft with red Loctite. Now I used Loctite 660 on the splines. The 660 is for worn splines and shafts. It is removed with heat. Next I drilled out the washer to fit the bigger bolt. Finally I used 2 nuts, one to tighten down on the pulley to 45 ft/lb and the second as a locker. This idea was maybe overkill but I can easily check the torque without breaking any thread locker.



I also heard that Polaris went to a bigger bolt for 2016? We will see.



Several rides and it has not budged. Previously I could see the pulley rocking on the shaft even with the bolt at 45 ft/lbs. In addition I used the Loctite 660 on the top pulley as it was rocking on the splines too.



I also ordered the Loctite from Fastenal. http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...Np39f5j93Un0KJxY4Mi92hA&bvm=bv.91071109,d.cGU



Chris







When you inspect your bolt and find it loose, the damage is already done.


Ever notice the top bolt is longer? How are the jackshaft bearing issues nowadays? Do longer bolts have more stretch compared to short bolts? Is more bolt stretch better than less stretch?
You're right bolts don't last in bending. Loose bolts endure more bending than tight ones. If you are spending the time to put in larger bolts, you should entertain using a bolt as long as the upper pulley bolt. YMMV.
 

mountainhorse

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Excellent points above... and elaborated by Tethair... and also good point on the stretch.

Preload, stretch, bolt length, torque etc... all are factors in clamping force on the inner race to the shaft.. which also would help to keep the pulley square to the shaft... and help to prevent rocking.

If the bearing shoulder of the drive shaft is square to the length of the shaft... and the bearing inner-race journal registry faces are parallel to each other and square to the outer race... and the inner face and outer face of the pulley at the splines are parallel to each other...and the shaft is just a hair shorter than the overall installed height of the bearing and pulley... then you should be able to pull the assembly together with some good preload and resist rocking as much as possible given the design of the assembly.

Yes... as Rick! is eluding to... the longer bolt will have more elastic stretch (and longer preload extension) than a shorter bolt. Preload is good to keep the pulley snugged up tight to the inner-journal/bearing-shoulder.

Good write-up on stretch.
http://arp-bolts.com/p/technical.php#p7TPMc1_3

Ideally... I'd like to see a good stud fastener and washer, 50mm, w/spacer, for the QuickDrive™... maybe a "kit" from ARP (they are always open to stuff that will sell) ... so that the driveshaft threads do not bear the torsional issues of the bolt being installed and torqued... save that factor for a high end, square ground and hardened nut!!

I am a fan of saving $$... I still feel the ARP bolts are superior to any other out there that is easily available to consumers. You get what you pay for... the ARP's are not much harder than the 10.9-grade fastener (stock bolt)... but the metallurgy and process makes them "tougher"
 
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