Expert/Turbo Heavy Front End Feel

[justinkredible56]

I bought one of the new turbos and it felt way more nose heavy than my 18 with full expert shocks. I swapped the upgraded expert RTS I had, to the turbo to see if it was just aggressive valving in the RTS and found no noticeable improvement in the heavy nose feel.

Talked to a friend that has an expert and he said he’s noticed a lot more heavy front feeling over his 18 so it’s not isolated to the turbo.

On my 18 with expert shocks I was running:
Ski shocks at 1-2
CTS pretty soft and limiter all the way out
RTS right in the middle (12 clicks)
Torsion springs on 5
Sled felt great, loved this setup!

I’ve read a few comments in other threads mentioning this issue, has anyone found a solution or the source of the problem?

I feel like we can rule out shocks since I had all 4 expert shocks on my 18 and didn’t have the issue.

Could it be stiffer torsion springs?
Different suspension mounting?
Is it the adjustable limiter strap?

I’ve been able to somewhat correct/counteract the heavy nose by playing with my shocks, my current config is:
Ski shock preload at 4+
Lots of preload on the CTS
Limiter strap all the way out
RTS at 4 clicks in
Torsion springs on 2-3

This setup helps a lot but it’s still not quite there and running that high of preload on my ski shocks has its own drawbacks.

What have others tried or found?

 

[kcj1317]

I bought one of the new turbos and it felt way more nose heavy than my 18 with full expert shocks. I swapped the upgraded expert RTS I had, to the turbo to see if it was just aggressive valving in the RTS and found no noticeable improvement in the heavy nose feel.

Talked to a friend that has an expert and he said he’s noticed a lot more heavy front feeling over his 18 so it’s not isolated to the turbo.

On my 18 with expert shocks I was running:
Ski shocks at 1-2
CTS pretty soft and limiter all the way out
RTS right in the middle (12 clicks)
Torsion springs on 5
Sled felt great, loved this setup!

I’ve read a few comments in other threads mentioning this issue, has anyone found a solution or the source of the problem?

I feel like we can rule out shocks since I had all 4 expert shocks on my 18 and didn’t have the issue.

Could it be stiffer torsion springs?
Different suspension mounting?
Is it the adjustable limiter strap?

I’ve been able to somewhat correct/counteract the heavy nose by playing with my shocks, my current config is:
Ski shock preload at 4+
Lots of preload on the CTS
Limiter strap all the way out
RTS at 4 clicks in
Torsion springs on 2-3

This setup helps a lot but it’s still not quite there and running that high of preload on my ski shocks has its own drawbacks.

What have others tried or found?

I find my Expert light feeling in the front end. Easier to pop up than my 17, more playful I guess is a way to put it. I did hop on a turbo about a week ago and it felt completely different than my 20. Heavy in the front like your saying Figured it was just the way it was set up but didn't ride it long or really look it over.

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[justinkredible56]

I find my Expert light feeling in the front end. Easier to pop up than my 17, more playful I guess is a way to put it. I did hop on a turbo about a week ago and it felt completely different than my 20. Heavy in the front like your saying Figured it was just the way it was set up but didn't ride it long or really look it over.

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Interesting, maybe I need to take my buddies sled for a rip and compare. Care to share your suspension settings?

 

[kcj1317]

Interesting, maybe I need to take my buddies sled for a rip and compare. Care to share your suspension settings?

Honestly not sure about the front shocks as it felt fine after getting from the dealer. The rear is on 3 and the shock is fairly stiff. I keep my limiter straps long never, tried them short as I'm not a big hill climber. I do know the turbo had its limiter tight. It's outside in the yard, if it was in a garage I'd go look and send you a pic.

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[turboless terry]

I haven't figured out what it is but i don't like it compared to the older ones. It isn't the turbo because the expert felt identical to the turbo. I notice the heavier feel. My wife hates hers compared to the 18. My buddy says samething. Another friend that bought my wife's 17 thought her turbo was really front heavy. I traded her expert for the turbo thinking i would ride it a bunch. I don't want to ride it. Motor is awesome but i would rather ride my underpowered alpha. I am going to take it for a day and play with it or i am getting her something else.

 

[Summit74]

I haven't figured out what it is but i don't like it compared to the older ones. It isn't the turbo because the expert felt identical to the turbo. I notice the heavier feel. My wife hates hers compared to the 18. My buddy says samething. Another friend that bought my wife's 17 thought her turbo was really front heavy. I traded her expert for the turbo thinking i would ride it a bunch. I don't want to ride it. Motor is awesome but i would rather ride my underpowered alpha. I am going to take it for a day and play with it or i am getting her something else.

Got to just be suspension valving and the limiter strap don’t you think? I’m running Fox IQS on my expert and it’s super doesn’t seem nose heavy unless I stiffen up rear torsion springs to 4.

Probably just need to play with it like you said. Maybe ski-doo stiffened up the valving in rear for increased horsepower and wanting to limit transfer, I would assume the torsion springs spec is the same as a normal summit??

 

[Wapow]

My guess would be limiter strap. I read that the adjustable strap on some experts were misassembled at the factory and the "loose" position did not extend the strap correctly. The strap position on the G4 makes a huge difference. Way more than prior Doo models.

 

[turboless terry]

Strap is full long. I don't play with limiter strap. I think it is a gimmick. I want it full length. This one is fixed. The regular expert was messed up. It wouldn't go long. Rear torsion is at 1. I always set my older ones at 5. Some may be front shocks and some may be fts but there is a huge difference in feel from previous ones.

 

[High Voltage]

Alot of people saying the limiter strap was not set up correctly from the factory. But the way I read it, it was.

 

[TheOnlyBFC]

'17 and '18 they had the rear rails tipped up in the back. This helped to make the front end feel lighter since it was like having more rocker. In '19 they went to a straight rail. Probably to try and stop from stock rails bending and to make it feel a little heavier in the nose. Some people want it to feel more like a Poo in the nose and try to bring the nose down like a Poo. So this was kind of what they were trying to achieve in the '19+. This is just what i've heard anyways.

 

[justinkredible56]

'17 and '18 they had the rear rails tipped up in the back. This helped to make the front end feel lighter since it was like having more rocker. In '19 they went to a straight rail. Probably to try and stop from stock rails bending and to make it feel a little heavier in the nose. Some people want it to feel more like a Poo in the nose and try to bring the nose down like a Poo. So this was kind of what they were trying to achieve in the '19+. This is just what i've heard anyways.

Hmm good point, the rails could be the diff I’m feeling.

 

[justinkredible56]

It can’t simply be shocks (outside of torsion springs) as I had the same exact shocks on my 18.

 

[sledhead_24_7]

Shorter handle bar riser on the expert will take away leverage for some people. Just a thought...

But the 17 riser was definitely too tall

 

[turboless terry]

Definitely not it. Turbo bars are also taller.

 

[PaulAnd]

Spindle and ski rubber? No idea?
Expert and turbo do not ride the same..
Expert way stiffer than the turbo,
Tons of bottom end grunt on the expert
2 extra gears on the turbo!
Both give lots of smiles!


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[justinkredible56]

I can try putting the expert take off ski shocks on the front of my turbo, in case they have different valving/spring rates.

I already swapped the CTS and RTS from an expert onto my turbo but figured there was no point in moving the ski shocks over as I assumed they were exactly the same.

And yes, as mentioned the riser on my turbo is the same as my 18 had so I would think we could probably eliminate that.

 

[justinkredible56]

I think I’m going to remove the adjustable limiter strap and try that out. I’m already running the FTS with 3X more preload than I ran on my 18.

I’ll report back what I find.

 

[sledhead_24_7]

Bar position/riser position???


My Expert seems fine, as well as the demo turbo I’ve borrowed from the dealer two different times. But my bar riser is straight inline with the steering post. Too far forward makes the sled handle in lots of bad ways, at least for me.

 

[justinkredible56]

Bar position/riser position???


My Expert seems fine, as well as the demo turbo I’ve borrowed from the dealer two different times. But my bar riser is straight inline with the steering post. Too far forward makes the sled handle in lots of bad ways, at least for me.

Good thought, I run my riser straight inline as well.

 

[WyoRado]

What’s the track length? My 154 doesn’t feel front heavy at all, lots of lift if you want it.