"Contrarian" First Ride Review: 2023 Gen5 Turbo Expert

[christopher]

Yup, there just has to be one in every group I suppose.
Today its my turn.

Context..

I am 60yrs old and was a HARD CORE Yamaha rider from 2008 till 2016 when Ski-Doo released the new Gen4 sleds.
Nytros, Phazers, Turbo Nytros, Supercharged Nytros, Turbo Viper ect..

I actively participate in Trail Riding, Mountain Riding, Meadow Riding, and regularly ride with people of all different skills levels including "Never-Evers".

Since last year I have been riding a 22 Turbo Expert, and absolutely LOVING IT. Best Damn sled I have ever owned!

=====

Today I was finally able to take out my new 2023 Turbo Expert for its first ride, and what an awakening it was.
Last year I remember riding one of the new Turbo Poos and really NOT liking it at all, but not spending much time trying to figure out WHY I didn't like it, just did not care for it's handing in particular.

Today, within minutes of riding the new Turbo Expert, I felt like I was back on one of my Nytros and remembering just how much I fell in LOVE with the new Gen4 T-Motion sleds back in the fall of 2016 when I bought 3 of them. The Gen5 Turbo Expert is an AMAZING SLED. When it comes to SIDE HILLING it DESTROYS the 22. Having removed the T-Motion renders the sled far more Precise, Deliberate and Intentional in its pure mountain prowess. I could hold a sidehill line far better than on my 22 w/T-Motion, and its no wonder to me at all why so many people rave about this sled.

But.
Because I spend a good deal of my riding time on the trail and in the meadows, the lack of T-Motion translated to a direct increase in the physicality of the ride. I remember all too well coming in off my Nytro after a 6hr ride being just TIRED. While the sled in all its iterations was very capable, I paid a price for riding it in increased muscle fatigue, mostly from its weight, but today I was reminded that it also came from the standard suspension.

While T-Motion gets a deservedly bad rep from the purely dedicated mountain crowd, I absolutely prefer it for general all around riding over the Non-Flex edge track and Non-Flexing suspension. The deeper and fresher the powder, the better the 23 Turbo Expert performed! The shallower and older the snow, the better the 22 Turbo Expert performed.


While I fully expect these comments to be "poorly" received here on SnoWest, I think its fair to say this sled is not for Everyone. If you are spending a good deal of your time sidehilling, its ABSOLUTELY the sled for you. If you are in your 20s/30s and don't mind the extra effort it requires, then its the performance beast you have been looking for. But if you are a fan of Ski-Doo's T-Motion, with its drawback and advantages, the 2023 Turbo Expert will likely not be your cup of tea.


As for me.
I will be SnowChecking 2 or 3 new 2024 Summit X Turbos this spring.
Will sell off both my 2022 and my 2023

Now.
Tell feel free to TELL MY WHY I AM WRONG..

 

[caper11]

You are not. Having a locked out tmotion in my previous G4 sled, there were pros and cons to this and you just hit them, with your G5 experience.
I feel that the 34” front end May possibly not be enough to compensate for the expert rear suspension. Maybe a sway bar disconnect is another option to explore? I did have one from a older sled that I put on my G5 expert.

 

[Solarguy]

Yup, there just has to be one in every group I suppose.
Today its my turn.

Context..

I am 60yrs old and was a HARD CORE Yamaha rider from 2008 till 2016 when Ski-Doo released the new Gen4 sleds.
Nytros, Phazers, Turbo Nytros, Supercharged Nytros, Turbo Viper ect..

I actively participate in Trail Riding, Mountain Riding, Meadow Riding, and regularly ride with people of all different skills levels including "Never-Evers".

Since last year I have been riding a 22 Turbo Expert, and absolutely LOVING IT. Best Damn sled I have ever owned!

=====

Today I was finally able to take out my new 2023 Turbo Expert for its first ride, and what an awakening it was.
Last year I remember riding one of the new Turbo Poos and really NOT liking it at all, but not spending much time trying to figure out WHY I didn't like it, just did not care for it's handing in particular.

Today, within minutes of riding the new Turbo Expert, I felt like I was back on one of my Nytros and remembering just how much I fell in LOVE with the new Gen4 T-Motion sleds back in the fall of 2016 when I bought 3 of them. The Gen5 Turbo Expert is an AMAZING SLED. When it comes to SIDE HILLING it DESTROYS the 22. Having removed the T-Motion renders the sled far more Precise, Deliberate and Intentional in its pure mountain prowess. I could hold a sidehill line far better than on my 22 w/T-Motion, and its no wonder to me at all why so many people rave about this sled.

But.
Because I spend a good deal of my riding time on the trail and in the meadows, the lack of T-Motion translated to a direct increase in the physicality of the ride. I remember all too well coming in off my Nytro after a 6hr ride being just TIRED. While the sled in all its iterations was very capable, I paid a price for riding it in increased muscle fatigue, mostly from its weight, but today I was reminded that it also came from the standard suspension.

While T-Motion gets a deservedly bad rep from the purely dedicated mountain crowd, I absolutely prefer it for general all around riding over the Non-Flex edge track and Non-Flexing suspension. The deeper and fresher the powder, the better the 23 Turbo Expert performed! The shallower and older the snow, the better the 22 Turbo Expert performed.


While I fully expect these comments to be "poorly" received here on SnoWest, I think its fair to say this sled is not for Everyone. If you are spending a good deal of your time sidehilling, its ABSOLUTELY the sled for you. If you are in your 20s/30s and don't mind the extra effort it requires, then its the performance beast you have been looking for. But if you are a fan of Ski-Doo's T-Motion, with its drawback and advantages, the 2023 Turbo Expert will likely not be your cup of tea.


As for me.
I will be SnowChecking 2 or 3 new 2024 Summit X Turbos this spring.
Will sell off both my 2022 and my 2023

Now.
Tell feel free to TELL MY WHY I AM WRONG..

Good review Christopher, sometimes it is difficult to be completely honest about our rides.
My experience with turbo sleds (2012 -14 Turbo Pro) was a learning experience. While the fun factor was awesome, I was never able to ride as well on a boosted sled in steep, tight technical terrain. Also I did more damage to my sleds in those years hitting **** getting out of control in steep trees/tight terrain due to turbo lag and then spool up.
I will say riding a gen 4 Turbo was a pleasure with the least turbo lag I’ve ever experienced. The Poo factory boost still has noticeable lag which causes this old man to struggle with the same precision and control I have attained on a na sled. IMO, what’s best for me and terrain I enjoy, a NA Poo is what works for me. Looking forward to the 9R when it arrives?

 

[live2beel]

Why not just throw a T-motion X arm in it for under $200. The flex edge track can't be to different than the non flex since they ran the paddles to the edge. Save you a pile of cash on the loss you will take.

 

[revrider07]

So how does t motion help on the trail? I personally on the trail felt t motion felt sluggish and squishy. Did you move the limiter strap at all? Have you ever had your shocks valved for your weight ? The suspension makes a big difference imo

 

[Norona]

Yup, there just has to be one in every group I suppose.
Today its my turn.

Context..

I am 60yrs old and was a HARD CORE Yamaha rider from 2008 till 2016 when Ski-Doo released the new Gen4 sleds.
Nytros, Phazers, Turbo Nytros, Supercharged Nytros, Turbo Viper ect..

I actively participate in Trail Riding, Mountain Riding, Meadow Riding, and regularly ride with people of all different skills levels including "Never-Evers".

Since last year I have been riding a 22 Turbo Expert, and absolutely LOVING IT. Best Damn sled I have ever owned!

=====

Today I was finally able to take out my new 2023 Turbo Expert for its first ride, and what an awakening it was.
Last year I remember riding one of the new Turbo Poos and really NOT liking it at all, but not spending much time trying to figure out WHY I didn't like it, just did not care for it's handing in particular.

Today, within minutes of riding the new Turbo Expert, I felt like I was back on one of my Nytros and remembering just how much I fell in LOVE with the new Gen4 T-Motion sleds back in the fall of 2016 when I bought 3 of them. The Gen5 Turbo Expert is an AMAZING SLED. When it comes to SIDE HILLING it DESTROYS the 22. Having removed the T-Motion renders the sled far more Precise, Deliberate and Intentional in its pure mountain prowess. I could hold a sidehill line far better than on my 22 w/T-Motion, and its no wonder to me at all why so many people rave about this sled.

But.
Because I spend a good deal of my riding time on the trail and in the meadows, the lack of T-Motion translated to a direct increase in the physicality of the ride. I remember all too well coming in off my Nytro after a 6hr ride being just TIRED. While the sled in all its iterations was very capable, I paid a price for riding it in increased muscle fatigue, mostly from its weight, but today I was reminded that it also came from the standard suspension.

While T-Motion gets a deservedly bad rep from the purely dedicated mountain crowd, I absolutely prefer it for general all around riding over the Non-Flex edge track and Non-Flexing suspension. The deeper and fresher the powder, the better the 23 Turbo Expert performed! The shallower and older the snow, the better the 22 Turbo Expert performed.


While I fully expect these comments to be "poorly" received here on SnoWest, I think its fair to say this sled is not for Everyone. If you are spending a good deal of your time sidehilling, its ABSOLUTELY the sled for you. If you are in your 20s/30s and don't mind the extra effort it requires, then its the performance beast you have been looking for. But if you are a fan of Ski-Doo's T-Motion, with its drawback and advantages, the 2023 Turbo Expert will likely not be your cup of tea.


As for me.
I will be SnowChecking 2 or 3 new 2024 Summit X Turbos this spring.
Will sell off both my 2022 and my 2023

Now.
Tell feel free to TELL MY WHY I AM WRONG..

Two things to add, the t-motion x rear arm, and the d3 ski, it will change that sled, this is from carl kuster, he said when I asked him he side hilled the sleds with t-motion x, t-motion xt(rigid), with the flex track without it in every combination, despite what guys think, he said it is splitting hairs, t-motion x has become the one thing guy focus on, when my self and bunch of guys rode the sleds there is not one place the freeride or summit x could not go where the expert went, and because guys use the saying, well if your not good enough you won't know. Well Jason Ribi 10,000km a year, Denis Paton, 10,000km per year, guides at carls, carl him self, rob alford, tony jenkins, jay mentaberry all ride t-motion X maybe the problem is not the the sled, after all the best asset a very good sledder has is their ability to overcome , but yet many say they are hindered by it, Yes the expert is awesome , but all of the above guys also have a t-motion x sled as well as the t-motion xt in the expert, it was one of the things I asked all of them and it is easy to say they are both good when we have one of each but most guys buy one sled and it is why I put my 2 cents in when I rode them. There is no wrong or right. one sled is not better than the other, just two different directions, choose and ride.

The other thing you might be more tired is that the suspension on the expert is 20 plus percent stiffer, if you back the center shock to the softest position on the expert it is the same as the x, so with the skis, t-moton x arm and suspension softness you might feel different. My buddy Theo did the t-motion x arm right from the get go after riding the sleds last year and he says its a huge difference, he is going to try the skis to. Glad you had a fun day out as that is what its all about. One last thing, remember when your out riding with your group it is not who feels the best at 10 am on the first day but who is shredding best 4 days in!!! cheers dave

 

[turboless terry]

You are depressing me equating it to a nytro. The nytro was a crappy chassis with a lot of power if turboed. Excessive lag and fat body and boards made it aweful for technical riding. That is before i throw in weight.
You just listed the reasons why I don't like a 16 wide track. They may have more traction but look what you are giving up. If you have t motion and flex edge then you are giving up precision. That is why i ordered a lynx. I actually thought the 34 inch front end would compensate but apparently not quite. 34 inch front end on matryx is stupid easy.
Christopher, guessing you rode a pro boost instead of kaos boost. They feel really heavy or, i guess, like a boat anchor. The doo motor is smoother feeling. I am one that didn't like the doo turbo. They feel heavy to me. Last one i rode was a 21 and have not rode 34 inch front end. Does your 22 have 34 front end? Seems like they had that plus t motion and flex edge.

 

[christopher]

You are not. Having a locked out tmotion in my previous G4 sled, there were pros and cons to this and you just hit them, with your G5 experience.
I feel that the 34” front end May possibly not be enough to compensate for the expert rear suspension. Maybe a sway bar disconnect is another option to explore? I did have one from a older sled that I put on my G5 expert.

You raise a REALLY INTERESTING thought.
I know quite a few people who installed a T-Motion LOCKOUT.
I would LOVE to try just the opposite.
A T-Motion Activator.

Being able to turn the T-Motion On or OFF as needed would be FANTASTIC.

I had never ridden one of the Doos with the T-Motion Locked out previously...

 

[christopher]

Good review Christopher, sometimes it is difficult to be completely honest about our rides.
My experience with turbo sleds (2012 -14 Turbo Pro) was a learning experience. While the fun factor was awesome, I was never able to ride as well on a boosted sled in steep, tight technical terrain. Also I did more damage to my sleds in those years hitting **** getting out of control in steep trees/tight terrain due to turbo lag and then spool up.
I will say riding a gen 4 Turbo was a pleasure with the least turbo lag I’ve ever experienced. The Poo factory boost still has noticeable lag which causes this old man to struggle with the same precision and control I have attained on a na sled. IMO, what’s best for me and terrain I enjoy, a NA Poo is what works for me. Looking forward to the 9R when it arrives?

Having had SEVERAL boosted sleds.. Low boost turbo, Supercharged and a Insane High Boost turbo, I absolutely think that the Turbo Expert is the BEST DIALED IN BOOSTED SLED I have ever ridden, BAR NONE.

Doo positively NAILED the engine!

 

[christopher]

Why not just throw a T-motion X arm in it for under $200. The flex edge track can't be to different than the non flex since they ran the paddles to the edge. Save you a pile of cash on the loss you will take.

Can it be RETROFITTED????

 

[christopher]

So how does t motion help on the trail? I personally on the trail felt t motion felt sluggish and squishy. Did you move the limiter strap at all? Have you ever had your shocks valved for your weight ? The suspension makes a big difference imo

I did play in both positions on the limited.
Tight and Loose.
For "ME" I really felt the difference in turn initiation.
The T-Motion sled was very easy and willing to initiate the body rotation to the Left or Right with minimal physical input.
The 23 Expert required me to be more "Deliberate" and work the sled to make it do what I wanted.

As I mentioned though, this was HIGHLY DEPENDANT on the snow.
The worse the snow was, the more pronounced my bodily input had to be to get the sled to do what I wanted.
The deeper and softer the snow, the less input that was required.

But in the general, I found the T-Motion to simply be "easier" to initiate, and unless I am wrong, that was very much the initial design intent.

 

[christopher]

Two things to add, the t-motion x rear arm, and the d3 ski, it will change that sled, this is from carl kuster, he said when I asked him he side hilled the sleds with t-motion x, t-motion xt(rigid), with the flex track without it in every combination, despite what guys think, he said it is splitting hairs, t-motion x has become the one thing guy focus on, when my self and bunch of guys rode the sleds there is not one place the freeride or summit x could not go where the expert went, and because guys use the saying, well if your not good enough you won't know. Well Jason Ribi 10,000km a year, Denis Paton, 10,000km per year, guides at carls, carl him self, rob alford, tony jenkins, jay mentaberry all ride t-motion X maybe the problem is not the the sled, after all the best asset a very good sledder has is their ability to overcome , but yet many say they are hindered by it, Yes the expert is awesome , but all of the above guys also have a t-motion x sled as well as the t-motion xt in the expert, it was one of the things I asked all of them and it is easy to say they are both good when we have one of each but most guys buy one sled and it is why I put my 2 cents in when I rode them. There is no wrong or right. one sled is not better than the other, just two different directions, choose and ride.

BOY DO I AGREE WITH THAT.
Not Better, Not Worse, just DIFFERENT.

I also agree that the two sleds could EASILY RIDE SIDE BY SIDE anywhere TOGETHER.
There is NO DOUBT IN MY MIND.

The other thing you might be more tired is that the suspension on the expert is 20 plus percent stiffer, if you back the center shock to the softest position on the expert it is the same as the x, so with the skis, t-moton x arm and suspension softness you might feel different. My buddy Theo did the t-motion x arm right from the get go after riding the sleds last year and he says its a huge difference, he is going to try the skis to. Glad you had a fun day out as that is what its all about. One last thing, remember when your out riding with your group it is not who feels the best at 10 am on the first day but who is shredding best 4 days in!!! cheers dave

That is a super good point Dave.
More than willing to go down to the sled and make some adjustments and go ride her again!!

As for the last comment, again, I TOTALLY AGREE.
I used to be HIGHLY FATIGUED at the end of every ride on my Nytro.
Then I switched over to the Doos, and Snowmobiling became FAR FAR MORE FUN for me as at the end of the day I wasn't TRASHED ANY MORE!

 

[christopher]

You are depressing me equating it to a nytro. The nytro was a crappy chassis with a lot of power if turboed. Excessive lag and fat body and boards made it aweful for technical riding. That is before i throw in weight.

Weight wise, there is NO Comparison.
My Nytro was a good +150lbs heavier.
But my gut feeling after riding the 23 Expert was to remember my last ride on the Nytro.
Just that sense of having to WORK to get her to do what I wanted.
As I chased my son around on my 22 Expert I felt I was working MUCH harder maneuvering the sled through the trees today than he was.

You just listed the reasons why I don't like a 16 wide track. They may have more traction but look what you are giving up. If you have t motion and flex edge then you are giving up precision. That is why i ordered a lynx. I actually thought the 34 inch front end would compensate but apparently not quite. 34 inch front end on matryx is stupid easy.

100% Agree
There is no doubt but that the 23 Expert is MORE PRECISE in its ability to position the sled.
Its Side Hilling ability to HOLD A STRAIGHT LINE was clearly superior to the T-Motion 22 Expert!
I saw that the very first time I leaned her over and rode a slope.
I should also not, my 23 was set at the middle width, did not take the time yet to set the stance to NARROW.

Christopher, guessing you rode a pro boost instead of kaos boost. They feel really heavy or, i guess, like a boat anchor. The doo motor is smoother feeling. I am one that didn't like the doo turbo. They feel heavy to me. Last one i rode was a 21 and have not rode 34 inch front end. Does your 22 have 34 front end? Seems like they had that plus t motion and flex edge.

Yes

 

[christopher]

I should also mention.

I FREAKING LOVE THAT LARGE SCREEN!!!

 

[HCRRider]

Love hearing the ride reports on the new models. I think its awesome that one guy jumps on a sled and its the next best thing and the next guy gets on it and says eeehhhh, its ok and the next guy says the thing sucks. Its all what we like and what fits us.. Just makes it tough to dump $25k on a sled nowadays not knowing. We all do it.

Im sure its just a learning curve Christopher and just not used to it. You will be ripping that thing before you know it. All the videos on line it sure does look better than previous model sleds. One thing about BRP, they are constantly trying to better their product. I will give them that.

 

[firstkitty]

Few things I noticed about my g5 expert is it just didn’t ride like my 21 expert did .
The front shocks on the 23 I believe are softer sprung and valve different, I swapped out the front a arms to the 36” and put pro 40s up front and in now is a lot like my 21 for predictability. The DS4 skis are not for me either.
If I were to do this over I would buy a summit sp and dial it in with good shocks from Enzo and add the few other little things the expert has I like .
I do feel the 21 was more dialed in from the factory than this 23 but with some time I’ll get it to where it needs to be .
Also I need it to do 2 things good ride in the mountains and here in Saskatchewan at 2000 feet cross country riding so more of a struggle to do both decent without major changes
Also someone asked about a rear arm that can go from t motion to lock out . I know raptor ace kit had a rear arm on there kit you could have t mo or lock out .

 

[Top]

Funny how we all have opinions because mine is the opposite. I'm a bigger guy (260 lbs and 6'1") that is middle aged. I came off a 2020 Expert (great machine) but over rode it. I always thought it was the T-motion. I would be climbing a hill and be all over the place because the sled would switch direction on me following the terrain. More than likely it was just me. I felt like I was always correcting what the sled was trying to do. Don't get me wrong, I loved the sled and it was a blast to ride. I've only been out once on me 23' Expert and I must say, it fits me like a glove! It doesn't follow the terrain and go all over the place, it does what I want it to do. This is my opinion but I'm not in the "weeds" like a lot of you. I just want to have fun and don't need to be the big dog.

 

[Norona]

Can it be RETROFITTED????

Yes fits right in, lots of guys adding t-motion x to it and lots of guy adding the t-motion xt into a freeride or summit x

 

[Norona]

Love hearing the ride reports on the new models. I think its awesome that one guy jumps on a sled and its the next best thing and the next guy gets on it and says eeehhhh, its ok and the next guy says the thing sucks. Its all what we like and what fits us.. Just makes it tough to dump $25k on a sled nowadays not knowing. We all do it.

Im sure its just a learning curve Christopher and just not used to it. You will be ripping that thing before you know it. All the videos on line it sure does look better than previous model sleds. One thing about BRP, they are constantly trying to better their product. I will give them that.

One thing to remember in all of this is like I said last season many will not notice that IT IS harder to pull over and the steering is slacker so it is also harder to steer, but because everyone has just started at the beggining of the season we are all weaker than we will be at the middle or end of the season, so anyone will just get use to what they are riding and their body and strength will adapt and they wont notice it. Also the snow is soft which you wont notice the rear end movement of 2 degrees, Locked out the sled will perform better on a tracked out rutted hard pack conditions. But if you notice what everyone is raving about is the true 180 HP which is even better than what the prototypes felt like, guys say they love the t-motion xt but guarentee they would not notice if it was the t-motion x in it. One example of this is at carls we put in a nextec carbon skid, funny as this is what Chris B uses on his polaris and he calls the t-motion an wonky rear end, well if you have a t-motion skid off the ground and the nextec, guess which one flexes more, carbon can't be super stiff otherwise it will break.

 

[Norona]

Funny how we all have opinions because mine is the opposite. I'm a bigger guy (260 lbs and 6'1") that is middle aged. I came off a 2020 Expert (great machine) but over rode it. I always thought it was the T-motion. I would be climbing a hill and be all over the place because the sled would switch direction on me following the terrain. More than likely it was just me. I felt like I was always correcting what the sled was trying to do. Don't get me wrong, I loved the sled and it was a blast to ride. I've only been out once on me 23' Expert and I must say, it fits me like a glove! It doesn't follow the terrain and go all over the place, it does what I want it to do. This is my opinion but I'm not in the "weeds" like a lot of you. I just want to have fun and don't need to be the big dog.

You are totally right, 260! I am 145 and you could chuck me across the room, sleds use to be easy for you to throw around and hard for me, now they are easy for me and the hard part for you is they have become so easy that moving your big toe makes it go left or right so you have to put so little imput into the sled which is much harder for a bigger person. In this case for sure the xt tmotion skid will be better! Both sleds rip but again it is matching sled to rider, which it sounds like you have done which is awesome, have a wicked winter!!