Anybody else heard about a recall on 08 D8's

[Ron]

All 2009's come with two fuel maps-one no Ethanol the other using Ethanol. The sleds come with the jumper wire unplugged (Ethanol fuel) because many stations have changed over to Eth.
Last I heard the 08's don't have 2 maps so plugging the jumper wires won't do anything. Maybe when they get the new fuel map the jumper will work. I doubt that any dealer "knows" that the 09 map will still have a bog. First that will depend on altitude and other conditions....there was no bog at 5-8000 on our sleds. The 09 proto had a leaner map than the 08's and was 2 sleds faster...that's all we gained with the SLP pipe. Yet according to the internet the 09 map will cost performance. A little conjecture seems healthy but btching about a problem that probably doesn't exist seems a waste of time & energy.

 

[Flange509]

Dont know of any D8 with any piston problems, mines been very good.Did have the reflash done from late March, 3/24/08 they called it, performance was much better and just felt more crisp. I never had a bog in mine but did feel it had a little more in it and this reflash proved it. Mine only has the SLP can and I ride above 8k normally.

 

[AKCoop]

First,

The sleds run great at Altitude, yet at lower elevations the bog hits.

The problem with the 08 ECUs are that they don't like multiple reflashes on them. I guess they spent the extra time and money on the 09 ECU, with dual maps. Didn't they do this '01? (I had one) Additionally, some of the test sleds that were affected by the reflash during testing had SLP singles on them. Consequently, those are the machines that blew up on the testers. So back to the drawing board; and oh by the way, polaris recommended when they replaced the motors on these sleds to only run the stock pipe until they get this figured out.

Deepdiver, thanks for the reply. However if you count in the hourly rate and supplied parts for the rebuilds, will the corporate office save money? Likely not if the work is not completed correctly. How can corporate management guarantee a motor they did not build? Ask yamaha what they do if a power plant fails. The entire unit gets swapped. Why? They want to certify the work to be completed.

Imagine a motor the small end bearings are installed incorrectly, or the head bolts are not torqued correctly. Many people can slap a motor back together, how many correctly build them to specs. or better. Hell, even the factory doesn't get it right sometimes.

Polaris, save your time and energy for multiple repairs, unsatisfied customers and possible lemon law ramifications (in states that apply) and just swap out the power packages for the machines. This way the manufacture can stand by its product with confidence, and save $$$ in the long run.

Do you know how much in shipping polaris will pay to ship new units when they ship new sleds out to those dealers? Pennies on the dollar. I'm starting to get the feeling that polaris doesn't really care about their customers after the purchase.

Polaris, PLEASE don't screw with KTM. Just collect royalties off the company and leave the management alone! I love my bike.

 

[thefullmonte]

All 2009's come with two fuel maps-one no Ethanol the other using Ethanol. The sleds come with the jumper wire unplugged (Ethanol fuel) because many stations have changed over to Eth.
Last I heard the 08's don't have 2 maps so plugging the jumper wires won't do anything. Maybe when they get the new fuel map the jumper will work. I doubt that any dealer "knows" that the 09 map will still have a bog. First that will depend on altitude and other conditions....there was no bog at 5-8000 on our sleds. The 09 proto had a leaner map than the 08's and was 2 sleds faster...that's all we gained with the SLP pipe. Yet according to the internet the 09 map will cost performance. A little conjecture seems healthy but btching about a problem that probably doesn't exist seems a waste of time & energy.

The 09 map does sound like the ticket. Check out the link on my last post. It is the thread over on HCS. Thats where I originally found out about the wires. The guys that tried it on the 08's said it really leans them out if you connect the wires. I'm guessing it's not right though. Polaris sounds like you really need to reflash to get the fuel injection right. I'm not sure if the problem exists or not. (the fuel related) It does seem like a concern to some though. I just want polaris to be more forthcoming with information. That way the dealers would have the tools and info to better help the customer. And we wouldn't sit here on the forums debating and loosing sleep over what might be nothing more than rumors.

Sledcaddy,
I don't know why some of the sleds are using alot of fuel and others don't. Just like some had hesitation and a bog and some didn't. I was comparing my 08 to my 03. I am using at least 4 more gal of fuel and getting aroung 30miles less. I quit carrying extra fuel on my 03 since I could go around 120 miles. At 90 miles I've already used both spare cans and am desperately looking to fill up or limp back to the truck. In my mind anyway, thats "excessive fuel consumption". As you pointed out, why would there be such a varience in mpg. Yes the new dragons have a stronger motor. On the Other side of the coin, my 03 was pretty modded. It was probably fairly close in hp.

 

[Ron]

Sledcaddy,
I don't know why some of the sleds are using alot of fuel and others don't. Just like some had hesitation and a bog and some didn't. I was comparing my 08 to my 03. I am using at least 4 more gal of fuel and getting aroung 30miles less. I quit carrying extra fuel on my 03 since I could go around 120 miles.

Just another thought on fuel consumption & altitude versus the older 8's. I ran the Holtzman ATACC on an 03 & 05 Edge 8 with very good results. Used less fuel than my wifes 7. But... we ran a weaker spring (Bl/Red) in the driven clutch so sleds were "loafing" more on any trail miles. With the Bl/Purple R's are higher during the part of your ride that you aren't pushing the sled. On a carbed sled lower R's resulted in lower fuel consumption (oversimpification) but what happens on the CFI sleds? This is where the fuel mapping, clutching & fuel quality also come in to play. There are now more sensors that can provide more accurate fuel metering but they can also work against you.
I don't know what happens in any given situation but can make an educated guess on some. If the sled detects detonation from lower quality fuel then likely the sled will retard the timing &/or add fuel. If your clutching is off because you lost or gained power changing altitude-then it's likely economy will suffer.The TPS & RPM's are a key part of the fuel map-if the TPS is out of adjustment or if you have clutching that isn't dialed then the realtionship of TPS to R's may get you to a rich fuel map. If in doubt the system will likely retard timing or increase fuel.
There is no question that a fuel map is complicated & will improve over time. Dealer setup including proper adjustment of the throttle is now an important factor. Running "dialed" clutching is also a factor more so than on carbed sleds. So if your riding includes big swings in altitude be prepared for performance issues or you may need to change weights. We all have a learning curve including Polaris.

 

[thefullmonte]

Thanks Ron, you always give good insight into this stuff. Definitally things at least I didn't think of right away.
I went to the local dealer who didn't even know there was a pink wire or dual maps on the 09's. He was completely unhelpful or willing to help. Which is why I tend to do my own wrenching and buy from a dealer 600 miles away. I was pointed to the customer service line once again. And got to speak with Kathy who deserves a raise. She was unable to talk with a tech rep, but is having one get in contact with the dealer and advise him on the course of action as to:
A) reflash existing ecu
B) plug in existing wires ( I forgot about the resistor mentioned on HCS forum)
C) get an 09 ecu with dual maps already installed.
She did everything perfectly. Although, she couldn't answer the question herself, she got the ball rolling in a direction to getting my/our questions answered.

 

[deepdiver]

First,


Deepdiver, thanks for the reply. However if you count in the hourly rate and supplied parts for the rebuilds, will the corporate office save money? Likely not if the work is not completed correctly. How can corporate management guarantee a motor they did not build? Ask yamaha what they do if a power plant fails. The entire unit gets swapped. Why? They want to certify the work to be completed.

Imagine a motor the small end bearings are installed incorrectly, or the head bolts are not torqued correctly. Many people can slap a motor back together, how many correctly build them to specs. or better. Hell, even the factory doesn't get it right sometimes.

Polaris, save your time and energy for multiple repairs, unsatisfied customers and possible lemon law ramifications (in states that apply) and just swap out the power packages for the machines. This way the manufacture can stand by its product with confidence, and save $$$ in the long run.

Do you know how much in shipping polaris will pay to ship new units when they ship new sleds out to those dealers? Pennies on the dollar. I'm starting to get the feeling that polaris doesn't really care about their customers after the purchase.

QUOTE]
good point I must say, However if a "certified" Polaris trained mech. at the local dealer can not change out a piston and head and cylinders and then torque to spec we are in trouble anyway. Its just "nuts and bolts" not a difficult task and surly not rocket science. Granted, Polaris needs to write the instructions correctly. Not sure about Yamaha today, but back in 99 I had a Roadstar and had the motor blow two times for different serious reasons..Never was it sent to Yamaha, in fact Yamaha didnt even want to respond or believe that it was an inherant problem. If you want you can go to Delphi Forums and go to the Roadstar site and look in the archives on 1999 issues or post away and you will find many others that went thru he__ll and back with Yamaha. What they would do is keep your parts and sometimes Yamaha would ask the dealer to send them back for investigation on what caused their failures but not always.

 

[piper]

the 09 800 come whit new pistons and head, its a head whit a bit lesser comp..

the 08 700 and 800 has an International program in scandinavia, that have a non etanol and etanol program..
was a new program only scandinavia got last winter.

the 2 rings piston have the ring longer down on the pistons and have a bigger distance between rings..

and also should the pistons be stronger.

 

[thefullmonte]

Thanks Piper.
That's more info than I was able to get out of a service manager and a Polaris tech rep all day.

 

[gerrman]

Deja Vu

Motor/Piston recall on 08 D8`s??? I should be so lucky??? Had a MAJOR piston,ring,cylinder meltdown at 610 miles. After getting it repaired, I was only able to get about 125 miles on the fix. At this point, three years of warranty may mean at least one motor per season, then trade it in!?!! What is the problem with these motors? Rushed into production with not enough testing (need for an 800 motor) or is it time for more house cleaning of Polaris` Mountain Division engineers.

 

[towngrunt]

Heard from very good source all D-8 owners will be getting letter middle of Oct. on recall. Polaris set aside approx. 3.2 million dollars for recall. I had rpm issues with my 8 and was told less than 3 percent had problem but would have remedy for problem.

 

[timemiller]

hcs

The 09 map does sound like the ticket. Check out the link on my last post. It is the thread over on HCS. Thats where I originally found out about the wires. The guys that tried it on the 08's said it really leans them out if you connect the wires. I'm guessing it's not right though. Polaris sounds like you really need to reflash to get the fuel injection right. I'm not sure if the problem exists or not. (the fuel related) It does seem like a concern to some though. I just want polaris to be more forthcoming with information. That way the dealers would have the tools and info to better help the customer. And we wouldn't sit here on the forums debating and loosing sleep over what might be nothing more than rumors.

Sledcaddy,
I don't know why some of the sleds are using alot of fuel and others don't. Just like some had hesitation and a bog and some didn't. I was comparing my 08 to my 03. I am using at least 4 more gal of fuel and getting aroung 30miles less. I quit carrying extra fuel on my 03 since I could go around 120 miles. At 90 miles I've already used both spare cans and am desperately looking to fill up or limp back to the truck. In my mind anyway, thats "excessive fuel consumption". As you pointed out, why would there be such a varience in mpg. Yes the new dragons have a stronger motor. On the Other side of the coin, my 03 was pretty modded. It was probably fairly close in hp.

mont i hate to sound stupid but what is the hcs forum, and im also intrested in this wire that leans them out???

 

[gerrman]

Heard from very good source all D-8 owners will be getting letter middle of Oct. on recall. Polaris set aside approx. 3.2 million dollars for recall. I had rpm issues with my 8 and was told less than 3 percent had problem but would have remedy for problem.

Let me do the math. Limited build of say 2000 d8`s and there are six in my area. All six have had problems. Now 3 percent of 2000 is 60. Therefore we have 10 percent of the problem D8`s in one area? I believe the number is a lot more the 3 percent. Like last years delivery date, I will not be holding my breath for any letter from Polaris in Oct.. Maybe in Jan/09 after the 09 sleds have had time to experience similar problems as the 08`s.

 

[towngrunt]

Im not holding my breath either but feel fairly confident that they will make good. Think they realize they had better make good or will lose more faithful. Am waiting for my 09 D8 and will keep 08 D8 for wife.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

well guys..for what it is worth..my dealer and I talked about both the reflash and the piston/head today..the diff between the 08 and the 09 is ..the ecu programming, the head, and the pistons,, as of right now polaris is undecided as to what it is going to do..but I have checked lots of part #'s myself and the ecu is the same, engine parts other then the head and pistons all show same...I already told my dealer one way or another I want an 09 ecu program..if needed I will buy both the head and pistons myself..my sled as well as 2 others I ride with have had zero problems other then a burble at lower elevations(under 4000 ft.) now it was worse before I put the slp single on it...but never made the sled unridable..as for why some are pig rich? I honestly dont know..why a few burnt pistons? I dont know but sounds like these sleds might - might have leaned up...I honestly think that if everyone politely voices their concerns to both their dealer and polaris industries...POLITELY, we will get solid results from polaris....

 

[thefullmonte]

Again, I really appreciate the leg work from some of you. AKSNOWRIDER, that is very usefull to know the ecu's are the same. I was thinking they were a completely new part.
timemiller, HCS is Hard Core Sledder forum. There are some really knowledgable people over there. Alot of good tech info, but more flat land oriented. If that link doesn't work, the info is in the Polaris>rmk/switchback forum.
I hope they do announce something. I'm not looking for any kind of warranty to be honest. I just want my sled to run the best it can. I don't know why Polaris makes this sort of thing so difficult. If all I need to do is reflash to the 09 to make me like my sled better and run around shouting how great it is, why not make it easier for the consumer and dealer to make this happen?
Anyone know anything about the digital wrench site. http://www.polaris.diagsys.com/index.php
I think this is where you can download new updates etc??????
AKSNOWRIDER, Ron and some others I'm sure. I hope you appreciate how good you have it. You live close to reputable dealers who are always willing to help and discuss issues. Look up parts and get answers to questions. Trust me, it's not like that everywhere.
Keep up the good work guys.

 

[Flange509]

The digital wreench site is what the dealer uses to download any new files to update a machine, Polaris uses it for all their machines that use a programmable ecu. I dont think you can buy the software and do it at home but I could be wrong.
Using a harness that powers the ecu when hooked up it asks for the vin number and checks some history file for that machine I think then it deletes the old data file in the ecu then reloads the new one to a eeprom in the ecu.
The digital wrench site shows the latest update for the D8 as 3/24/08, this is the the one I have loaded in mine but I dont know if it has the dual maps in it, the site gives very little info on the updates

 

[AKCoop]

Deep diver:

Sorry to hear about your problems with you bike. Their Star program must have different management than their power department, or your dealer was being cheap. I've personally seen two powerplants completely changed on
RX1s and the same with an early 02 R1. Oil starvation was the culprit on the sleds, and loss of compression on 2 cylinders on the R1. My guess is the dealer ate some of the cost, maybe installation, but the motors were crated and send off to yamaha.

My guess to this whole issue is polaris is waiting for their legal department to release what is acceptable to replace and the method to which it is to be done. Any replacement of any part is in fact admitting that the product was of an inferior quality to begin with. This more than likely has to have some impact on the time it takes to release the fix. Also I'm sure polaris doesn't want to fix all 2000 machines.

BTW: $3.2 million/ 2000 machines = $1600 per machine.

2000 machines x $10,500 per machine = $21,000,000.

I know they don't make that much, just showing some figures. I beleive any recall should definately be looked at by management and they should heavily scrutinize the project manager or program developer for that product.

Also, What sort of warranty will Polaris provide with their "FIX?"

 

[ghostrider dd]

I checked with my dealer here in ABQ, and he is unaware of any recalls. Only the reflash. He is a good friend and dealer and he was going to put in a call to see if indeed there are any upcoming recalls. I'll let you know what I hear.....I personally have had no issues whatsoever with my D8 and can't wait for summer to end!!

 

[trench]

Anyone think the recall has MORE to do with the '' the claimed " 154 h.p.

What happens when you find out the truth ?

The 09's are so far looking even weeker!!

I bought mine because 154 h.p.

A few motor's going down are to be expected, as far as the ecu's and reflashes and new 09 up dated ecu, have to be nothing other than substandared
polaris engineering , and a complete embarrassment. Get it right... How hard could it be ?? ( and I WANT 154 H.P stock that means without slp's goody's)