850 gone down already??

[89sandman]

1001

 

[89sandman]

Ha Ha, dealers make nothing on new sleds, that's why they always have brand new trailers and $80,000 trucks. They just like to give them away so they can sell you a pair of bibs and a belt...

Anyone who believes at the end of the year after they get their rebates and discounts they are selling $14k sleds for a profit of only a couple hundred dollars must not understand the laws of economy.

 

[Devilmanak]

1,000 posts!
Yay

LOL. I was like WTF?

 

[06redrevx]

1,000 posts!
Yay

Do you own an 850?

 

[turboless terry]

Ha Ha, dealers make nothing on new sleds, that's why they always have brand new trailers and $80,000 trucks. They just like to give them away so they can sell you a pair of bibs and a belt...

Anyone who believes at the end of the year after they get their rebates and discounts they are selling $14k sleds for a profit of only a couple hundred dollars must not understand the laws of economy.

Exactly. That is like the car dealer trying to tell you they only make a couple hundred dollars on a new truck. Pretty offensive. I bet they make 10 grand on a new truck and 5 grand on a used one. You don't keep a dealership alive on a couple hundred dollars.

 

[kanedog]

You fackers derailed this thread.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Jaynelson]

Exactly. That is like the car dealer trying to tell you they only make a couple hundred dollars on a new truck. Pretty offensive. I bet they make 10 grand on a new truck and 5 grand on a used one. You don't keep a dealership alive on a couple hundred dollars.

You could probably estimate about 8% margin on a new car and truck profit and be in the wheelhouse. Not counting rebates and whatever... but most of that is advertised these days, so it’s not like you hold on to any of it. On the vehicle itself....not counting any extras, but also not counting any expenses. So if you grind the guy for some stuff/discount..he very well might be making a few hundred bucks. $4k profit minus the couple grand you wanted off minus the box liner you needed thrown in minus the $1k over allowance on your POS trade in = a few hundred bucks. People think there is magic fairy dust, but it’s very simple math. Now...you add some financing, accessories, future service, selling the trade (which the next guy will grind on and have some other POS to trade) ..and the business starts to make sense. But not everyone pony’s up for extras, so it’s a big risk to base business on that. A good rule of thumb is that every component of a business should be able to operate as a standalone business. So selling sleds or trucks at a loss hoping that people buy more parts is sketchy territory.... but you do end up riding that edge sometimes. Not sure why it’s offensive to tell it like it is.

I just never understand why so many people are jaded when dealers make money. Provide a service people seem to want...work hard....go spend money down the road just like anyone else....world keeps turning and all that good stuff. I’ve worked retail and bought/sold stuff my whole life and never been worried about what a welder or a farmer makes...and if they told me, I probably believed them...and didn’t really care. Everyone who collects a pay cheque is selling something to someone...either directly or indirectly. Dealerships are high risk, time consuming, volatile, no pension, and not for everyone....they should generate good money for those involved.

End rant

 

[tdblakes]

This thread has been off the rails for a long time...

Dan, what is your Polaris source telling you for an actual failure rate on the 850 fleet?

 

[indydan]

Sorry Dan but i have to disagree with you on this one. First i own 2 Polaris dealerships(1 is a polaris/yamaha/honda and 1 is a polaris exclusive dealer), 1 Toyota, 1 Nissan, 1 gmc/chevy/buick and 2 fairly large used car(exclusively) dealership as well. My Polaris exclusive dealer(400 units new and used) makes twice the net profit of my nissan dealer(375 new/used units)......my toyota and gmc dealers makes double my polaris' with about 450 new/used units.....Polaris and BRP are the only manufacturers worthing to invest money into up to date infrastructure, where return on investments makes sens. I have much better gross margins with polaris than Nissan and on par with toyota and gmc. one problem we have with the powersports industry is on the warranty work. we get paid cost +15% vs cost+35% in the car industry and the flat rate in the powerspoerts are ridiculous compared with the automotive, therefore making it very difficult to be profitable in the service department. As per the car industry, the finance and insurance department is as profitable as the units sales....in fact better! i have travelled a lot in the states and i can tell you the u.s. powersports dealers are decades behind estern Canada(specificaly in Quebec) in infrastructures and operation. too many small shops and owners that didn't adapt to the new internet rules of doing business in the retail market. internet can be at the same time you best ally or your worst enemy! i have to tell you your right with the gross margins shrinking every year but at the same time the retail market pie is expending and your sales opportunities are growing drasticaly so you have to be able to catch those new web opportunities and that is why a lot of the small shops are going south. the day you would run a very small dealer to get yourself something to eat and a good bargain on a sled are over, just like the car industry, the powersports industry is shifiting digital and much faster then i have seen the car industry shifting(the crowd is much younger and web oriented). I can go on another 2 pages but at the end, the car and powersports industry is moving at a record speed and you must adapt your way of doing business accordingly. forget about arctic cat, yamaha, honda, suzuki, kawasaki and all others, the only one worth investing money as a dealer are number one: BRP and number two: Polaris. i would buy another dozen Polaris dealers anytime and i would make extremely good money and the return on investment is realy amazing once you adapt to the industry of retailing vehicules in a digital world and mastering the finance and insurance department.

This is an AWESOME POST !

WOW ! I know you said you disagree with me.......

But I am pretty sure you would disagree with me if I said that about your dealerships.

But as for mid-size to small dealerships in the United States it’s on pay per with what I explained.

And you also brought up up the point I made about the margins getting smaller

You are completely reinforcing my point.

You are moving your dealership into the future at a blistering pace compared to the USA...... I believe you are.

And I believe my shop has & is doing The same thing.

BUT....... if the OEM ‘s keep shrinking the margins you will run out of digital ideas.

The margins cannot shrink is very year.

Your great ideas are suppose to give you more separation net profit so you can afford to expand.

If they keep driving your gross numbers up and your net numbers down you will soon run out of space and energy and you will then start to level off and soon begin getting smaller and when that happens the end is near.

You are so spot on about powersports people refusing to get up to speed.

Again ...... GREAT POST !

Dan

 

[indydan]

Ha Ha, dealers make nothing on new sleds, that's why they always have brand new trailers and $80,000 trucks. They just like to give them away so they can sell you a pair of bibs and a belt...

Anyone who believes at the end of the year after they get their rebates and discounts they are selling $14k sleds for a profit of only a couple hundred dollars must not understand the laws of economy.

You are an uninformed moron.

And they do make more margin on the bibs and the belt... it’s mostly likely to sliver that pushed past NET zero

And you will forever be a employee...... if you think i’m Wrong smart man go buy a Polaris dealership and report back to the form in 2 years and show us your P&L

Funny there is always a few know it alls...... that actually know nothing at all.

Dan

Dan

 

[indydan]

I was going to post before, but it seemed like a stupid fight:
Dealers make more than $300 per sled as was previously posted. (If they choose to.) I know guys that paid over a thousand more than other guys for similar 850 sleds from the same dealer.
End of season kickbacks are usually over $300.
Sled margins are nothing like parts margins, but they are there. And the LARGE dealers can sell sleds for close to cost, if you use their financing. If you don't, the price goes WAY up.
Upselling parts is also where new sled sales make money.

This only happens when a new model with a new motor hits the market.

And it’s still a net zero EVERY YEAR after the typical warranty problems hit.

The few sleds they upsold on vaporizes and they are right back to the $300 average.

And you did mention.... and it is a factor..... ( can sell at almost cost ) and some do exactly that.

I will say this again..... except add ( in the USA DEALER ) I would see one Polaris dealer come on here and say I am dead wrong and owning a Polaris dealership is an organic experience and you can soon retire to the islands and live happily ever after.

Every w2 union worker with a full package in the USA makes more bottom line net then any owner of a midsize to small Polaris dealer.

Not counting the M & M type dealers.

I want to hear one argue with me & says its great to be a Polaris dealer.

I want to be wrong ! I would love to be a Polaris dealer if there was any money in it without it being a war.

I believe the reason you will not see a small to mid size dealer on here is because most of the owners do not know how to sign up and even log onto a forum.

And the only reason they have internet is to get e-mail and run their credit card machine..... and many donor use e-mail to this day.

Dan

 

[indydan]

Just wanted to mention there is no "side" between ID and myself. At all. I think ID was suggesting "pick a side" meaning are you with the proverbial "us" or "them".

Just a guess.

Proverbial “us” or “them”......

Spot on !

Dan

 

[dragona1]

Anthony11 how is the new mill running now? I think lots of guys would like to know on here.

 

[Ride_The_Rockies]

No disrespect to anyone but could we please stay on topic!! I have a new 850 and I am following this thread to find out about the motor issues. If you want to discuss how much a dealer makes or doesn't make or what "side" you are on. PLEASE start a new thread. I prefer not to have to sort thru all the stupid BS that has nothing to do with the original topic!! Thank you. rant over, I'll now hop off my soapbox.

 

[Solarguy]

Dan, thank you for all the input. Do you have an idea of how many failures there are to date?? As far as I can tell it would seem to be (internet reported) a hundred or less??
Wife and I are both over 200 miles and loving these sleds. Wife is improving quickly on her 850. Photo from yesterday, couldn't believe what she was trying and pulling off as she is not an aggressive rider.

 

[tdblakes]

This thread has been off the rails for a long time...

Dan, what is your Polaris source telling you for an actual failure rate on the 850 fleet?

Dan...? I think you missed a post when you were responding to everyone about dealer profit margins...

 

[boondocker97]

Ha Ha, dealers make nothing on new sleds, that's why they always have brand new trailers and $80,000 trucks. They just like to give them away so they can sell you a pair of bibs and a belt...

Anyone who believes at the end of the year after they get their rebates and discounts they are selling $14k sleds for a profit of only a couple hundred dollars must not understand the laws of economy.

A lot of the guys that are badgering the dealers to sell them a sled at just over cost because if not they'll drive 500 miles to another dealer that will are also driving those $80k trucks and new trailers! None of the sled dealers in my area (any brand) are driving brand new trucks and trailers.

I think some of the dealer discussion and margins are valid because it helps understand how/why Polaris will handle things if there truly is a 900 or 800 Dragon fiasco coming down the pipe. I ride Cats, but I wish no one ill will with their new sleds.

 

[raleigh111]

Wallmart

Sorry Dan but i have to disagree with you on this one. First i own 2 Polaris dealerships(1 is a polaris/yamaha/honda and 1 is a polaris exclusive dealer), 1 Toyota, 1 Nissan, 1 gmc/chevy/buick and 2 fairly large used car(exclusively) dealership as well. My Polaris exclusive dealer(400 units new and used) makes twice the net profit of my nissan dealer(375 new/used units)......my toyota and gmc dealers makes double my polaris' with about 450 new/used units.....Polaris and BRP are the only manufacturers worthing to invest money into up to date infrastructure, where return on investments makes sens. I have much better gross margins with polaris than Nissan and on par with toyota and gmc. one problem we have with the powersports industry is on the warranty work. we get paid cost +15% vs cost+35% in the car industry and the flat rate in the powerspoerts are ridiculous compared with the automotive, therefore making it very difficult to be profitable in the service department. As per the car industry, the finance and insurance department is as profitable as the units sales....in fact better! i have travelled a lot in the states and i can tell you the u.s. powersports dealers are decades behind estern Canada(specificaly in Quebec) in infrastructures and operation. too many small shops and owners that didn't adapt to the new internet rules of doing business in the retail market. internet can be at the same time you best ally or your worst enemy! i have to tell you your right with the gross margins shrinking every year but at the same time the retail market pie is expending and your sales opportunities are growing drasticaly so you have to be able to catch those new web opportunities and that is why a lot of the small shops are going south. the day you would run a very small dealer to get yourself something to eat and a good bargain on a sled are over, just like the car industry, the powersports industry is shifiting digital and much faster then i have seen the car industry shifting(the crowd is much younger and web oriented). I can go on another 2 pages but at the end, the car and powersports industry is moving at a record speed and you must adapt your way of doing business accordingly. forget about arctic cat, yamaha, honda, suzuki, kawasaki and all others, the only one worth investing money as a dealer are number one: BRP and number two: Polaris. i would buy another dozen Polaris dealers anytime and i would make extremely good money and the return on investment is realy amazing once you adapt to the industry of retailing vehicules in a digital world and mastering the finance and insurance department.

You are the Wall Mart of the polaris dealer in your area. You have the insight and forward looking mind to keep things going. New markets, internet sales, web advertising. If you were to open 12 more Polaris dealers you would be competing against yourself in online sells. Logistics is the biggest issue! No one likes to drive 2 hours to the dealer. Your success has come at the expense of your competition and the logistics for the consumer become farther. It is a catch 22 for the consumer as they shop online to get the best price and on a lot of parts logistics is not a issue. Free shipping is everywhere, even larger items as tracks are shipped free from a lot of places, but then we as consumers watch the one dealer we liked to buy our sleds from around the corner go out of business as he did not adapt as you did. I am not smart enough to know the answer but i am aware enough to see what is happening. This in no way is a bash to you, you just have evolved faster then your neighbor and adapted. I for one do not shop at Wall Mart and i try to support the little guy even if it cost a few more bucks. I think a lot of small business owners feel this same way but it is definitely the majority that follow the all mighty buck first and see the consequences later. I feel from Polaris mind set or any other manufacture they need to look at logistics. When the big keep getting bigger they swallow up the rest and we have one dealer within every 200 miles. What gives here? Maybe the future will be more Tesla like and you buy your sled online and the UPS guy drops it off at your door? Warranty claims UPS picks it up? Wait maybe i need to invest more in logistics companies and forget the lithium market i lost so much on in 2018? We the consumer are partly to blame for where we are and it is no fault of yours to take advantage of it. The question is, is this really where we want to be? I don't think we have a choice.

 

[kanedog]

Mods clean up this thread please. If you clowns wanna talk about car dealerships, costs, walmart etc start your own thread.

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[Devilmanak]

Just a guess, the mod that was here was insulted and disrespected several times, and probably doesn't give a rat's behind where this thread goes any more......