• I've received emails and PM's asking me about "Group Buys" and promotions.

    A Group Buy here on SnoWestOnline.com would be a situation where a normal member (non vendor or mfg) personally collects orders from other members. That member then uses those orders to negotiate a better price with the Vendor/Mfg for HIS/HER "Group" of buyers.

    Here is an example of a viable "Group Buy"

    http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269222

    A promotion that has the words "Group Buy" in the title is still a promotion, and from the rules that were handed down to me by Harris Publications is that non-advertisers cannot run promotions or open sales programs on the forums outside of the swapmeet.

    If a members wants to become a group buy manager, maintain a thread and collect the funds and negotiate a group buy... as a member, you are welcome to do that as long as you are not attached to the business of the vendor or Mfg.

    If you are a vendor/MFG and you want to offer an EXCLUSIVE "SnoWestOnline ONLY" promotion that is exclusive to snowest readers, please contact me and you'll be able to put it up in the Polaris forums.

    Also, before any vendors/mfgs get all "riled up" over this know that the moderators are strictly volunteers and do not receive a dime from any advertising $$ spent on this site.

    As ALWAYS, since DAY ONE of me becoming a moderator, I have pioneered, supported and encouraged vendors and mfgs in getting the word out to our readers with "New Product Announcements.

    Have a great season.

    From this point on, all vendors/mfg's promoting Pre-Season tiered sales programs, in the Polaris Forums, that are not paid advertisers will be appropriately moved to the swapmeet section of the forums.

    MH

850 gone down already??

ANTHONY11

Active member
Dec 16, 2018
8
27
13
3rd ride on my Assauly 850. Not sure wtf happened. Started from garage (not heated) and put it into my truck. Started right up as usual.

Drove 20 min to location and sled would not start. Plugs dripping wet. Pulled plugs and pulled over engine multiple times to clear fuel out of engine. Dried plugs off and finally got it going. It ran like a bag for a few minutes until i cleared it up.

After about 15 minutes, I took off from a stop about 1/4 throttle and sled shut right off and died. I almost flew over handle bars. Engine feels tight when trying to turn over and started it but shut it right off. Sounds like something bad in the bottom end (crank bearings?)

Has anyone ever seen this or heard of this? Sled has 80 miles on it 91 octane only VES Extreme and has not been beat on and following proper break in procedure.

Pulled plugs after I got towed back to the truck and they look slightly tan.

Thoughts?
 
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FatDogX

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Dec 27, 2008
2,810
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113
ND
First off..........This is your first post???????

How about some more details and pics ?
 

ANTHONY11

Active member
Dec 16, 2018
8
27
13
Yes first post. First time riding a Polaris product. I will get some pics tomorrow at my dealership.
 

jptbay

Member
Feb 26, 2018
42
14
8
Keep us posted.

Handful of reports of problems, but nothing really documented here. Lots of skepticism.

Would be great if you could really document your findings.

One reported issue of oil line coming off, another of mis-applied sealant in the case halves during assembly.
 

AaronBND

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 12, 2005
1,696
443
83
Cascade Mnts, OR.
First off..........This is your first post???????

How about some more details and pics ?
Who the f**k cares about more details and pics. He told us what happened.... Jesus, you guys that feel like you need to be introduced or something when people lay down their first post.. WtFC!
 

FatDogX

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Dec 27, 2008
2,810
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113
ND
Who the f**k cares about more details and pics. He told us what happened.... Jesus, you guys that feel like you need to be introduced or something when people lay down their first post.. WtFC!


Not saying it did or did not happen.

All I’m saying is more details would be nice, especially since it is his “ first” post and he just joined the site.

I for one trust a lot of guys on here and just want what’s best for the site and all the members. That’s all.

I apologize if it came off in a negative tone.



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kidwoo

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Dec 28, 2008
2,087
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113
WHY THE HELL WOULD A GUY WITH SNOWMOBILE QUESTIONS SIGN UP FOR A SNOWMOBILE FORUM AND SUBMIT A FIRST POST!!!!??????


Sounds fishy.




Sorry to hear man, but that thing is definitely under warranty and I'd get your dealer to check it out. Really hope it's not your motor.

Also: this place kinda sucks sometimes. Sorry about that.
 

dragona1

Active member
Dec 2, 2012
48
30
18
Quahog
I have joined many a forum with all of my toys and vehicles for assistance when there is a problem and need help to fix it my self. If my 850 goes down it will be going to the dealer. I wont be coming on here to whine about it. It has a 4 year warranty for crying out loud. If Polaris and the dealer don't get it fixed to my satisfaction then I will be telling everyone about it.
 

indydan

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 27, 2007
1,158
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113
Welch, Minnesota
www.indyspecialty.com
You're not alone

3rd ride on my Assauly 850. Not sure wtf happened. Started from garage (not heated) and put it into my truck. Started right up as usual.

Drove 20 min to location and sled would not start. Plugs dripping wet. Pulled plugs and pulled over engine multiple times to clear fuel out of engine. Dried plugs off and finally got it going. It ran like a bag for a few minutes until i cleared it up.

After about 15 minutes, I took off from a stop about 1/4 throttle and sled shut right off and died. I almost flew over handle bars. Engine feels tight when trying to turn over and started it but shut it right off. Sounds like something bad in the bottom end (crank bearings?)

Has anyone ever seen this or heard of this? Sled has 80 miles on it 91 octane only VES Extreme and has not been beat on and following proper break in procedure.

Pulled plugs after I got towed back to the truck and they look slightly tan.

Thoughts?
We unloaded our our new 174" - 850 and pulled the head to check the bench volume..... Found the cylinder finish to be as bad as the 2008 Dragon motor.

Also looked like the early 800 Ski Doo's that were eating ring faces.

We built a cylinder base torque plate, & Head torque plate and measured it up and put it in the power stroke for about 20 minutes with our finest super abrasive shoes.... And then plateau polished it with 2 finishing shoes.

Total time in the hone 40 plus minutes plus set-up. ( took out between .0003 to .0004 tenths )

Whatever 850's have the finish this one had won't make it thru the first season.

It's funny the cut away motor at the Polaris show had a cylinder finish like a mirror just the way Silcon Carbide cylinder have to be for long piston & ring life.

I'll try and post the before and after pics of the difference.

On our stock cylinder you can feel the cross hatch deep grooves with your thumb nail. ( this is a death sentence to a ring and piston )


After enough miles the Pistons will look like the oil pump stopped. ( the intake skirt will look like it was dragged down a gravel road. )

Silicon carbide should not have deep cross hatch like a cast iron bore. ( even cast iron should be plateau honed )

The silicon carbide process is so porous you have to plateau polish off the sharp peaks as much as possible .

Honing is a process required ( on a cast iron bore to remove threading from the boring process..... ( and to create an ( X ) cross pattern to #1 cut in the rings #2 hold oil. ( cast iron bores are very soft )

In a silicon carbide ( there is no threading ) from plating...... The silicon carbide
Is electronically applied..... ( very thin to under size it )

And it's harder then a honeymoon hard-on..... The hone is needed to then cut ( with ( DIAMOND ) impregnated super abrasive stones.

I said ( only needed to cut to size ) not to created cross hatch.... Cross hatch is a by product of sizing...... ( it's actually a bad thing ) on plated cylinders.

On silicon plated cylinders the cross hatch needs to be polish away as much as possible. ( from what I have found ) it's almost impossible to over polish and it is next to impossible to remove all the cross hatch.

Once you get that fine of polishing shoe the plateau gets long and smooth and it will no long remove anything it just creates heat.

You seem to hit a wall at about .0005 tenths.

Dan
 
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High Voltage

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Jan 30, 2003
969
228
43
Helena, MT
I have joined many a forum with all of my toys and vehicles for assistance when there is a problem and need help to fix it my self. If my 850 goes down it will be going to the dealer. I wont be coming on here to whine about it. It has a 4 year warranty for crying out loud. If Polaris and the dealer don't get it fixed to my satisfaction then I will be telling everyone about it.
I don’t see anything wrong with reporting an engine failure with only a few miles on it. Get off your high horse !

Thx. for the report, and keep us posted.
 

indydan

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 27, 2007
1,158
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113
Welch, Minnesota
www.indyspecialty.com
I have joined many a forum with all of my toys and vehicles for assistance when there is a problem and need help to fix it my self. If my 850 goes down it will be going to the dealer. I wont be coming on here to whine about it. It has a 4 year warranty for crying out loud. If Polaris and the dealer don't get it fixed to my satisfaction then I will be telling everyone about it.
I have new 850...... Mark my words, the wrath of failures of these 850 motors is going to rival the 900 if they all have a cylinder finish like the ones I have seem.

No dealer will be able to help....... Nor will Polaris.

The only thing that will save the piston & rings....... Is a completely different honing process

And the time it takes to do this does not fit the OEM time model.

It's seems so strange that this would happen..... Polairs was really starting to show progress on the 800 cylinder finish....

Not all of them.... but a really good percentage were pretty good.

If you like your 850 and want to ride it a lot ( dig in your pocket and order a new set of pistons and a cylinder ) and stick it on the shelf.

I have a really bad feeling the wrath of hell is coming on the 4 year warranty.

We are really going to need it.:popcorn:

Dan
 

edgexcsp

Well-known member
Oct 22, 2009
263
45
28
NY
I have new 850...... Mark my words, the wrath of failures of these 850 motors is going to rival the 900 if they all have a cylinder finish like the ones I have seem.

No dealer will be able to help....... Nor will Polaris.

The only thing that will save the piston & rings....... Is a completely different honing process

And the time it takes to do this does not fit the OEM time model.

It's seems so strange that this would happen..... Polairs was really starting to show progress on the 800 cylinder finish....

Not all of them.... but a really good percentage were pretty good.

If you like your 850 and want to ride it a lot ( dig in your pocket and order a new set of pistons and a cylinder ) and stick it on the shelf.

I have a really bad feeling the wrath of hell is coming on the 4 year warranty.

We are really going to need it.:popcorn:

Dan
I guess I'm happy I didn't buy the first year, but the question now is how many years do we have to wait for Polaris to figure these engines out???
 

Murph

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Feb 6, 2008
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Truckee, CA / Santa Cruz, CA
We built a cylinder base torque plate, & Head torque plate and measured it up and put it in the power stroke for about 20 minutes with our finest super abrasive shoes.... And then plateau polished it with 2 finishing shoes.

Total time in the hone 40 plus minutes plus set-up. ( took out between .0003 to .0004 tenths )


Dan
Dan,

Is this essentially the HG7 finish or is this a new process?

Did you split the cases to look at the crank assembly/ construction/ production?
 

kanedog

Undefeated mountain clutching champ of the world.
Lifetime Membership
Oct 14, 2008
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I have new 850...... Mark my words, the wrath of failures of these 850 motors is going to rival the 900 if they all have a cylinder finish like the ones I have seem.

No dealer will be able to help....... Nor will Polaris.

The only thing that will save the piston & rings....... Is a completely different honing process

And the time it takes to do this does not fit the OEM time model.

It's seems so strange that this would happen..... Polairs was really starting to show progress on the 800 cylinder finish....

Not all of them.... but a really good percentage were pretty good.

If you like your 850 and want to ride it a lot ( dig in your pocket and order a new set of pistons and a cylinder ) and stick it on the shelf.

I have a really bad feeling the wrath of hell is coming on the 4 year warranty.

We are really going to need it.:popcorn:

Dan
When you discovered the problem, did you start to sweat, shake and feel sick to your stomach?



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RMK-King

Moderator
Dec 25, 2007
1,789
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North Dakota
The only thing that will save the piston & rings....... Is a completely different honing process

And the time it takes to do this does not fit the OEM time model.

It's seems so strange that this would happen..... Polairs was really starting to show progress on the 800 cylinder finish....

Not all of them.... but a really good percentage were pretty good.


Dan
Is this silicon carbide process different than the nikasil used on previous engines? How were the 800HO engines honed?
 

Reg2view

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Feb 1, 2010
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Key question - who hones the 850, Poo or a vendor, and are they the same folks, and location, that does the 800s? Start there...
 

indydan

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Side notes

When you discovered the problem, did you start to sweat, shake and feel sick to your stomach?

Tapatalk
Haha ! We just all looked at each other and said WOW !!

That’s gotta come apart and get fixed....

The big problem with this is this....

I have a $25,000 Power stroke hone with the most advanced
Finishing process for Silicon Carbide ( Nicasil )cylinders, Sorry same thing different title....

We are buried this time and do not have the man power to just Re-hone Polaris cylinders..... our hone is busy doing the motors we sell.

It runs most often 2 to 6 hours per day for next 3 months.

We need another hone.... ( the new automatic sizing hones start
At $60,000 Base priced with out tooling )

Delivered & tooled up the basic unit will be $80,000

And I wouldn’t want that one.... the one to buy is $130,000
Base for full auto ( delivered with tax & tooling $150,000 )

Then I would have to hire a guy to run it.... ( then he needs to be trained)

I hired a new guy last spring and have been training for the last 4 months how
To hone with accuracy & precision.

Honing these ( Nicasil ) silicon carbide cylinders is no game.

And it can not be done with a drill in a parts washer. ( with a budget $400 snap-on Anco hone )

The hone we have us just barely adaqute to service
Our own in House work ( and then throw in our honing customers ) we can just barely keep up with seven guys.

So if anyone thinks for one second we are looking for work
You are on crack.

Not only do I hate honing, I hate the money required to maintain
Equipment & staff to do it correctly.

The process for the old 800 & the 850 is the same...

But you have to stick to the same machines, same guys, same procedure
The 800 had towards the end. ( polaris is a * lowest bidder company * because of the stock market )

Honing is about consistency..... not lowest bidder. You gotta stick with the same guys and machines that work.

Short cutting honing on a cylinder as hard as silicon Plating will eat you alive in warranty.

Plus the tooling... ( has to be broke in ) in other words the super abrasive shoes
Have to be honed for hours and hours in Just cylinders to get them edge prepped ( and round to fit the bore ). And then those stones can only be used in that exact bore size.... ( because the radius on the face has been formed )

My business was almost destroyed by poor cylinder finish pre- October 15th 2015..... because the cylinders Coming from the plating companies
Was destroying the piston & rings.

Giving away well around 200 cylinders & 400 plus OEM piston kits will force you to find the problem..... or you will be gone.

At this moment in time... no one I have ever seen can put a final finish on a Nicasil cylinder like Indy Specialty can.

Not bragging.... it’s just a by product of what comes from a 3 year warranty.

If you are going offer a 3 year motor warranty you better make sure
The motor can make it well past that.

And that’s 3 years plus with guys who live in the mountains and ride 5 days a week all winter. Not just 2, or 3 trips per year.

The finish on the 850 is going to be a death sentence to a 4 year warranty ( yes there will be motors that won’t go down..... either the cylinder was better then the ones I have seen.... or they don’t don’t ride but a few times per year ).

You will be able tell trouble is coming..... when you can’t beat a Snall block
800 and your struggling to pull clutch weight past what the 800 runs...... you can bet the cylinder finish has already eaten your pistons

And the end is near.

I am to old to fear monger..... ( it’s in writing on a public forum)

Sit back and watch..... if its a good snow year it’s going to
Be a train wreck for 850 pistons

And ( NO ) there is not going to be an aftermarket piston that’s better then The OEM...... there never has been and never will be.

The OE BUDGET is far past the aftermarket.

It’s a cylinder finish problem when they eat pistons.

All plated cylinders we get are undersized.... then we torque plate everything.

Dan




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