team secondary

NoSoup4U · Jan 8, 2012

Found I had an alignment problem. I don't have an alignment bar, so I did it the redneck way. I knew that with the stock secondary I was in alignment, so I took the Team Tied off and set it on a flat surface next to the stock clutch. I set both clutches on the center shaft that contacts the alignment shims and eyeballed the outside edge of the fixed sheave to check alignment. The edge of the fixed sheave on the Team Tied was taller than the stock secondary. I added a .030 shim under the stock secondary and the fixed sheave was then even with the Team Tied fixed sheave. So, Team Tied is .030 inches further from the edge of the center shaft to the edge of the fixed sheave than the stock clutch. On the stock clutch I had two .060 shims installed (.120 total) to get it in alignment. I replaced the two .060 shims with one .090 shim so now I should be back in alignment with the Team Tied.

That should make a difference in both the clutch chatter and heat. So for those of you putting on a Team Tied, make sure you check alignment because it may be slightly different from the stock secondary.

geo · Jan 9, 2012

delete

White Rad · Jan 9, 2012

I put over a hundy miles on the team tied this weekend in 2-4ft of fairly heavy set up pow. Upshift is much faster and backshift is good maybe a little soft, but overall I really like the feel of this clutch!

Regarding alignment, I didnt have an offset bar either and was told if the stock secondary was set correctly to just bolt on the tied and it should be good. So I ran mine the first day with two shims behind the secondary and thought sheaves/belt were still a little hot. So then i pulled all the shims from behind the secondary, gave it 1/4 of float, and ran it with the track in the air watching to see where it naturally wanted to align itself. Even if I pulled the clutch all the way out against the float plug it always floated back against the jackshaft bearing...so day 2 i ran it with no shims behind the secondary and the recommended .030 of allowed float and things seemed much cooler? Not sure if the offset is correct as measured with teams bar but seemed to work for me based on field observations. I am going to re-check parallelism though and make sure the primary is not angled in. Splitting the float also makes sense to me, basically allowing the secondary to go either in or out from "zero" depending on how things change under power.

I also lost significant rpms went from 8200+ all day long to 7750-7800. Im sure the heavy snow contributed to this but still low. I need to try the lower helix angle but may end up pulling some weight from the primary (73g now), which is interesting since i was going to try 75's with the stock 2ndary to keep from over-reving. ohh and no more chatter here or hard hitting engagement just smooth as butter!

Last thing if you order a tied be prepared to put it together yourself. My usual all thread rod and washers didnt work to compress the spring because you need to get at this snap ring on the shaft. Also get some serious external snap ring pliers because your run of the mill ones will not open the snap ring far enough!

GlennRMK · Jan 9, 2012

White Rad said:
I put over a hundy miles on the team tied this weekend in 2-4ft of fairly heavy set up pow. Upshift is much faster and backshift is good maybe a little soft, but overall I really like the feel of this clutch!

Regarding alignment, I didnt have an offset bar either and was told if the stock secondary was set correctly to just bolt on the tied and it should be good. So I ran mine the first day with two shims behind the secondary and thought sheaves/belt were still a little hot. So then i pulled all the shims from behind the secondary, gave it 1/4 of float, and ran it with the track in the air watching to see where it naturally wanted to align itself. Even if I pulled the clutch all the way out against the float plug it always floated back against the jackshaft bearing...so day 2 i ran it with no shims behind the secondary and the recommended .030 of allowed float and things seemed much cooler? Not sure if the offset is correct as measured with teams bar but seemed to work for me based on field observations. I am going to re-check parallelism though and make sure the primary is not angled in. Splitting the float also makes sense to me, basically allowing the secondary to go either in or out from "zero" depending on how things change under power.

I also lost significant rpms went from 8200+ all day long to 7750-7800. Im sure the heavy snow contributed to this but still low. I need to try the lower helix angle but may end up pulling some weight from the primary (73g now), which is interesting since i was going to try 75's with the stock 2ndary to keep from over-reving. ohh and no more chatter here or hard hitting engagement just smooth as butter!

Last thing if you order a tied be prepared to put it together yourself. My usual all thread rod and washers didnt work to compress the spring because you need to get at this snap ring on the shaft. Also get some serious external snap ring pliers because your run of the mill ones will not open the snap ring far enough!

What helix and spring are you running and what elevation?

I just ordered the tied today with the AC960033 helix 71/55 or 71/57 .46 ER helix. I ordered a red black, black purple and red white springs to try. It was between that the 960000 73/59 or 73/57 helix.

I ride mostly 8-9k so I figured I would opt for the shallower helix.

I already have 68s in the primary with the yellow/green, so we will see how it works. I will post back when I get a chance to try it which might be a while, between waiting for the parts and snow.

Sage Crusher · Jan 9, 2012

Thanks Glen,
That is where alot of us ride- Please post yur findings- if we can get the information to end this madness......
I ordered today also but 2 weeks out:face-icon-small-dis

S/C

geo · Jan 10, 2012

delete

Sage Crusher · Jan 10, 2012

geo said:
If you're just waiting for an AC helix, you can take any of the other helix's for the Tied and machine a .100" off the bottom and you will have a AC helix.

Geo since your running the MDS ( i am thinking of running them) and we know from other postings that the team doesn't eliminate the belt chatter.. and 3 of us here have NO belt issues in 450 miles (But we have the chatter)... wondering if the cat offset tool will work for the team clutch,and the largest gain from this investment..... Glen Rmk is pretty good about finding out the best combo and sharing.
we still have concerns about the TCL and want to fix one problem at a time.

S/C

White Rad · Jan 10, 2012

GlennRMK said:
What helix and spring are you running and what elevation?

I just ordered the tied today with the AC960033 helix 71/55 or 71/57 .46 ER helix. I ordered a red black, black purple and red white springs to try. It was between that the 960000 73/59 or 73/57 helix.

I ride mostly 8-9k so I figured I would opt for the shallower helix.

I already have 68s in the primary with the yellow/green, so we will see how it works. I will post back when I get a chance to try it which might be a while, between waiting for the parts and snow.

I got the AC960005 helix and was running the 70-59-46-ER side with the red black spring at 3-6k elevation. Stock yellow spring and 73g in primary. Im going to try the 70/57 side and see if that helps but not sure i will get back enough rpms. i've always set up the primary for correct rpms then adjusted the secondary so it seems backwards to go pull weight from the primary to get my rpms back...i might have to try a shallower helix but im going to do some more testing first.

Also i no longer have ANY chatter, but i was running my new torque arm/motor mount so cant say if the clutch got rid of the chatter or not.

Too bad everyone seems to dislike the culter gold white because on paper the rates look great to replace the yellow spring (think its 135/305 and measured in the cat primary is 130/296) and i really like how it has one less coil so less coil bind! Any other primary springs with a slightly higher finish rate that people have tried other than slp (I've always found their springs to be slightly large OD and fit too tight in the spring cup)

dunatyk · Jan 10, 2012

I have cutler gold white in my 2010 and i have liked it

jkjasperson · Jan 10, 2012

I have run the gold white for years in lotts of diff sleds from m7, 900, 800mc, m8, to the proclimb. Spring works good for the way I ride. Just because one guy said it dosnt work for him dosnt meen it's junk.

GlennRMK · Jan 10, 2012

Cutler Gold/White spring feels great on the hard pack and makes the motor feel very snappy.

However, put in the powder and your trackspeed goes to hell.

I had the same result in my 2011 and my 2012. Although it felt even worse in the 2012.

dunatyk · Jan 10, 2012

Glenn
Have you tried cat orange/white

GlennRMK · Jan 10, 2012

No I haven't

Last year on my 2011 M8 I tried the SLP Blue/Pink (120/340), Cutler Gold/White and Yellow/white Cat, and liked the Cat spring by far.

In my 2012 I've run the Gold/White, Yellow/White and Yellow/Green. I think I like the Cat Yellow/Green but need a few more rides to verify. Seems to lack RPM on hardpack, but pulls great in the powder. Feels like its upshifting well. Need to swap in the yellow/white on the hill one day to compare.

dunatyk · Jan 10, 2012

That's a lot of finish on the slp. Never ran one that high. Orange white is no longer available but Speedwerx makes one in the same rate.148/290. I ran it in my pro climb and liked it but have no deep snow really

geo · Jan 11, 2012

delete

White Rad · Jan 11, 2012

might want to hold off...

until there is more snow...going to do some more testing

dunatyk · Jan 11, 2012

White rad lets ask the question to Geo and Racinstation too see if the have the wobble that you are experiencing. Those are two people that have had them on the snow. Ohh wait GlennRMK has one too right?

White Rad · Jan 11, 2012

going to try a tighter plug first...

dunatyk · Jan 11, 2012

Thx white rad. When i get mine ill check it and let ya know. Im new to the team so i might hsve alot of questions

Insaneboltrounder/sjohns · Jan 11, 2012

Interesting. No worry about it being too tight and binding?

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