who here has messed with tuning VES springs?

LoudHandle · Nov 29, 2014

gunnerthesnowman said:
OK , thanks for posting this, just so i understand this correct !

3086120 Cover and diaphragm ( sold as a set ) ( is this diaphragm the same that is on my valve now ? stock pro)

3086126- o- ring ( i don,t remember but i don,t think there is a o-ring in my stock set up , the bellows edge does the sealing

3085744 adjuster ( is this the blue cap in the cover ? )

So if i can get my dealer to order these , it just bolts on ?

Thanks

The part #3086120 is the cover or cap for the diaphragm, it is not included. The older diaphragms appear to be slightly thicker in the middle but are the same dimensions where they clamp and seal.

If you look at the posted photos; The O-ring goes in between the blue adjuster (part # 3085744) and the black actual cover. I believe it is there just for friction so the adjuster fits tighter and is not solely relying on the dents to keep it in place.

Yes they are a bolt on, As noted above the EV nut on the '12 and older CFI's have a conical indicator that does interfere with full opening if you do not drill a hole in the middle of the blue adjuster.

gunnerthesnowman · Nov 29, 2014

LoudHandle said:
The part #3086120 is the cover or cap for the diaphragm, it is not included. The older diaphragms appear to be slightly thicker in the middle but are the same dimensions where they clamp and seal.

If you look at the posted photos; The O-ring goes in between the blue adjuster (part # 3085744) and the black actual cover. I believe it is there just for friction so the adjuster fits tighter and is not solely relying on the dents to keep it in place.

Yes they are a bolt on, As noted above the EV nut on the CFI's have a conical indicator that may interfere with full opening if you do not drill a hole in the middle of the blue adjuster. (I have not confirmed whether there is or is not interference yet).

Thanks , please let us know if drilling a hole in the blue adjuster works , if so i will order the parts .

gunnerthesnowman · Nov 29, 2014

BILTIT said:
Here is a screen shot from the link above.

just call my dealer to order the white ones , in the chart part # is 7041705-06 but Polaris dealer part # for the white spring is 7041704-06 , hope its the same one !

NapaMatt · Dec 1, 2014

Keep the good info coming guys Good Read!!

Side note...

Any one weigh the "New" Exh. Valve.. As they have changed the older one From the 2011 Pro motor..

I did the update to the newer ones.. Also New Nut style..

Should of put them on a scale... Felt like almost 20 Grams heavier!

The cut outs they once had in the valve are much smaller almost not there.

This is also going to play in which spring you pick.. Vs.. which valve you have in your engine..

Just letting people know!!

geo · Dec 2, 2014

That's interesting too NM. I've only had the '13's in my hand.

Any time you have to move a mass, less is best IMO (why I ride a Pro lol).
Hmm. Drilling and porting the valves. Hmm. next thing?? lol.

LoudHandle · Dec 2, 2014

Thanks for the Intel NapaMat:

Since I have an '11 and a '13 on the bench, I pulled the valves to compare; The '11's are 13 Grams lighter as a whole unit.

The '12 and older guillotine has two larger recesses in just one side,
The '13+ guillotine recesses are symmetrical and smaller two on each side. Maybe to be more consistent (Stay straighter) with thermal growth?
The other major difference is the'11's have the male thread for the nut as part of the guillotine.
The '13+ Guillotine has female threads, and a one piece Stud/ Washer that threads into Guillotine and has the male threads and indicator as part of the Stud/Washer.

The '12 and older Diaphragm nut is Hard Anodized Aluminum and has the indicator, weighs 15 Grams.
The '13's Diaphragm nut is plated steel, and weighs 20 Grams.

I like the quality of the '13+ Guillotine, Stud/Washer, the fit and finish is better, If it stays straighter with thermal growth? That would be a plus. You can likely use the '12 and older style nut on it to save a few grams if you shorten the indicator stud on the '13 or modify the aluminum Diaphragm nut. I would shorten the indicator stud as it is plated steel and the heavier of the two materials, as the Diaphragm nut is Hard Anodized Aluminum. By doing this you would easily cut the weight gain in half or more.

NapaMatt · Dec 2, 2014

geo said:
That's interesting too NM. I've only had the '13's in my hand.

Any time you have to move a mass, less is best IMO (why I ride a Pro lol).
Hmm. Drilling and porting the valves. Hmm. next thing?? lol.

Well idk. Yes, to me Light weight is the quickest...

But if you think about the issues they are having It's normally when ur motor is loaded,, RPM dip.. and go in to a bog.. If the Exh Valve had more weight it might fall faster.. Closing the Exh valve sooner not getting the bog.. of when the exh valve is still open and rpm dip..

This is in my 2011 Crate Engine.. With Zero Miles on it..

This year ill find out if the new valve help or hinder...

I find it really Weird.. NO ONE Talks about the Bushing in the Exh. Valve base...

That's the only part I really wanted to change... BUt Polaris Does sell just a bushing... EEK.. Got to but the new base.. Well I figured a new Base, If I am spending the money on that might as well spend the money on new valves.. Thing is Polaris gives you the new # as a cross over, But doesn't tell you.. Your going to need the "new" Nut and Stud.. To fit new valve..

Heres some ###

All the "New ###

Valve.. 5138076
Base 1204445
Cap 5137602
Stud 5137733

NapaMatt · Dec 2, 2014

Loud! Thanks for digging out ur scale!

13 Grams.. A lot of weight!
Also see they went to an Orange Spring..

I'lll Bring up another Topic..

On the Bases...

Each time your valve comes Open.. It Stops.. When your valve hits the bottom of the Base.. Think of how many times your valve opens each time you ride.. A lot right!!

How easy is is to crush a pop can..

Well over time your Exh. Valve base.. Gets Smashed down Very small.. Maybe be over anal on my stuff.. It's the little things that add up to be huge deals!

But over time it will add up..

Another reason I went with new bases..

Each time this happens your exh valve can open a little further.. you know about .0001!! lol

geo · Dec 2, 2014

LOL. Talk about detail.

Don't think I will do anything about weight right now lol but, NM's mention of the valve base brings up another "theory" question.

Does the top of the valve in the open position finish the seal on the bellows (shaft bushing clearance)? If the gasket is shot is there a leak here? Does it matter lol?
Gunner, your Pink springs started to chatter too. Were your gaskets shot on disassembly?
I tried some aluminum ones I made a couple of years ago (easier to make) but they were flattened by the valve-heat (??) pretty good so last fall I made them from some stainless and they are still in place because they looked fine. Do I have a leak?

It will be interesting to see how the stock orange and later the green work in relation to the ECU controlled solenoid. I just have to remember, right light valve left light solenoid, right light valve left light solenoid ,,, lol.
Might even have to throw gaskets in the mix now. Dang, enough info! lol.

Funny what some people do for fun, eh!

LoudHandle · Dec 2, 2014

For those who want to try the old style adjustable caps

Geo, some more info for you and others;

For those who want to try the old style adjustable caps;

The hole needs to be drilled in the blue cap for the valve to reach full open with the '11 and older style Diaphragm nut and be able to see / feel the valve when open. Otherwise it's stopped roughly a 1/4" short of full open.

If installed on the '13 and newer Exhaust Valves, they will open fully without drilling the hole but you will have no visual confirmation of proper operation.

I just drilled the hole in the blue adjustment cap. The '11 and older style Diaphragm nut indicator at full open sticks above it about an 1/8" so it can contact your micro-switch without having to a lot of messing about. The '13 and newer style indicator is about 1/4" below flush.

Likely the easiest way to center it with what most have in the garage. I found that a large (5/8" thread) hole saw arbor is near perfect fit to the ID of the blue adjuster. I removed the set screw for holding the 1/4 pilot bit and held the arbor in the blue cap, bottoming it so it was square, and ran the 1/4" pilot bit thru the blue cap. It is plenty close enough for most of us. A 1/4" hole is large enough unless you prefer to use a straw as TRS pointed out previously for a visual indication.

For those that don't care about seeing / having a visual indicator you can use the original style (non-indicating) aluminum Diaphragm nut and save an additional Gram or two. For the '11 and older no modifications are needed. '13 and newer either the indicator needs to be cut off, or the nut drilled for the indicator to fit thru.

FWIW

gunnerthesnowman · Dec 2, 2014

geo said:
LOL. Talk about detail.

Don't think I will do anything about weight right now lol but, NM's mention of the valve base brings up another "theory" question.

Does the top of the valve in the open position finish the seal on the bellows (shaft bushing clearance)? If the gasket is shot is there a leak here? Does it matter lol?
Gunner, your Pink springs started to chatter too. Were your gaskets shot on disassembly?
Gaskets were fine, since mine is a 870 Big Bore my 2013 guillotine were cut down and then i used my 2012 base, diaphragm and cap
I tried some aluminum ones I made a couple of years ago (easier to make) but they were flattened by the valve-heat (??) pretty good so last fall I made them from some stainless and they are still in place because they looked fine. Do I have a leak?

It will be interesting to see how the stock orange and later the green work in relation to the ECU controlled solenoid. I just have to remember, right light valve left light solenoid, right light valve left light solenoid ,,, lol.
Might even have to throw gaskets in the mix now. Dang, enough info! lol.

Funny what some people do for fun, eh!

ttt

LoudHandle · Dec 3, 2014

Note: I updated post #66 and 70, as I looked at the online fiche to verify the year of the change and failed to notice that all the older stuff had been superseded. The EV Updates Happened for the '13 Model Year.

Pownar · Dec 3, 2014

600 Springs

What have people tried running the 600 at mostly 6000'

TRS · Dec 3, 2014

Pownar said:
What have people tried running the 600 at mostly 6000'

Blue or Blue/White they booth have the same rating. One is double the price. They are Polaris parts.
Blue 7041704-01
Blue/White 7041786-02
Edit: Carb 600 with EV solenoid hose plugged use Blue
CFI2 600 use the purple

benltr · Dec 3, 2014

I ordered the green/white for my Pro rmk 2014 163.

I will ride mostly between 2500' to 3300'. We'll see if there is a difference at this altitude vs OEM orange.

For the others guys that said they will try it soon at this altitude keep us updated !

druchti · Dec 7, 2014

Hey i got my green whites today and they are a fair amount longer then my stockers and a little bigger diameter ..is this right?

BILTIT · Dec 7, 2014

Ya they could be, they come in different lengths and coil diameters. I think they also use different spring thickness aswell to get the desired tension properties.

richblazer · Dec 7, 2014

can any one post link to the previous page that lays out the diff in springs for elevation ????? thanks

jdw1 · Dec 8, 2014

richblazer said:
can any one post link to the previous page that lays out the diff in springs for elevation ????? thanks

Post 33

richblazer · Dec 8, 2014

that is exactly what i am looking for but i have never messed with them how do you know if the spring is to stiff or not stiff enough ??????

who here has messed with tuning VES springs?

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