AXYS Down on 1500RPM

die hard poo · Jan 13, 2016

trussell456 said:
so your test ride showed 1000 rpm over what you were getting with the new slp pipe, and you were on ice. with a cvt clutch resistance=rpm so im willing to bet once you get into some actual snow instead of on ice your rpm will be even higher than the 8000 you were seeing on the test ride.

On the trail in the mtns with no load it was higher rpm than when in deep snow, so I don't believe there has been any improvement. However I won't know till I actually get to go which I am hoping tomorrow.

And I am not sure I follow what you're saying with resistance=rpm?

die hard poo · Jan 13, 2016

jmaxdox said:
First of all I hope you find your answers with everybody's helpful info on here. The fact that your seeing issues at just over 500 miles and that you say it happens like a light switch brings some deja vue feelings of my 60th Anniversary Switchback from last year. "Which I traded in to a dealer which was fully aware of my issues"

Does the light switch come and go? In other words has your rpm just gone down and went away or does it go from good to bad with no typical reasoning's? When rpm's drop a definite noticeable sound in engine tone. I started nicknaming my sled the blatting Goat when she would act up. "Never ever threw a Code"

My old Switchback would run great 20-30 miles then turn into a turd for a while. Like a switch start ripping azz again and bring a smile to my face for a while. Then the switch would flick and ruin the mood. Temperatures outside wouldn't help bring any conclusion. Dealers would hit their Polaris checklist looking for the problems without any success. "TPS, Exhaust Valves, belt, etc..."

Like I said, listen to everybody else's opinions and hopefully somebody helps you find the cure. I hope you find it and I will keep an eye on this thread to see where you end up. If you end up not finding any answers from the help of your dealer and the help of helpful people on the forums feel free to PM me. I've found that talking of such problems on the forums will get you called a troll and people don't want to hear it.
In all truthfulness I've been a Polaris faithful person my whole life
and would never stir the pot to try to tarnish their name.

I don't think I have seen anybody offer this info yet? Try a new belt.

Thanks for the input,
I did try a brand new belt on the mountain with no change to the performance of the sled.
It was not a come and go type thing, once it didn't pull rpm, it stayed that way all day long. It may spike a few hundred rpm higher if you unloaded the motor but once it loaded, it would do the same.
Yes there was a noticeable sound difference, but that was because it wasn't pulling peak rpm.

I will definitely follow up if/when I figure this out.

trussell456 · Jan 13, 2016

die hard poo said:
On the trail in the mtns with no load it was higher rpm than when in deep snow, so I don't believe there has been any improvement. However I won't know till I actually get to go which I am hoping tomorrow.

And I am not sure I follow what you're saying with resistance=rpm?

https://www.ibackshift.com/article/calibrating-112.asp

Read about a third of the way down. Under where it says "installed a clutch kit, engine not revving enough (on trackstand)

trussell456 · Jan 13, 2016

trussell456 said:
https://www.ibackshift.com/article/calibrating-112.asp

Read about a third of the way down. Under where it says "installed a clutch kit, engine not revving enough (on trackstand)

I know the clutch kit part doesn't apply to you, but the article explains resistance

die hard poo · Jan 13, 2016

Hmm ok, learn something new everyday. Definitely a weird concept that resistance increases rpm. I guess I can see that with a load on the sled, it cause the rpm to build slightly slower, allowing the primary to fully shift out... I will report back with the clutching I had in it with the stock pipe/can and see if that made any change in the mtns.

sno*jet · Jan 13, 2016

just throwin it out in one of buradnt's lovely candid commentary vids he says "after 500 miles you loose 500 rpms, its just what they do"
i think he was talkin the older pros, and your talkin 1500 rpms i know, but just thought it was odd... i would be pissed to be 500 rpm down after 500 miles and nothing you could do...

AKFULLTHROTTLE · Jan 13, 2016

Tuning... After the oil mode, detuned.

jmaxdox · Jan 13, 2016

sledheader said:
I followed the fade issues fairly close last year but I don't think this guy is having the issue. Seems like it's a pipe issue (for whatever reason). If you read his post, it was after he changed to a different SLP pipe that it started, and the "light switch" hasn't been turned back on since. I haven't heard any fade issues with the 2016 sleds yet

I hope not to hear of any 2016 Fade issues. This Season is off to a very late start for a lot of people. Some haven't ridden there new sleds at all and a lot of people that have got out for a beat run have parked their sleds back in the garage until conditions improve. I'll start having more confidense after I myself get some more miles in and everybody else starts logging some miles as well. Come late March if it turns out that the 2016's are fixed, I'd have to say that Polaris found something that was causing the issue and made a hush hush change with the new 2016 build which would be Great News. The whole POLARIS TEAM TIPS and telling people that they needed new belts was just a lame cover up while they where making plans to correct the issue. Is that too wild to imagine? :face-icon-small-dis

die hard poo · Jan 13, 2016

Status update:
We received about 4" of snow last night, enough to do some testing at the house.
Test #1:
Stock pipe/can, 74g MTX weight, Team lime green spring(150/340) which is the setup I ran for 150 miles stock. Ran down the road for several miles, would pull 8100 rpm consistently.
Test#2:
New SLP pipe/can, same clutching. Now pulled 8350rpm and very consistent. Much better, but still only pulling stock 74g weight. I was running previously 76g and pulling 8400-8500rpm.
Test #3:
Threw the old cracked SLP pipe/can in. Ran exactly the same as the new SLP pipe, 8350rpm.
Test#4:
Added 2g of weight back to the weights. Pulled the RPM back down to 8100rpm. Didn't like it. So I removed the weight again. Tomorrow going the mtns for a ride.

Also was able to get it into my dealer to do some more checking. They plugged it into the digital wrench. The codes it had were nothing shocking:
-a few det codes (which i knew about cause it over-revved a few times on me over the last 500 miles
-low oil
-high operating temp (happened on the trail a couple rides ago due to low snow, hit 200*)

Also checked compression with the dealer's gauge, and both cylinders read 130psi. So my gauge is obviously reading low.

So all in all I haven't found a smoking gun, and while it seems to be running better, I won't know for sure till tomorrow. I will be running the SLP pipe/can tomorrow since the stock pipe didn't run any better, actually worse.

AKFULLTHROTTLE · Jan 14, 2016

Something in tuning, wondering if these sled would allow a ECU swap, one before the 18 hour oil mode?

die hard poo · Jan 14, 2016

The sled has like ~40hrs on it atm. I too been thinking its something to do with tuning, but not really easy to test unless I had a spare ECU... And those aren't cheap lol

iquizy · Jan 14, 2016

You could do a custom tune with a bullydog or power commander I think

AKFULLTHROTTLE · Jan 14, 2016

die hard poo said:
The sled has like ~40hrs on it atm. I too been thinking its something to do with tuning, but not really easy to test unless I had a spare ECU... And those aren't cheap lol

You just a need a buddies to test! If the sled allows it...

TRS · Jan 14, 2016

Did you pull the primary spring to see if it collapsed?

IQRIDR · Jan 14, 2016

You can easily swap the ECU's, there is no problem there. However I personally don't think thats where the issue is. Have you considered pulling the head and checking for scuffing? Have you been running the resistor and 92 octane with the pipe?

TimG · Jan 14, 2016

There was a theory that since the TPS is now on the PTO side that heat from the can would compromise it over time. You could check the baseline setting again, but even if it's good, the ideal way to eliminate this possibility would be to try a different TPS. Also, a leaking pipe to Y-pipe seal could be your problem.

Northstarrick had some good ideas here: http://www.snowest.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3844160&postcount=154

steepndeep800 · Jan 14, 2016

Try a new belt now and report back now that your closer on rpm. After that much time and miles on the belts they stretch and 200 rpm is within the area I have seen a stretched belt effect rpm

SRXSRULE · Jan 14, 2016

AKFULLTHROTTLE said:
Tuning... After the oil mode, detuned.

This is what I'm thinking. I'm at 40ish hours, 550 miles and nothing I do, check, or replace will get me back to the power I had around the 200-300 mile mark. Slp pipe/can and at one time I was running 69g weights and now im down to 66g weights in the same snow and riding area. Ive also notice my spark plugs are always black anytime I take them out.

The next thing I'm going to check is the EGT sensor to see if its still in spec. Eric

die hard poo · Jan 15, 2016

Update after a day in the mountains:
The sled seemed to run similar as it was around my house once I got the mountains. I was pulling around 8100rpm, which is much better but still didn't feel right. It seemed lazy to get to peak rpm. It didn't have that quick rpm climb like it did before, almost hesitant.

Also the weird thing was on the way to the riding area, I have to go through a higher elevation mountain pass and each time going through there the sled acted the same way as the initial rpm drop, only pulling around 7K rpm at WOT. Both ways consistent.

So my only options I would like to try is maybe a MAP sensor swap, and ECU.

And Chad to answer your question, I did not run the SLP resistor since so many people in AK claimed it didn't work correctly and were having good luck without it. I could pull the head off to look, but I would like to first exhaust these options first. And since it has good compression I don't expect to see any issues.

TRS- Yes I have swapped primary springs with no change to the sled

TimG- I doubt it is the TPS since it idles fine and on the digital wrench it seemed to have no hiccups or anomalies. The exhaust donuts appear to be good, no oil drips in the tub or signs of blowby.

Steepndeep800- I could try a new belt and it may account for some RPM loss, however with it acting up again through the mountain pass leads me to think it is a tuning issue. But my next ride I will try a new belt just to be sure.

IQRIDR · Jan 15, 2016

die hard poo said:
Update after a day in the mountains:
The sled seemed to run similar as it was around my house once I got the mountains. I was pulling around 8100rpm, which is much better but still didn't feel right. It seemed lazy to get to peak rpm. It didn't have that quick rpm climb like it did before, almost hesitant.

Also the weird thing was on the way to the riding area, I have to go through a higher elevation mountain pass and each time going through there the sled acted the same way as the initial rpm drop, only pulling around 7K rpm at WOT. Both ways consistent.

So my only options I would like to try is maybe a MAP sensor swap, and ECU.

And Chad to answer your question, I did not run the SLP resistor since so many people in AK claimed it didn't work correctly and were having good luck without it. I could pull the head off to look, but I would like to first exhaust these options first. And since it has good compression I don't expect to see any issues.

TRS- Yes I have swapped primary springs with no change to the sled

TimG- I doubt it is the TPS since it idles fine and on the digital wrench it seemed to have no hiccups or anomalies. The exhaust donuts appear to be good, no oil drips in the tub or signs of blowby.

Steepndeep800- I could try a new belt and it may account for some RPM loss, however with it acting up again through the mountain pass leads me to think it is a tuning issue. But my next ride I will try a new belt just to be sure.

Just putting it out there because after extensive testing and some data logging we have found that without the resistor plugged in, the motor is indeed running too lean and getting very hot in the chambers under 3500 feet. Enough to cause damage.

And still make compression.

I still suggest pulling the head and looking.

AXYS Down on 1500RPM

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