AFTERMARKET PIPES FOR TURBOS

I am also starting a turbo build this summer. I have talked to numerous people and have been told that you only want to use the stock pipe. All others are to weak. I have slp single pipe and was told I could use it but I would have to remove the ceramic coating and re-wield all the wields. They are too weak and will crack once you have a turbo on.

Whit:

Had dinner with Brad Story last week and looked at his proto 800 turbo. The pipe was wrapped and I didn't ask, but, it looked different than OEM. I was thinking that Jack S. at Carls was coming out with something. I can ask Brad if you don't have his info. His water to air intercooler on his setup looked like quite the deal. He said he was seeing charge air temps of 60 degrees or so. It had its own cooler in the tunnel. Might be something to consider. Have a good one. EW

sounds like he's following in Shane's foot steps with that one.

stock pipe still though. why wouldnt you wanna run it if it works?

http://www.hmturbos.com/Snowmobiles/Snowmobiles.html

I ran the SLP/OVS pipe on my sled all year without any problems. It worked much better than stock!

whittaker727 said:

OVS doesn't show a pipe on their site. Did you wrap it rather than coat it for any particular reason?
I'm just wondering what everyone is doing so that I can gather as many parts as possible before ordering my kit.

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I am also doing the same thing. I bought a stock pipe that he took the heat shield off and coated it with ceramic coating. Much heaver than the slp though. (I bought my sled with a slp pipe and didn't come with the stock pipe) What track are you going to run? I am running the D8 with the stock 155 track. I am also thinking of changing my track.

whittaker727 said:

I'll go with a 156 extreme

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How are you putting a 156 track on a D8 155? Do you buy some type of extension?

So what I am reading the only track that will work on a 08 dragon 800 is a the camoplast challenger extreme 155 x 15 x 2.5 /2.86? (without changing anything else) It says it weighs 55 lbs. What does the stock dragon track weigh? Has anyone seen an improvement enough to justify pulling the stock track off and switching it for this one?

CPI makes a turbo specific pipe thats made of thicker material for the Polaris.

All this talk about a turbo pipe.

I'd like to hear what specifically makes it better for a turbo or at least what the Mfg is trying to achieve with the pipe.

there are two things that the general pipe manufacturer looks to do, one make more HP two, make less weight! with less weight comes less metal and weaker pipes that can split under boost pressures! with more power comes sacrifices such as less bottom end , less throttle response and such!

the thinner pipes is a big part of why the aftermarket pipes do not last! and the other part i mentioned can have things to do with similar reasons why porting does not work with turbos! I am no porter or pipe builder, but I do have a question for them! I know that a certain head design will work with a certain pipe design, as well with a certain port design! so why am I supposed to believe that your pipe will work with my turbo! I have sen turbo kits that will run gret and some that will not even run , without mods! so who`s kit is you pipe designed forÉ that is the biggest questione turbo kits are just as variable as any other performance part! some work some dont!


If any pipe manufacturer is willing tu put there turbo pipe to the challenge then I will consider buying their product!

Maniac... I understand 2 stroke pipe design and the marketing of it...You bring up some good points!!

I have seen some of the turbo-specific pipes... they claim thicker metal on them and stronger welds..

My question is specific for the pipe mfgs as to what is THEIR pipe supposed to do and why.. It may take a while for them to chime in but I'm sure it will come.

Porting does make a difference for a turbo... but that porting can affect different aspects of the engine operation.

As is done all too often in the performance world (be it cars, boats, sleds, bikes etc)... Parts are bolted on as they see fit and not looked at from a "systems approach".

All the pipes in the world wont make the system work better if the system, including the pipe, is not looked at as a whole.

That system includes head design, porting, compression, airbox, turbo size, charge temps, charge tract restriction, exhaust restriction and many other factors. I don't know of a two stroke efi Turbo kit out there that has any control over ignition whatsoever... a major factor to be addressed if turbo systems are to gain flexibility in more riding situations... simply being able to add or subtract more fuel by modifying the ECU's output to the injectors is a good first step in making a good turbo system... but lets not kid ourselves here... turbo design is still in it's infancy today... only 3 years ago.. Turbo 2-strokes were looked at as "exotic"... now they are commonplace...

I cant see what happens when true refinement of the turbo hardware and control systems makes its way into the kit offerings. Surely fitting an automotive turbocharger to a snowmobile 2-stoke is not the optimal way to do it... I see efforts from producers like Tial to offer items to be tailored for the application, Aerocharger has shown that in a WELL DESIGNED system, they can prove to be a great setup... but we still have not seen a specific housing/compressor/turbine with the demands of a 2-stroke turbo system for a snowmobile specifically addressed.

In a turbo pipe ... I would hope that the issues of the user are taken into consideration... Some people want decent power on top, but really want a good grunty motor in the trees... willing to sacrifice that last speck of power for more user friendly traits throughout the powerband (eg's of some pro riders that fit this bill, Adams, Burandt, Rasmusen). Some people want to strictly top end power and every last drop that engine can muster (eg's Phelan, Davidoff, Story)...

One pipe fits all will not do the trick here... Nor does "one turbo system fits all" fit the bill.

IMO... look at the style of riding that ANYONE recommending performance part does, the location, altitude and experience level before you figure you should look to that person for guidance.

All too often I have read on the forums and talked to people that say things like... "My Race Gas T-800 makes 270 hp and climbs like no other...I can boondock it as well as any other machine out there"... In reality... I find that hard to believe.. Kind of like saying that your Funny Car makes a good rally car.

The world of performance is full of compromise... get more bottom end, give up some top...and vice versa... Make more power... make it more finicky...

Don't get me wrong...People like Adams and Burandt can ride the pizz out of a race gas turbo in the trees and bury all other people trying to follow... but are YOU Adams or Burandt??? Even close???

To me, a turbo-specific pipe should address some need... more bottom end response... OR more top end power... Faster spool... etc etc.. but in the end, it should deliver something that the customer wants to address and not just be an ambiguous "Better for Turbo applications"

I come back to my original question for the TURBO pipe makers...

I'd like to hear what specifically makes it better for a turbo or at least what the Mfg is trying to achieve with the pipe.

Shane S, Shane H, Gar, Derek F, Travis, Chris K, Junior, Erick, Brad, TJ, Dustin, and many other turbo kit and part makers that I see lurking on this thread.... chime in .... lets get a good level headed, fact filled presentation going here instead of all the voodoo talk and "chest-beating" that has been put out there for the customer to sift through.

I've decided to "sticky" this thread for a while...

Lets see what kind of action and level headed talk we get from this.

I dont want to see a bunch of "My turbo kit will kill your turbo kit" talk ...

Lets get some real technical, detailed information out here that will actually inform and help users/customers decide what they want to run.eep:

The problem I see with your logic is that I don't know of anyone that only rides the trees, or anyone the only hill climbs. Seems like all I know and know about like to hill climb, ride the trees, boondock, ect., or ride all terrain in their area. So it seems like largest market would be a mid-range power band pipe for a turbo which hold together and that is what we have. (stock pipe)

No logic problem... I know people that climb that will give up any semblance of boondock-ability to get the most power they can in WOT application.

I also know others that will boost their sled to say 4-6 lbs just to have consistancy of power at altitude.

I DO agree that the bulk of volume in sales of 2-stroke turbos is people looking for 200 HP or so... and most want as near naturally-aspirated throttle response off idle as possible... "impercievable lag"... This is where the high volume race gas turbos have a weak spot.... sure, a turbo-experienced elite level rider can make it work for them... but honestly, what percentage of riders are at this level??? I know everybody thinks they are advanced riders... that is until they ride with someone that is truly advanced.

For me... the target of 200 hp, regardless of altitude, with excellent off-idle throttle response, decent fuel economy, running on race mix or 100LL with a fuel controller that is self compensating for altitude and has minimal modifications necessary for install (IE... pipes that dont need to have a flange welded on, oil systems that need to be changed over etc)... now that is what I would call a truly "consumer friendly" design...My 2 cents.

Lets be honest here.. we ride in a world where 90% of owners wont work on thier sled till something breaks...Great examples of this are people that put in $300 into a clutch kit but wont adjust the belt deflection/ Wash the belt / clean the clutches and replace springs... Or adjust chain tension unless it rattles or breaks...

The average performance sled user really does not practice preventative maint... the average consumer can break an anvil...

Heres a quick test... answer yes or no to the following...

I wash/scrub my belt every 2-3 rides?

I clean the clutch faces every 2-3 rides?

I Check the chain tension every 2-3 rides?

I change my chancase/gearcase oil often?

I always use a funnel filter when filling from a gas can?

At least once a season, I check the toe in, and camber on my skis?

I check/adjust my track tension every 2-3 rides?

I have changed the injection oil line filter at least once in 1500 miles?

I clean my exhaust valves every 500 miles?

I lube the suspension and other chassis points every few rides?

I thaw out my sled often and let it dry?

Just like in a normally asperated at altitude ,,its all in the stinger size I have several pipes with different stinger diameters and all 3 pipes run different ,,clutch different and FUEL differently each set up has it positives and negatives but through trial and lots of error I found the one that does everything for ME!!! test and tune ,,test and tune

Just like in a normally asperated at altitude ,,its all in the stinger size I have several pipes with different stinger diameters and all 3 pipes run different ,,clutch different and FUEL differently each set up has it positives and negatives but through trial and lots of error I found the one that does everything for ME!!! test and tune ,,test and tune