Help Diamond S

[madmax]

I became aware of a situation last week that has really upset me. Ive been in the western sled community for close to 25 years now. What really makes this community great is the aftermarket innovator who has an idea, builds, tests and brings to market a new product that makes sledding better. Over the years Ive occasionally seen people copy and sell the "innovators" idea, R&D at its best (Rip-off and Duplicate). Never before have I seen anything that comes close to what is going one now. There is a company in Minnesota who had all of the Diamond S product line (every single muffler) sent over seas (Asia markets) and 100% exactly copied every muffler and are now trying to sell them as their own design. I can understand designing, building and testing your own product and then have it produced at a less cost over seas. Most of the parts on the sleds we buy are produced outside of the USA, as well as a number of aftermarket parts and clothing lines. Diamond S has been a small town Utah innovator in the sled market for 15 or more years and builds amazing Titanium products. Most people have no idea the time it takes Scott the owner of Diamond S to design, build, test and bring to market one of his Ti mufflers. I am asking the sled community to ban together help Diamond S protect their product/business and essentially cancel this the copy cat company. Im adding some links and pics of the other company, their copied products and their eBay and amazon store. Please spread the word.

Push Industries

Push Industries

www.pushinds.com

 

[Pickin’ Boogers]

Thanks for the link! Those look like a great deal.

 

[christopher]

There is a company in Minnesota who had all of the Diamond S product line (every single muffler) sent over seas (Asia markets) and 100% exactly copied every muffler and are now trying to sell them as their own design.

The "similarities" in the photos you posted is rather STRIKING to say the least.

 

[Teth-Air]

We had our Arm Candy, A-Arm braces copied by one of the popular aftermarket companies that often is mentioned on this site. The braces were identical except for the logo. As you say, it takes a lot of money and time to R&D products. It would be nice if potential customers would boycott companies that did this. Unfortunately this rarely happens.

 

[christopher]

We had our Arm Candy, A-Arm braces copied by one of the popular aftermarket companies that often is mentioned on this site. The braces were identical except for the logo. As you say, it takes a lot of money and time to R&D products. It would be nice if potential customers would boycott companies that did this. Unfortunately this rarely happens.

the one and only way I know to stop this sort of thing is to make sure everyone KNOWS it's happening.

 

[caper11]

If you have a product, and its a good one, you have got to protect that product with a patent, and keep up on it. Unfortunately thats the game and the world we are in. I know of lots of snowmobile parts that have been copied over the years, ****ty deal but it happens.


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[christopher]

If you have a product, and its a good one, you have got to protect that product with a patent, and keep up on it. Unfortunately thats the game and the world we are in. I know of lots of snowmobile parts that have been copied over the years, ****ty deal but it happens.


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Having a Patent is all well and good.
But it does NOT protect you.

Having DEEP POCKETS TO PAY THE LAWYERS to go after the infringers is what protects you.
And in this TINY LITTLE MARKET SEGMENT, that is MIGHTY DAMN HARD for a lot of small independants..

 

[Teth-Air]

Having a Patent is all well and good.
But it does NOT protect you.

Having DEEP POCKETS TO PAY THE LAWYERS to go after the infringers is what protects you.
And in this TINY LITTLE MARKET SEGMENT, that is MIGHTY DAMN HARD for a lot of small independants..

We looked in to the patent for another product and was told by a lawyer that if there is 15% difference in the products the patenet will not stand. Not hard to change a product that much without changing its purpose.

 

[caper11]

In the case of this OP, it’s dirty pool, but how right do you want to be? No patent, no documentation on who came up with it first, and its design. Just a money game if someone wants to infringe.


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[koolaid]

Usually, when another company rips off another's great product, they sell it cheaper. I looked up a 9R ti can on both sites. Both want $700. I don't get , usually you undercut my a couple hundred, unless they are promising to have it in stock. I love my Diamond S can but he seems to always have availability issues with 2-3 month deliveries common.

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[christopher]

We looked in to the patent for another product and was told by a lawyer that if there is 15% difference in the products the patenet will not stand. Not hard to change a product that much without changing its purpose.

true enough
But simply standing these two silencers side by side makes a rather compelling case that it was outright pirated.

 

[christopher]

In the case of this OP, it’s dirty pool, but how right do you want to be? No patent, no documentation on who came up with it first, and its design. Just a money game if someone wants to infringe.


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first to market, and by YEARS, make a pretty clear claim to who came up with it first.

 

[caper11]

first to market, and by YEARS, make a pretty clear claim to who came up with it first.

Patents are legal protection, with no patent, tougher to actually fight because there is no infringement on the design, it’s open for anyone to copy, technically diamond S does not have the right to sue if they want to pursue it.
Same as when a patent runs out open game when a patent expires.

What Happens if You Don't Patent Your Innovation - Patents Integrated

An issued patent demonstrates your legal ownership of your innovation. And without it, you don’t have legal rights to your invention. Here’s what happens if you don’t get an issued patent.

patentsintegrated.com

The crappy part of this whole scenario, what if the second company files for a patent.

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[Teth-Air]

Bottom line is the sledding is a small industry. If guys are decent they will not buy the China product. Hopefully the word gets out.

 

[christopher]

Patents are legal protection, with no patent, tougher to actually fight because there is no infringement on the design,

Again, a Patent is only worth the amount of COLD HARD CASH you have on hand to PAY YOUR LAWYERS.
A Patent in and of itself is utterly WORTHLESS without the financial and legal resources to ENFORCE IT.

 

[caper11]

Again, a Patent is only worth the amount of COLD HARD CASH you have on hand to PAY YOUR LAWYERS.
A Patent in and of itself is utterly WORTHLESS without the financial and legal resources to ENFORCE IT.

Yes I know this.
Betting chance in winning and receiving a settlement with a patent tho. This has been going on for over a century on inventions. My dealer got a patent on a snowmobile part, they thought it was worth the lawyer fees.


Look at the C3 syncrodrive belt drive. It had a patent pending label on it for a long time, I don’t know if it ever get patented, but I doubt it, other beltdrive makers showed up after the label disappeared off the C3 drive cover.

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[Winshady]

Diamond S on every sled I’ve owned. Light, quiet, and beautiful. Support this man!

 

[christopher]

Diamond S on every sled I’ve owned. Light, quiet, and beautiful. Support this man!

there ya go

 

[ippielb]

I like the way the diamond s cans sound for sure, and the weight loss. I have one on my ctec 800, and buddy has one on his boost. Mine has cracked in 3 different places, and his has had the stinger inside the can break off and rattle around inside. We were able to sand down the exit enough to wiggle it out. Wish they were a little more durable for the price tag.

 

[joshkoltes]

They don't look exactly the same
The necks and exits look different
Were they supposed to build them octagon shaped or something
How many different ways can you make the largest cylindrical part in a compact area
All that aside, if they are made in China it should be cheaper. Looks like about the same price so buy usa