Worst case scenerio for a primary that wont come off

Danbot · Jan 17, 2010

I searched and found some info about stubborn clutches and have in a round about way followed all the tips I found, with no success as of yet.

Ok, so after noticing some clutching inconsistency, I inspected my drive system and found 1 tight roller with a flat spot, and some sticking on the movable sheave in my primary... time to rebuild.
I have a puller, and tried to use it in the normal fashion, but without a clutch holder I felt limited because I didn't want to put a bar through the clutch. I tried filling the hole with grease, using teflon tape on the puller threads and letting water freeze overnight in the hole... no luck.

I decided to let my favorite Polaris dealer in my area deal with it. The plan was to drive up with the sled in my truck, have them pop off the clutch, and take the sled home`and leave the clutch for them to rebuild. They had no quick success either out in the parking lot.
Their puller was machined to work with some of the improperly machined 900 primarys, they tried grease in the hole, a small air impact, and holding the clutch.... eventually the spider started to turn

My clutch is in pretty rough shape! in spite of the fact I paid to have it inspected and repaired as nec. last year at another Poo dealer who did charge me for some parts and labor but I don`t recall the specifics unfortunately. They also had installed the clutch at what they claimed was the updated torque spec and with a new bolt.

Anyways, they still have my sled and were going to keep trying this week, and after lengthy discussion with the service manager, he tells me that in extreme cases when nothing else will get it off, the clutch can be gently cut off by cutting slots in the clutch just outside the crank and prying in the slots with a screwdriver to relieve the pinch on the crank. He claims to have gotten clutches that have been spun on the crank and fused to come off this way.

I value your opinions guys, really need some input on this. I can still call and cancel all work on the sled, they haven`t put it in the shop yet.
I have also found a deal on an almost new clutch through a fellow 900 SW member who lives very close, but one way or another I still need my worn out one off, and the loose spider seems like a huge obstacle. What do you guys think
Dan

Soule88 · Jan 17, 2010

well, it sounds like you've tried all the tricks that we use at the dealer im working for, and your about to the point where we cut them off too. It sucks to do but can be done with out damaging your crank. If that dealers mechanic is worth his salt he'll get it off with out damage to the crank that is.

High Velocity · Jan 18, 2010

Dan, other than what I mentioned to you on the phone, I have gotten stubborn clutches off in the past by getting the puller as tight as possible and then heating the center of the clutch with an oxy-acetylene torch. Did the dealer try giving the puller a quick, sharp rap with a hammer after tightening the puller as much as possible ?

POLZIN · Jan 18, 2010

High Velocity said:
Dan, other than what I mentioned to you on the phone, I have gotten stubborn clutches off in the past by getting the puller as tight as possible and then heating the center of the clutch with an oxy-acetylene torch. Did the dealer try giving the puller a quick, sharp rap with a hammer after tightening the puller as much as possible ?

This would be my suggestion as well! get somone to help by rotating the clutch while you heat it but use the pull cord because if the baby pops you dont want you hands anywhere near it.

Danbot · Jan 18, 2010

Yeah I forgot to mention it in my post, but they did apply heat with a smaller propane torch, and he did whack the end of the puller a few times. This was all tried in the back of my truck outside the shop though so maybe they will have better luck once it's in their shop.
So the cutting method sounds legit then (for an extreme case), I will let them continue trying to get it off then, it's definitely out of my hands at this point.
Thanks for the quick replies guys, I'll update as this unfolds.

HUNDO · Jan 18, 2010

It sucks but yep, it's time to cut it off

FatBoyzfrenchy · Jan 18, 2010

I had problems taking mine off a few times and I had good success by tapping the end of the puller with a hammer while applying pressure on the puller using a crescent wrench and a 4' extension bar on it.
My .02
FBF.

dexter · Jan 18, 2010

Put Machine outside in the cold. Try loading the puller as much as possiable with the air hammer, then pour boiling water on the clutch and hit the clutch puller on the end with a hammer (hit it quite hard). Repeat as many times as needed. Make sure the puller is racheted on as tight as possiable. Never ever seen the need to cut one off, don't think I would ( they can be quite stuborn though). Hope this helps

Danbot · Jan 18, 2010

FatBoyzfrenchy said:
I had problems taking mine off a few times and I had good success by tapping the end of the puller with a hammer while applying pressure on the puller using a crescent wrench and a 4' extension bar on it.
My .02
FBF.

You bet, this was tried until the spider started to spin, so now the only way to add more torque to the puller is with an air impact gun.

dexter said:
Put Machine outside in the cold. Try loading the puller as much as possiable with the air hammer, then pour boiling water on the clutch and hit the clutch puller on the end with a hammer (hit it quite hard). Repeat as many times as needed. Make sure the puller is racheted on as tight as possiable. Never ever seen the need to cut one off, don't think I would ( they can be quite stuborn though). Hope this helps

I think the shop is basically going to do this now except with a torch for heat.

I'll get ahold of the shop tomorrow and let them know my new plan. I now have a near-new clutch thanks to Ken aka High Velocity. So now I just need them to get mine off the crank by whatever means necessary, and I can just install my new clutch.
Thanks Ken for the good deal on the parts today, it was cool chatting with a fellow 900 guy. I really enjoyed looking over your sled as well, nice machine you have built! Hopefully we get some big snow soon and can meet up for a ride!
Dan

skibreeze · Jan 18, 2010

Are you sure that the puller isn't binding in the clutch it'self. The puller I have had a shaft that was too thick and after a few uses I could see where the annodizing was wearing off. I was always able to get clutches off, but it took some pounding and impact wrenches.

Danbot · Jan 18, 2010

skibreeze said:
Are you sure that the puller isn't binding in the clutch it'self. The puller I have had a shaft that was too thick and after a few uses I could see where the annodizing was wearing off. I was always able to get clutches off, but it took some pounding and impact wrenches.

My puller that I tried showed no signs of this, and the puller the shop was trying had been machined down to deal with this problem. It also showed no sign of interference.

machineman · Jan 18, 2010

First, DO NOT hit the puller with a hammer. This is the most damageing thing for the crank bearings. It is ok to tap the end of your puller but mnost people get aggrivated and hit it too hard. Tighten the puller and rap it is ok but not the best. The only bearing that sees the shock is the one with the snap ring on the O.D. this bearing takes the laterial load to keep the crank from walking back and forth and normal clutch opperating thrust.(very little with proper aligned clutches)

Lets dispell the myth of impact guns. All the shock load of a inpact is tortional, not laterial like a hammer or a hammer drill. yes there is a little "hammering if you push the gun tight against the puller. Just pull it back a bit not to hammer it. The bearings are deaigned to roll in the same plane the impact is hitting.

This will work every time. Yes its heating the clutch. Most people don't know the right way to heat. Its all about "flash" heating. this process is to use multiple heat sorces. (one will work) The idea is to put lots of heat in fast
to get the clutch to grow at a faster rate than the crank. The slower you go with a ineffective heat sorce the more heat transfers to the crank thus making it grow at the same rate, it stays tight.

You will need a buddy for this. Install your puller with neverseize on the threads. Have your compressor up and your good 1/2" inpact ready. I like to use a cutting head it is much more concentrated than a rosebud and you won't likley melt anything else. I like to use a #2 or #3 tip. If your worried about melting something cover engine and belly pan with soaked towels. light the torches and have your buddy ready on the impact. put the torches to the clutch and begin to heat keeping the flame concentrated on the streel at the base of the inner sheave. the sheave is a good heat deflector for the engine. With the torches on each side (opposed) begin to heat maybe 5 seconds or so and then hit it with the impact as you continue to heat by 10 seconds It should have come off. If It does not come stop heating you dont want any more heat to transfer into the crank.

I have NEVER not had this work the first time!

Himark · Jan 18, 2010

FatBoyzfrenchy said:
I had problems taking mine off a few times and I had good success by tapping the end of the puller with a hammer while applying pressure on the puller using a crescent wrench and a 4' extension bar on it.
My .02
FBF.

This IS what it takes. The key is the 4' cheater bar. I have 1/2 impacted with a hard hitting IR composite wrench...then upgraded to a 3/4 impact. I have wrapped on the puller and I have heated the journal area. In the end stuff a block through it to keep it from turning and put a 1/2 breaker bar on it then pull the handle off your floor jack(fits right over breaker bar) and giver he11. Stand back a catchers mitt would be nice. Best of luck.

Danbot · Jan 18, 2010

Thanks for all the replies. Maybe I shouldn't have been so hasty in giving it to the dealer to work on. Ill be calling them tomorrow to see what they have done if anything yet.

diamonddave · Jan 18, 2010

A quality 1/2" impact with a good amount of air would be used before I cut the clutch off.

High Velocity · Jan 18, 2010

It was good to meet you too, Dan. Thanks for the compliments on my sled as well. Glad I could help on the parts side at least. We'll meet up for sure for a Berland ride when we get more snow and keep in touch when you're heading to Vale or McBride.

Danbot · Jan 18, 2010

High Velocity said:
It was good to meet you too, Dan. Thanks for the compliments on my sled as well. Glad I could help on the parts side at least. We'll meet up for sure for a Berland ride when we get more snow and keep in touch when you're heading to Vale or McBride.

You bet Ken, hopefully sooner than later!

HUNDO · Jan 19, 2010

skibreeze said:
Are you sure that the puller isn't binding in the clutch it'self. The puller I have had a shaft that was too thick and after a few uses I could see where the annodizing was wearing off. I was always able to get clutches off, but it took some pounding and impact wrenches.

I had the same issue with a couple pullers I used...they bound up and bent at the tip

diamonddave said:
A quality 1/2" impact with a good amount of air would be used before I cut the clutch off.

I agree...a tire shop that services heavy trucks is your best bet. They will have the best quality impacts around.

Redd · Jan 19, 2010

I had the same problem, here's a post that I put up on "snofinatics site" before I found you guys here. "Fusion owners"

"Clutch is finally off!
DON'T USE AFTER MARKET PULLERS, THEY ARE JUNK!
I spilt 2 Sno Stuff pullers and one of my buddys is a "millwright"
and he made one on a leathe out of quality steel and hardened it,
twisted that too, and 1 knock off brand! For some reason all the stealerships around here
(atleast in the 200 mile radius) were out of them.
A buddy had a since 2004 and loaned it to me Pure Polaris tool.
Came off, I did come home from lunch today and spayed "P=B Blaster"
Behind the clutch mabe that helped too?*

I fought with it for 2 weeks, I found that a Ingrasol inpack worked, I tried craftsman at 125 psi's and no luck, get a good one! Grease the threads on the puller just alittle (make sure you get all grease out after) run it in and hit it with inpact AFTER you spray the "PB Blaster" behind the clutch and let set) then when I ran it in a racing buddy told me to tap it (the puller) side to side, as it does some "harmonic stuff" and that worked along with tappin, and the heat thing. I did it in these step and worked for me after 2 weeks!
1. Polaris puller threads greased. And a small dab on the tip so it won't gull on the crank.
2."PB Blaster" set for 6 hrs on back of clutch
3. Ran puller in slow w/inpact to snug up and put full preasure on it after seated.
4. Got a propane torch and heated sheathe at 12/3/6/and 9 o'clock for about 1 min. each
5.THEN tap the puller side to side.
6. THEN inpact and she came right off with no damage.
I clocked 900 miles on it since problem free and same belt 1115.
Good luck and from what I learned, it will come off, don't give up!
stay away from the "tanks!" tooooo much heat!
Oh, btw...spay some carb clean down behind the clutch when it's runnin with clutch on to make sure rpm's don't change from seal damage, becareful tho" watch yer fingers!
Good luck! don't let it kick yer ***, YOU are the BOSS!

resent:

Danbot · Jan 19, 2010

Well all this advice and different things to try coming in makes me want to go get my sled back from the dealer before they get started on it.
I do now have access to an oxy/acet torch, and a strong impact and air shouldn't be too hard to get ahold of for me.

Worst case scenerio for a primary that wont come off

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