Yeti - Farewell :(

[Chadx]

It's not always a straight questions of "was it making money". It's more a question of Return on Investment (ROI). Yeti might have netted a fair amount of profit, but the questions is always would the annual budgeted spend make more money if invested elsewhere within the parent company. And, like you suggested, economic outlook would be considered as well. If the parent ship has to cut the overall corporate spend in an effort to increase working capital, they will look to identify areas of the lowest annual ROI and those are the areas they will pull the plug. That is why I suggested a smaller company could take over Yeti and potentially earn a very reasonable return and be happy with that return. But we don't know the numbers. I'm hoping C3 or others are at least inquiring and due diligence reviews are in the works, which would give them access to the numbers. But again, tough time economically to take that on. Smartest business move might be get the agreement in place, but not immediately go into Yeti kit production and have Camso support parts for a year or two before starting kit production back up. The risk, of a break in production for a couple years, may be it being harder for them to regain market share, and trust, later.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

It's not always a straight questions of "was it making money". It's more a question of Return on Investment (ROI). Yeti might have netted a fair amount of profit, but the questions is always would the annual budgeted spend make more money if invested elsewhere within the parent company. And, like you suggested, economic outlook would be considered as well. If the parent ship has to cut the overall corporate spend in an effort to increase working capital, they will look to identify areas of the lowest annual ROI and those are the areas they will pull the plug. That is why I suggested a smaller company could take over Yeti and potentially earn a very reasonable return and be happy with that return. But we don't know the numbers. I'm hoping C3 or others are at least inquiring and due diligence reviews are in the works, which would give them access to the numbers. But again, tough time economically to take that on. Smartest business move might be get the agreement in place, but not immediately go into Yeti kit production and have Camso support parts for a year or two before starting kit production back up. The risk, of a break in production for a couple years, may be it being harder for them to regain market share, and trust, later.

Good points.

C3 “buying it back” doesn’t seem feasible.

 

[Chadx]

C3 “buying it back” doesn’t seem feasible.

Perhaps not likely, but certainly possible if the right conditions exist (willing seller, willing buyer, business model remains adequately profitable and the price is right). 100% of my dealings with C3 have been top notch, so I can dream they regain the reigns. In the meantime, don't rain on my parade, harsh my buzz, burst my bubble and break up the party. Ha.

 

[Sheer]

whos to say they were even making any profit - between material costs, marketing, r+d, wages among other stuff and probally a shrinking market segmant and overall market they may have been spread too thin.. i think to buy the patents back would be crazy for c3 they made there money when they could and got out.. (witch was smart) i have no idea how many kits yeti sold, but if you look at the numbers on how many camso sold it was pretty sad and no wonder they pulled the plug, it was like 3k units in 2 years in all of north America or something like that, and with the warrenty piling up theres no way they were making any money... after that camso/michelin were probally on the fence weather or not to continue with the snow bike kit thing all together..

 

[Chadx]

whos to say they were even making any profit - between material costs, marketing, r+d, wages among other stuff and probally a shrinking market segmant and overall market they may have been spread too thin.. i think to buy the patents back would be crazy for c3 they made there money when they could and got out.. (witch was smart) i have no idea how many kits yeti sold, but if you look at the numbers on how many camso sold it was pretty sad and no wonder they pulled the plug, it was like 3k units in 2 years in all of north America or something like that, and with the warrenty piling up theres no way they were making any money... after that camso/michelin were probally on the fence weather or not to continue with the snow bike kit thing all together..

You're right, we don't know because we don't have access to the Camso books so there's no way to be sure which is a shame. Not sure what you mean by "warranty piling up". Hasn't been any out-of-the-ordinary warranty expenses that I'm aware of.
If the 3,000 unit number is accurate and even if they netted only $500CAD on each unit (total guess that may more or less than reality, that is still $1.5million CAD. Again, not a huge number to a huge corporation, but reasonable net income for small corp. Doubt they were selling for a loss. They would just raise their prices (like all of the other snowbike manufacturers have done over the last couple years) to still net income. In my opinion, Yeti had room to increase kit MSRP a fair bit as there were several snowbike kit manufacturers that have MSRP much higher than the Yeti kits.

 

[Sheer]

The numbers were from the federal recall and amount of effected units- so in theory there exactlly how many they sold, and just about every one of those needed a side frame or 2 under warrenty, most needed a main frame, among a whole bunch of other things, (i owned one) and everyone i knew with one had the same issues.. do some searching around on here people were even building aftermarket frame kits for them they were so bad.. i think with the warrenty they were probally running at a loss... or very small profit... i dont know there finances but im sure somewhere someone was like this isnt worth it otherwise they'd still be making them.... its not very often a profitable buisness goes out of business...

 

[Sheer]

I just looked it up again it was 480 sold in 2017 and 2018...

 

[Chadx]

My $500CAD per unit guess was net profit, not gross profit, so would include materials, manufacturing, salaries and keeping the lights on. Just a guess, like I said, but if they were not netting a per-kit profit, they would/could have increased MSRP because there are kits on the market now with MSRP $500 - $1000 more than the Yeti FR kits and those are not make of carbon fiber, make use if titanium, etc.

To clarify, are you talking about Yeti kits or Camso DTS kits? This thread is about Yeti snowbikes; not Camso DTS. Those did have issues. No such thing as an aftermarket frame kits for a Yeti as they are a carbon fiber tunnel and there is no "frame". Warranty claims on Yeti kits have not been out of the ordinary from what I can gather. So it may be that you are referring to the old discontinuation of the Camso DTS rather than the recent Yeti snowbike discontinuation announcement.

 

[Sheer]

Yea i was referring to the camsos... your right the yetis didnt have any out of the ordinary warrenty claims

 

[Chadx]

Yea i was referring to the camsos... your right the yetis didnt have any out of the ordinary warrenty claims

10-4. That explains it. The Camso DTS 129 snowbike kit was a whole separate business within Camso. Camso DTS 129 went away shortly after Camso purchased Yeti from C3. I thought those "units sold" numbers seemed very low for Yeti kit sales numbers.

 

[CPan]

You’re delusional if you think they could only muster $500 profit per kit. I love the sport so I’m willing to pay, but the price of all these kits are ridiculous. 10 grand for something with 2 shocks, no motor, no electrical, etc..

 

[Sheer]

Yea they probably made more than 500 per kit but like you said fewer and fewer people are willing to pay that much money for a kit, my local dealer had a 2018 yeti kit on sale for cost that sat till 2021 till someone bucked up and spent the money on it.. they were great kits but $$$.

 

[Chadx]

When I bought my 2020 Yeti 129FR in 2019 (for 2019/2020 season), the Yeti cost was about the same as the other major kits on the market (A bit cheaper than CMX. About the same as a Timbersled 129 Aro, etc.). Looking at 2023 kit prices, Yeti was even cheaper than the other kits including, and especially, the new Mtn Pro. So in my mind, you were getting a kit built with unique and premium materials for the same price as the other kits. Yeti kits weren't for everyone as some prefer more playful kits (CMX, Timbersled Riot), but I preferred the ride of the Yeti FR for my style, terrain and snow type. Whether one likes a certain brand or prefers another, it's a shame to see one brand stop sales because there is then less competition to keep MSRPs in check and spur R&D/innovation.

 

[LoudHandle]

Old thread but the Yeti is back! C3 got it back and is currently doing R&D on upgrades they think will continue the improvement and innovation of the platform. It may take a bit to get the parts back to BC, but there is a new link button on C3's webpage for The Yeti and Yeti Parts.