Vail Pass Sled Skiing Advice

[97exc]

I've ridden my sleds around Vail Pass a few times but not super familiar with the area and the rules. We are looking to do some runs on skis/snowboad while also getting in a good time on the sleds. Can anyone give some advice on the proper procedures for this at VP? Since there are non-motorized areas, how does the shuttling all work out? Need to know where to tow-in and pick up, etc

Basically need an Idiot's guide to this, as we have not done it before and need as much info and step by step as possible. Note that we are starting to gather info so we can be as informed as possible (from many sources so pass along any other helpful references, websites, etc.)

 

[AndrettiDog]

I'll be straight forward and honest with you. This is a snowmobile site. Many are very pissed off that we lose terrain so that more people can ski/board in the back country. Just saying...

 

[rhalloran]

Sled skiing at Vail Pass is super easy. First, get a map - it shows the hybrid use areas, which keep sleds and cats on the established routes.

http://www.dillonrangerdistrict.com/vail_pass_win_rec_area.pdf

Most of the skiing is off Ptarmigan/on that side. There are five main areas:

Machine Gun Ridge
Queen Bee
Boss Basin
Cupcakes
Tele/Wilder Gulch

There's lots, lots more, but those five should keep you very busy; our first season, we pretty much stayed at mgr.

You'll find that the repeat offender groups have their own names for stuff. We call Ptarmigan pass "the fences," as an example.

Queen Bee is really good for mellow powder skiing, and a super short commute. Same with boss basin, but boss is benchy - too far skiers right, snowboarders get marooned. Not bad on skis.

Cupcakes - we call the whole north facing aspect of ptarm "cupcakes," - is arguably the best skiing. Long run, fun terrain, but the commute is often HORRIBLE. Long and gets bumpy.

<opinion>

Be nice to the catop. They make it REALLY easy for us to ski. This goes for Buff Pass, too. The Vail Powder Guides are really cool people, we're all out doing the same thing. We get along great with them.

If you abandon a sled at a drop, move it way out of the way. Same at picks. In queen bee/boss, the cat makes a loop at the pick. Dump your sled in the middle of the loop, not the middle of the road.

I leave my key in the sled just in case they need to move it. They know how, they're respectful.

As a rule, VPG skis single fall line stuff with minimal obstacles and traversing. We try to not ruin the "postcard snow" for them. Heck, the skiing between their runs is often better.

If they're loading or unloading, we stop and get out of phase with them.

If you're coming up behind the cat, hang back, they'll move over and let you by. Getting out of phase with them is good for this reason - we're WAY faster than them.

If you start with Queen Bee and Boss Basin, figure out where the top and bottom are, go from there - you'll get a lot of good quality skiing (once it snows again). Follow the sun, a lot of the time. Be careful in "cupcakes," aka Avalanche Bowl, it is named for a reason.

Skiing @ VP is really pretty good; PM me if you know when you'll be there, I can point things out for you.

 

[rhalloran]

I'll be straight forward and honest with you. This is a snowmobile site. Many are very pissed off that we lose terrain so that more people can ski/board in the back country. Just saying...

This thread could be moved to the "Sled Access, Skiing & Boarding" subforum of this snowmobile site, I suppose.

BRP/SkiDoo teamed up with Burton this year.

BRP is making ski racks for sleds now.

"Many of you" need to get used to the idea that this segment is growing FAR faster than "pure" snowmobilers & the juvenile sniping in reasonable threads is BS, even if the thread is in the wrong forum on the site - although Vail Pass is in "Colorado," so not sure how wrong it really is.

Your comments were appropriate in my other thread. Here, some crackpot anti-skier agenda is horsefeces. The guy wants info. I'm happy to give it to him. Creating a rift between subgroups of snowmobilers does absolutely nothing to benefit YOUR cause - "we, the Skiers" will likely outnumber you before long, ESPECIALLY in the mountain segment, at least til the fad wears off.

Tiring.

 

[Drewd]

I agree, need to quit the stupid infighting and focus on more pertinent divisive issues such as: Prius drivers with O'bummer bumper sticker on I-70 <---those should be banned imo.

 

[AndrettiDog]

This thread could be moved to the "Sled Access, Skiing & Boarding" subforum of this snowmobile site, I suppose.

BRP/SkiDoo teamed up with Burton this year.

BRP is making ski racks for sleds now.

"Many of you" need to get used to the idea that this segment is growing FAR faster than "pure" snowmobilers & the juvenile sniping in reasonable threads is BS, even if the thread is in the wrong forum on the site - although Vail Pass is in "Colorado," so not sure how wrong it really is.

Your comments were appropriate in my other thread. Here, some crackpot anti-skier agenda is horsefeces. The guy wants info. I'm happy to give it to him. Creating a rift between subgroups of snowmobilers does absolutely nothing to benefit YOUR cause - "we, the Skiers" will likely outnumber you before long, ESPECIALLY in the mountain segment, at least til the fad wears off.

Tiring.

My comments come mostly from you. We have gone round and round. I spend a lot of time fighting snowmobile closures only to see more of them in places like VP, for the skier group. I grew up skiing in Colorado, so I don't have a hatred for skiers but instead for a movement that is trying to kill the snowmobiling sport. I'm neck deep in it so I have a good grasp on the happenings.

Besides, I was just letting him know that most of the people here are snowmobilers and many have been very aggregated at the skier movement killing our sport. I won't apologize to you or anyone else here. I grew up just around the corner and have spent 40 years in the area seeing more and more people come in here and decide for me how the "public" terrain should be used. You still want to have that beer? I'm always up for it, but expect that I keep it very real.

 

[rhalloran]

Are you aware that VPG opted NOT to pursue a hybrid closure of Dale's?

Beer - yes, anytime.

My point is simple - the "skier movement" is not going away anytime soon, and drawing a line in the sand between the two groups of SNOWMOBILERS is not beneficial. There are plenty of sled-skiers who need to understand the bigger picture - myself being one of them, it seems - but not many people are going to devote the time to try to understand "your" side of it as I will. Many sled skiers buy a sled and go skiing and that's that.

Most sled skiers are going to pursue their agenda, and if push comes to shove, they're going to protect what THEY want - just like you're trying to protect what YOU want.

Thing is, if you pick a fight, you're likely to lose. "The greenies" will likely look at concessions that favor "hybrid use" as a concession that favors "snowmobilers."

Why?

Because they see sled skiers and snowmobilers in the same motorized light. Plain and simple.

J'ai finis in this thread, sorry, OP.

 

[AndrettiDog]

Thing is, if you pick a fight, you're likely to lose. "The greenies" will likely look at concessions that favor "hybrid use" as a concession that favors "snowmobilers."

There is my issue. You see...I'm not picking a fight, I'm standing up for myself and a concept that we all get to play in the back country. Too many people are not doing the same. I stand up against groups that have millions of dollars in donations to close down the back country to motorized users (including our very own Congressman Polis).

 

[97exc]

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. Rhalloran, I might PM you when our plans are finalized.

I put this thread in the 'Colorado' subforum because the question regarded Vail Pass and people are more active and more specifically knowledgeable about the area here than in the Sled Skiing forum, which is not localized and seems to deal more with general questions.

Also, I understand snowmobilers may be at odds with skiers over certain issues. I think that is why having proper information for those who want to use VP for both activities is important, that way everyone is using it responsibly. If I or someone else went up there with sleds, uneducated, and ruined some skier's day, that could have negative reprecussions. Knowledge is power in this case.

 

[Vailguy]

Be helpful to snowmoboarders and skiers. Want to save the sport? Operate with integrity.

I boarded for 20+ years, rode internationally and got paid to do so. back in the early 80's snowboarders were a hated group of enthusiasts, only allowed by a handful of resorts in Colorado. We were different and misunderstood. We almost lost our sport, due to our youthful egos, but in turn saved a dying industry with new blood and parabolic designs that skiers embraced.

Same is happening with sledding right now. Over the last 15 years we have developed the technology and horsepower to ride the hills, that is going to impact others. It is up to us to play nice, regardless of what the enviros do. In turn it could save the sport and open more areas.

10 years ago, I bought my first snowmobile. With the sole intention of backcountry snowboarding at Vailpass. After getting my feet wet, learning how to ride, an getting better and better machines. Now, the board stays home, and Vailpass is the last place I want to go. Help those who can help you and the sport!

 

[Nychaze]

Be helpful to snowmoboarders and skiers. Want to save the sport? Operate with integrity.

10 years ago, I bought my first snowmobile. With the sole intention of backcountry snowboarding at Vailpass. After getting my feet wet, learning how to ride, an getting better and better machines. Now, the board stays home, and Vailpass is the last place I want to go. Help those who can help you and the sport!

x2 and I have heard the same story from others...