Test your Air Bags...Glad we did

[Snowbird11]

Last season we had a patroller caught in a slide above a large cliff. He pulled his ABS bag and the trigger extended without firing. Luckily he was hung up on a stand of trees and most of the snow went off the cliff. That was a hit to our confidence in the bag. This was most likely a chemical failure to ignite or possibly no powder to ignite. We will never know because ABS took it back to europe and has not given us or our rep any answers.

This season we were testing our bags and had a handle that would not deploy no matter how hard you pulled. The stem would not extend at all, so likely a mechanical failure. This one went in the rep's pocket and we likely won't hear of it again either. At that time a new handle was put on and the bag fired as intended.

So, remember to check your bags.

FWIW, Both of these failures were from handles that would expire by the end of the 2016 winter.

 

[giddyup]

that is scary to hear, a would expect a response from the bag maker about the problem or what was the problem for the bag not inflating i have never heard of a bag not fireing please keep use updated
giddyup

 

[Norona]

Yes definitely keep up posted and I will check into this for sure! I have never had that happen or heard of it happening so this is concerning. I have blown off over 600 abs units and never had an issue, but even one is something that needs to be looked into.

 

[Snowbird11]

We test our fleet of 60 yearly. These two are the only abs failures I've dealt with. There have been other manufacturers bags that failed to fully deploy during our testing. Those were most likely due to improper filling and improper packaging. Not enough air to initiate venturi function and or blockage of the venturi valve.

 

[BC_mtn_rider]

My ABS 15escape is going to the Canadian head office tmrw for the recall. Luckily its only 20mins from my house in Langley. Maybe ill get a new one!!!

 

[sledsrock]

Last season we had a patroller caught in a slide above a large cliff. He pulled his ABS bag and the trigger extended without firing. Luckily he was hung up on a stand of trees and most of the snow went off the cliff. That was a hit to our confidence in the bag. This was most likely a chemical failure to ignite or possibly no powder to ignite. We will never know because ABS took it back to europe and has not given us or our rep any answers.

This season we were testing our bags and had a handle that would not deploy no matter how hard you pulled. The stem would not extend at all, so likely a mechanical failure. This one went in the rep's pocket and we likely won't hear of it again either. At that time a new handle was put on and the bag fired as intended.
So, remember to check your bags.

FWIW, Both of these failures were from handles that would expire by the end of the 2016 winter.

So how do you now know the new handle installed will fire?? Kinda like any pyrotechnic device - you really never know if the one loaded will work.

 

[RPS957]

So how do you now know the new handle installed will fire?? Kinda like any pyrotechnic device - you really never know if the one loaded will work.

You don't. You can't test an ABS bag to make sure the handle fires. It's one and done. So I'm not sure the point of the thread. I fully understand making sure it deploys assuring everything else is right, but there's no TESTING the handle/firing mechanism.

 

[sledsrock]

You don't. You can't test an ABS bag to make sure the handle fires. It's one and done. So I'm not sure the point of the thread. I fully understand making sure it deploys assuring everything else is right, but there's no TESTING the handle/firing mechanism.

To me that is a downfall.

 

[Norona]

I am not sure what the issue was here with these handles failing. I have blown off over 600 abs bags and never had one issue, like anything things can fail so i am not suggesting they did not, but anything can fail, it is why we encourage people to test fire their bag once a season or more, it makes sure your stuff is up to date as well as refreshes you on the gear and how to use it most effectively. All safety gear is easy to just throw in your pack or put on but the magic comes from knowing it intimately and being able t use it without thinking....

 

[Vertical-Extreme]

this is one of the reasons I have moved away from ABS and to BCA. in my opinion the ABS duel bags are better, but I much prefer the cable trigger to the "firing trigger" . that and when my brother test fired his abs last year the Velcro never broke open and it tore his bag to s*&t

 

[sledsrock]

I am not sure what the issue was here with these handles failing. I have blown off over 600 abs bags and never had one issue, like anything things can fail so i am not suggesting they did not, but anything can fail, it is why we encourage people to test fire their bag once a season or more, it makes sure your stuff is up to date as well as refreshes you on the gear and how to use it most effectively. All safety gear is easy to just throw in your pack or put on but the magic comes from knowing it intimately and being able t use it without thinking....

600 bags or 6000 bags, I only care about the 1 bag on my back. I'm not willing to take that chance, I went with BCA for the cable as well as the throttle 22 being the lightest on the market of that size.

 

[Norona]

600 bags or 6000 bags, I only care about the 1 bag on my back. I'm not willing to take that chance, I went with BCA for the cable as well as the throttle 22 being the lightest on the market of that size.

There has been a number of people who have pulled that cable to nothing as well. I know of many, abs stopped using a cable in 1994-95 for that reason, they stretch, rust and can break, there is also more mechanical issues as you are not strong enough to pull a cable to the bottle , so there is a mechanical device to do that...I love BCA products and use everything from them, but to suggest there has been no issues is a bit naive, especially when they have been well documented...all products can fail and I agree, you don't want to have one ever, personally buying the one you trust the most is all that is important but none of them have been fail proof, just saw the first battery failure with a black diamond jet force to.

 

[RobertTrivanovic]

Also to all BCA owner check your canisters, many go empty over a long period of sitting (summer) mine along with almost all of the ones at my work went empty over the summer, but the odd one here or there did not.

 

[sledsrock]

Also to all BCA owner check your canisters, many go empty over a long period of sitting (summer) mine along with almost all of the ones at my work went empty over the summer, but the odd one here or there did not.

That's a nice benefit to having a pressure gauge.

 

[sledsrock]

There has been a number of people who have pulled that cable to nothing as well. I know of many, abs stopped using a cable in 1994-95 for that reason, they stretch, rust and can break, there is also more mechanical issues as you are not strong enough to pull a cable to the bottle , so there is a mechanical device to do that...I love BCA products and use everything from them, but to suggest there has been no issues is a bit naive, especially when they have been well documented...all products can fail and I agree, you don't want to have one ever, personally buying the one you trust the most is all that is important but none of them have been fail proof, just saw the first battery failure with a black diamond jet force to.

Hmmmm.....where did I state there has been no issues? I never once made that claim. You are missing my point - BCA has some nice features, features that I looked for in a bag. Pressure Gauge / mechanical cable / weight/ ease of refill. Trust me, I looked at all the bags when I bought 2 years ago, could have purchased any of them, cost was not the factor. A quick visual of the gauge give me peace of mind of bottle pressure. A simple check of the cable assy. every few rides gives me peace of mind of cable function. If I see it starting to corrode, I can replace it. The BCA allows me to refill my own with dry nitrogen.

ABS has 2 undeniable unknowns - unknowns until you fire it it!

1. No pressure gauge, sure you could weigh the bottle, but that requires a pretty accurate scale and you must know the fresh charge weight to be able to compare. Not practical to most.
2. Pyrotechnic trigger - Hmmmm......will THIS trigger fire? That is the question.

 

[Norona]

Hmmmm.....where did I state there has been no issues? I never once made that claim. You are missing my point - BCA has some nice features, features that I looked for in a bag. Pressure Gauge / mechanical cable / weight/ ease of refill. Trust me, I looked at all the bags when I bought 2 years ago, could have purchased any of them, cost was not the factor. A quick visual of the gauge give me peace of mind of bottle pressure. A simple check of the cable assy. every few rides gives me peace of mind of cable function. If I see it starting to corrode, I can replace it. The BCA allows me to refill my own with dry nitrogen.

ABS has 2 undeniable unknowns - unknowns until you fire it it!

1. No pressure gauge, sure you could weigh the bottle, but that requires a pretty accurate scale and you must know the fresh charge weight to be able to compare. Not practical to most.
2. Pyrotechnic trigger - Hmmmm......will THIS trigger fire? That is the question.

The weight is on the bottle, never have seen one leak as we fill all of them in langley BC for all of North America, and hold them for 72 hours before they leave to be redistributed. And just so you know you don't need a high tech scale to measure it, your trusting a 2 dollar gauge to let you know if your bottle is full or not, one of my biggest issues is those cheap gauges. Would you scuba dive with that gauge? Not trying to argue with you but with any piece of gear you have to have faith in your gear at some point. I understand if you don't trust the pyrotechnic charge with abs and that is fine but you are laying your trust in other parts that have proven to fail as well. Many people believe it is more of a hassle to replace the abs canister but if a shop does bca, snow pulse and abs, the abs is the fastest as you just drop off your used handle and bottle and they give you a refilled one, with the other two systems it takes 20-25 minutes to do them properly. Another thing most companies do not tell you, but people should have a spare canister or canister and handle in abs's case, as if you accidentally blow off the pack in the parking lot, you are not going back to the shop to get it refilled or replaced, your going riding. having an extra bottle allows you to reload right there and go, same is true if you live in a remote area or are on a back country trip spanning several days...in this case the abs is the easiest to reset as there are no o-rings that need replacing, you just fold the bags and screw in a new canister and handle and your done. Actually the simplest system. Like I sad BCA makes awesome products, I work with them on everything except their airbags, which are also great but you are trusting systems, that are no different than trusting the abs system.

 

[sledsrock]

The weight is on the bottle, never have seen one leak as we fill all of them in langley BC for all of North America, and hold them for 72 hours before they leave to be redistributed. And just so you know you don't need a high tech scale to measure it, your trusting a 2 dollar gauge to let you know if your bottle is full or not, one of my biggest issues is those cheap gauges. Would you scuba dive with that gauge? Not trying to argue with you but with any piece of gear you have to have faith in your gear at some point. I understand if you don't trust the pyrotechnic charge with abs and that is fine but you are laying your trust in other parts that have proven to fail as well. Many people believe it is more of a hassle to replace the abs canister but if a shop does bca, snow pulse and abs, the abs is the fastest as you just drop off your used handle and bottle and they give you a refilled one, with the other two systems it takes 20-25 minutes to do them properly. Another thing most companies do not tell you, but people should have a spare canister or canister and handle in abs's case, as if you accidentally blow off the pack in the parking lot, you are not going back to the shop to get it refilled or replaced, your going riding. having an extra bottle allows you to reload right there and go, same is true if you live in a remote area or are on a back country trip spanning several days...in this case the abs is the easiest to reset as there are no o-rings that need replacing, you just fold the bags and screw in a new canister and handle and your done. Actually the simplest system. Like I sad BCA makes awesome products, I work with them on everything except their airbags, which are also great but you are trusting systems, that are no different than trusting the abs system.

Good discussion, no arguement here! You make some valid points as well. We may not agree and that's okay, I'm sure we both agree to at least have a bag, any bag, know and understand your equipment!

 

[1000-oaks]

I never liked the folding instructions for the WARY system in my MR pack, they say to fold the bag column over and over starting at the end. That creates a ton of internal friction when first pressurized, and I didn't trust it would always burst the zipper since the air could just vent backwards out of the venturi.

Seems a lot more logical to fold the column like an accordion (folds alternating direction), so there's no way it could be bound up. If anything, the bag could come out of the pack with too much force, lol.

 

[summitboy]

BCA was the worst bag when it came out. Numerous bags didn't fire. You got what you paid for. They fixed them eventually. All the bags are mechanical and are prone to issues etc. I had one of the first ABS bags in the early 2000's. Not many had seen them. I pulled the trigger and nothing happened LOL. They also had issues at the beginning. Wise idea to test fire them every year or two. Just don't got to Skidoo to buy the trigger and canister. $150 vs $40 ! Rip Off !

If you rely on a bag to save you in a avalanche then u may want to take another round of AST1 and 2.

 

[Norona]

BCA was the worst bag when it came out. Numerous bags didn't fire. You got what you paid for. They fixed them eventually. All the bags are mechanical and are prone to issues etc. I had one of the first ABS bags in the early 2000's. Not many had seen them. I pulled the trigger and nothing happened LOL. They also had issues at the beginning. Wise idea to test fire them every year or two. Just don't got to Skidoo to buy the trigger and canister. $150 vs $40 ! Rip Off !

If you rely on a bag to save you in a avalanche then u may want to take another round of AST1 and 2.

If you paid 150.00 that is a good deal for a new canister and handle. Bringing in one that has been fired, is always $40.00 on an exchange. Getting a new one or extra one is between 150.00 - 200.00