So Arctic Cat your telling me.....

[Needspeed]

Does anyone have a picture of the spring cup ground down? How far do you grind? I have a new spring on the way and would like to grind the cup while I have the primary apart, I too noticed the paint chipping off on th sides.

 

[Sparx]

I have to agree that my stock primary spring was binding really bad and this is one reason the SLP spring works so good for me. I tried and switched back to my stock titanium/yellow spring when having RPM issues(stuck EV servo), and had a real hard time to get it to sit in the primary cover completely as well as the spider cup. I did notice abnormal wear on the inside of the spring windings as well. Upon startup I realized it might take a bit for the spring to "seat" fully in both cups.

My sled revved up to 4500RPMs before engaging initially and really wasn't consistant either. Wasn't happy but tried it out anyhow. Noticed my primary heat was quite a bit hotter and engagement never fell below 3750 the whole days ride. Never cooked a belt, but the snow wasn't deep either. Really didn't like how high it engaged compared to the SLP so switched it back after the days ride.

Black/Yellow SLP primary spring is shorter but stiffer rate. Easier to install sits right in both cups with no binding at all and alot easier to get the bolts in the primary cover back on. Right off the get go I noticed RPMS steady engagement all the time around 3650RPM. Way less primary clutch heat, gets on top of the deep better and rode a day and a half in 3ft of pow burrying it over the headlights constantly on downhill carves and pulls so hard uphill I had to turn out and sidehill WOT for 30-45 sec long pulls back to back. Never blew a belt, clutches got warm to hot but never hot enough to burn the tips of your fingers on first touch. Even got stuck a few times after hanging up in creeks and trees with no clutching issues. Sure makes a difference going back and forth to that spring and I don't want nothing to do with the stock primary spring ever again. Should never have been on that sled, doesn't fit right or work for the application of the sled whatsoever. Basically I consider that spring a flatlander spring for drag racing the way it engages so suddenly and aggressively compared to the black/yellow SLP.

My backshifting isn't what I'd like, so I am looking to a torsional conversion on the secondary. Other than that my clutching is pretty darn good for the stock gearing, can only get cooler with the M8 gearing I figure and better engine braking with the torsional. I am running the 046 belt as well and sure flog the crap outta my sled everywhere from 800-8500ft in elevation. Either flapper closed or WOT, not much in between and always 1+ft of powder or I'm not riding.... As mentioned, this is a mountain sled, and that's all it gets used for, deep snow or hard climbs.... Good luck.

 

[BigRed118]

I had issues with my M8 clutching. It was not eating belts but it was not what I thought it should be either. I switched to the Black/Red primary spring from SLP and I am much happier. I noticed that my yellow/white AC spring was missing a lot of paint when I removed it. Maybe there is something to this.

Quick, give Chad at Amp products a call. He helped out a guy that I know that was having a tough time with a nightfire. This year he hasn't had nearly the problems.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

I like the sleds and am not here to b1tch just learn and hope someday I'll have take the job of that 80 year old thats doing the clutching.
my sled stock worked great with the 060 got a little soft from heat but over all I was impressed, then I modded it
the 07 pulled that track speed around 6500 ft in WA powder when I finally made it to cooke I scuffed both pistons and never got it running right. the reason I got rid of it is it had an expiration date in one ride I scuffed and ruined to pistons and jugs, servo motor quit, split my 4 post spider, and the exhaust sensor went out. I had to run the bd box in the 60's at 3000rpm to get enough gas in the cylinder to create compression 40's at 5000, 20's at 6500 then it would take off until I slowed down and the locked up clutch would bog it down again. that speaks for the 07.
If I let my sled cool completely with the 060 on and pin it it immediately bogs raps up and bogs down, its not from the heat. I round tripped one 060 to see if it would blow hammered the p1ss out of it, the sled slowed a bit but was still responding. I have also tried to blow the 060 on the trail and can't do it. So far I have never gernaded a 060, did it to 3 46's. I can feel the power of the 060 its just a matter of getting the clutches to work together and decrease over load. with the 60 on when the rpms spike the track speed does to, but if you listen to how every one talks about how good the backshift is on the 09 sleds it tells me mine is trying to backshift instead of hold the rpm. I could care less how slow I go. the stiffer primary spring helped but not enough, still seems like by adding stiffer primary springs I am just trying to hold the power back, not what i am looking for. I'll be back in WA soon so I'm just going to waste another $80 on the 46 then I'll screw with it out there.

 

[mrquick68]

I have to agree that my stock primary spring was binding really bad and this is one reason the SLP spring works so good for me. I tried and switched back to my stock titanium/yellow spring when having RPM issues(stuck EV servo), and had a real hard time to get it to sit in the primary cover completely as well as the spider cup. I did notice abnormal wear on the inside of the spring windings as well. Upon startup I realized it might take a bit for the spring to "seat" fully in both cups.

My sled revved up to 4500RPMs before engaging initially and really wasn't consistant either. Wasn't happy but tried it out anyhow. Noticed my primary heat was quite a bit hotter and engagement never fell below 3750 the whole days ride. Never cooked a belt, but the snow wasn't deep either. Really didn't like how high it engaged compared to the SLP so switched it back after the days ride.

Black/Yellow SLP primary spring is shorter but stiffer rate. Easier to install sits right in both cups with no binding at all and alot easier to get the bolts in the primary cover back on. Right off the get go I noticed RPMS steady engagement all the time around 3650RPM. Way less primary clutch heat, gets on top of the deep better and rode a day and a half in 3ft of pow burrying it over the headlights constantly on downhill carves and pulls so hard uphill I had to turn out and sidehill WOT for 30-45 sec long pulls back to back. Never blew a belt, clutches got warm to hot but never hot enough to burn the tips of your fingers on first touch. Even got stuck a few times after hanging up in creeks and trees with no clutching issues. Sure makes a difference going back and forth to that spring and I don't want nothing to do with the stock primary spring ever again. Should never have been on that sled, doesn't fit right or work for the application of the sled whatsoever. Basically I consider that spring a flatlander spring for drag racing the way it engages so suddenly and aggressively compared to the black/yellow SLP.

My backshifting isn't what I'd like, so I am looking to a torsional conversion on the secondary. Other than that my clutching is pretty darn good for the stock gearing, can only get cooler with the M8 gearing I figure and better engine braking with the torsional. I am running the 046 belt as well and sure flog the crap outta my sled everywhere from 800-8500ft in elevation. Either flapper closed or WOT, not much in between and always 1+ft of powder or I'm not riding.... As mentioned, this is a mountain sled, and that's all it gets used for, deep snow or hard climbs.... Good luck.

this is actually a softer spring than the stock ylw/wht as SLP measures their spring differently than Cat does. For comparison sake, the blue/ylw is the same weights as a cat ylw/wht - except that the SLP springs are a bit smaller in diameter so they don't hang up as much.

For chit's and giggles i'll be trying the SLP blue/ylw and blue/pink this weekend. Should be fun.

 

[Killerk]

Do you guys think it has anything to do with snow density?
When I initially blew my 060 with low miles it was warm and very heavy snow.
I have not experienced the same snow conditions other than riding with no hood, which should reduce a lot of clutch heat.
Most of the snow here is very dry, fluffy pow.
I don't think I am ready to swap parts with others, at least long term.
I would be willing to swap for a day, and bust out the calipers and calibrated eye to see if we could find any differences between sleds with problems, and sleds that don't seem to have problems.
I don't see how some of us could have drastically different riding styles, but anything is possible.
I tend to create a lot more clutch heat with my 046 the more I put around or baby the sled.
I live in northern utah and would be willing to meet up and help if possible.

 

[mrquick68]

Do you guys think it has anything to do with snow density?
When I initially blew my 060 with low miles it was warm and very heavy snow.
I have not experienced the same snow conditions other than riding with no hood, which should reduce a lot of clutch heat.
Most of the snow here is very dry, fluffy pow.
I don't think I am ready to swap parts with others, at least long term.
I would be willing to swap for a day, and bust out the calipers and calibrated eye to see if we could find any differences between sleds with problems, and sleds that don't seem to have problems.
I don't see how some of us could have drastically different riding styles, but anything is possible.
I tend to create a lot more clutch heat with my 046 the more I put around or baby the sled.
I live in northern utah and would be willing to meet up and help if possible.

thanks for the offer - i'd take you up on it, but i live in Seattle.

I'd say that you are on to something with the snow type BUT i know of number of people in UT that have the problem just as bad as i do...

if you are near your sled right now, i'm curious what you get for a measurement from your motor plate to the outstide edge of your secondary. Mine is almost exactly 3.5". Anyone want to post what they have???

 

[catunder]

Measurement

thanks for the offer - i'd take you up on it, but i live in Seattle.

I'd say that you are on to something with the snow type BUT i know of number of people in UT that have the problem just as bad as i do...

if you are near your sled right now, i'm curious what you get for a measurement from your motor plate to the outstide edge of your secondary. Mine is almost exactly 3.5". Anyone want to post what they have???

Measuring from the outside of the motor mount plate to the outside of my secondary sheave I get just a fraction over 3 1/4". From the inside edge of the motor mount plate to the outside of the secondary sheave I get 3 5/8". I did shim the engine which moved the mount plate also over .120". Taking the .120" out of the equation my measurements would be a little over 3 1/8" from outside of the plate and 3 1/2 " hooking the tape to the inside of the plate to the outside of the secondary. Basically shimmed the motor over 1/8" so I could properly align the secondary and now I had the room to run a thin spacer/shim (.030?) which keeps my secondary from rubbing on the Diamond Drive. Hope this is explained clearly enough as to not cause any confusion in my measurements.

 

[catunder]

Measurement

thanks for the offer - i'd take you up on it, but i live in Seattle.

I'd say that you are on to something with the snow type BUT i know of number of people in UT that have the problem just as bad as i do...

if you are near your sled right now, i'm curious what you get for a measurement from your motor plate to the outstide edge of your secondary. Mine is almost exactly 3.5". Anyone want to post what they have???

Measuring from the outside of the motor mount plate to the outside of my secondary sheave I get just a fraction over 3 1/4". From the inside edge of the motor mount plate to the outside of the secondary sheave I get 3 5/8". I did shim the engine which moved the mount plate also over .120". Taking the .120" out of the equation my measurements would be a little over 3 1/8" from outside of the plate and 3 1/2 " hooking the tape to the inside of the plate to the outside of the secondary. Basically shimmed the motor over 1/8" so I could properly align the secondary and now I had the room to run a thin spacer/shim (.030?) which keeps my secondary from rubbing on the Diamond Drive. Hope this is explained clearly enough as to not cause any confusion in my measurements.

Let me explain this a little easier. Taking out the secondary shim from the Diamond Drive and the shims on the motor mount plates my measurement would be basically 3 1/3" from the outside of the motor mount plate to the outside of the secondary. That tells me that your clutches may not be aligned close at all as mine were somewhat close but now mine appears pretty much right on. When i run it up on the track stand the belt runs much straighter than before. I just did this last night and have not been able to run it on the snow yet to see if the belt wear and EXPLOSIONS go away or decrease.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

How about a measurement from center of primary to center of secondary,distance between the two clutches.

 

[jeffro]

When I posted about swapping parts it was meant for testing purposes only. Not for permanent- I'm sure nobody would sign up for that.

I feel there is MUCH info to be gained from swapping parts between 2 similar equipped sleds- 1 of which has the problem & the other does not.

I'm basically starting over from square-one when I finally get my sled back, so I'm not a good candidate for this right now. Maybe next season if nobody's found the problem yet, but I certainly hope IT'S RESOLVED before then!

-Jeff

 

[mrquick68]

Don't worry guys, i'm spending my hard earned money chasing this problem even though i have a warranty. I'm so pissed at CAT for not even acknowledging the issue that I'm seeing yellow (doo) right now. Do to the economic climate though - i won't be giving my hard earned money to any brand this spring... I find it dishonest and disheartening that a good American company like AC would treat their loyal customers in manner as to not even offer help with what THEY know is an issue.

 

[catunder]

How about a measurement from center of primary to center of secondary,distance between the two clutches.

I will post that on Friday for you.

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

Keep hammering guys

Its a cat problem and they have their heads in the sand. And not the first time, they sold some 04 /05 KKats with screwed up buildheads and those sleds ate belts like a meatgrinder with a turbo. Two many instances of familes and couples buying multiple 1000, one sled works the other is belt eater. I listened to a nice young gal try and explain to a cat dealer why cat should warranty her handful of shredded belts on their M1000 that eats belts when their other m1000 has over 2000 miles on the same belt, and this was getting rev'd up. Very sad. Dealer has taken a couple of 1 hour posthots at this problem, sent them home with a new belt and then blow them off, and no help to him from cat.

40 years of dicking with this stuff tells me its in the chassis. I think you guys have proven all the clutch parts won't help. So whats the difference between the 6/7/8 chassis and the 1000's? Motor mounts ? Engine off set? What fxzk up in mfg'n when they drop this motor in is different , and screwing with the belt. Do we have a bunch of bad bulheads out there with parts missing or bad welds or gussets missing? Motor mounts in backwards?
Really need to find a good one and a bad one and tear them down side by side. I don't have a 1000 or I'd help. Anybody in the Missoula are got a problem with this give me a call, we might be able to find a solution.

Mike 406 728 1020

 

[favoritos]

Are any of you guys with the belt grinders getting vibration at speed?

I feel it pretty good in the footwells when I really build some speed. Driveshaft is fine. I almost wonder if the vibration on mine is making the clutches move around and stretching the belt. This vibration feels just like the belt is going but I've checked the belt many times and it is still fine. Later in the trip on a nice pull it goes kaboom. Clutches all check out as being normal and in alignment.

I now have a new set of servo cables, dented footwell and bent belt cover. Everything under the hood has been re-cleaned of belt debris a few times now. I never know when the thing is going to blow and what it will wreck.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Its a cat problem and they have their heads in the sand. And not the first time, they sold some 04 /05 KKats with screwed up buildheads and those sleds ate belts like a meatgrinder with a turbo. Two many instances of familes and couples buying multiple 1000, one sled works the other is belt eater. I listened to a nice young gal try and explain to a cat dealer why cat should warranty her handful of shredded belts on their M1000 that eats belts when their other m1000 has over 2000 miles on the same belt, and this was getting rev'd up. Very sad. Dealer has taken a couple of 1 hour posthots at this problem, sent them home with a new belt and then blow them off, and no help to him from cat.

40 years of dicking with this stuff tells me its in the chassis. I think you guys have proven all the clutch parts won't help. So whats the difference between the 6/7/8 chassis and the 1000's? Motor mounts ? Engine off set? What fxzk up in mfg'n when they drop this motor in is different , and screwing with the belt. Do we have a bunch of bad bulheads out there with parts missing or bad welds or gussets missing? Motor mounts in backwards?
Really need to find a good one and a bad one and tear them down side by side. I don't have a 1000 or I'd help. Anybody in the Missoula are got a problem with this give me a call, we might be able to find a solution.

Mike 406 728 1020

one of the reasons why I want to know the distance from center to center,

046 vibrates, 060 doesn't and have heard this from 5 diff. people with 09 m1000 162's

 

[BigRed118]

Its a cat problem and they have their heads in the sand. And not the first time, they sold some 04 /05 KKats with screwed up buildheads and those sleds ate belts like a meatgrinder with a turbo. Two many instances of familes and couples buying multiple 1000, one sled works the other is belt eater. I listened to a nice young gal try and explain to a cat dealer why cat should warranty her handful of shredded belts on their M1000 that eats belts when their other m1000 has over 2000 miles on the same belt, and this was getting rev'd up. Very sad. Dealer has taken a couple of 1 hour posthots at this problem, sent them home with a new belt and then blow them off, and no help to him from cat.

40 years of dicking with this stuff tells me its in the chassis. I think you guys have proven all the clutch parts won't help. So whats the difference between the 6/7/8 chassis and the 1000's? Motor mounts ? Engine off set? What fxzk up in mfg'n when they drop this motor in is different , and screwing with the belt. Do we have a bunch of bad bulheads out there with parts missing or bad welds or gussets missing? Motor mounts in backwards?
Really need to find a good one and a bad one and tear them down side by side. I don't have a 1000 or I'd help. Anybody in the Missoula are got a problem with this give me a call, we might be able to find a solution.

Mike 406 728 1020

Wouldn't that be interesting? I would think measuring from the primary clutch would not help because of the tapered shaft and the clutches not qoing on the same distance. Going down this road, would the removable brace behind the clutches have anything to do with it? If the holes were drilled incorrectly would that squeeze or spread that side of the bulkhead?

 

[favoritos]

one of the reasons why I want to know the distance from center to center,

046 vibrates, 060 doesn't and have heard this from 5 diff. people with 09 m1000 162's

It must be the belt in the chassis combo causing the vibration. We have swapped 046 belts with the F chassis sleds and they are not getting the vibration.

I will try an 060 belt next season. We are done for in this area for the year.

 

[mrquick68]

Mine does the vibration thing from time to time too. it seems only when the belt is real hot though... Hmmm. something else to think about.

I'm going to try an XS-817 belt for giggles here next weekend, this weekend its just a new 046 a different helix and different primary spring with the cut down secondary. I removed .120 off the back of the secondary and trimmed the cup so it won't hit the DD.

 

[jeffro]

Mike said: "40 years of dicking with this stuff tells me its in the chassis. I think you guys have proven all the clutch parts won't help. So whats the difference between the 6/7/8 chassis and the 1000's? Motor mounts ? Engine off set? What fxzk up in mfg'n when they drop this motor in is different , and screwing with the belt. Do we have a bunch of bad bulheads out there with parts missing or bad welds or gussets missing? Motor mounts in backwards?
Really need to find a good one and a bad one and tear them down side by side. I don't have a 1000 or I'd help. Anybody in the Missoula are got a problem with this give me a call, we might be able to find a solution."

I tend to agree with him and that's the reason I recommended swapping BOTH clutches between a known-good sled & a belt-eater... If the problem follows the clutches you KNOW it's in the clutching. If the problem stays with the belt-eater, I'd say it's in the chassis.

I figure that's one of the easiest/fastest/cheapest ways to troubleshoot this EPIC problem.

Make sense?

-Jeff