SKI DOO OIL TANK CAP... A $14.99 alternative

[mountainhorse]

For me...The moot point is this.

Our sleds are a very dynamic thing... the oil cap can have oil in it... one could be more prone to sticking than others, is the bottle full or not, what is the temp, what kind of oil, etc etc etc...

For me... IF... and I'm not saying that there IS... IF the stock cap sicks shut.... and there is an oil flow problem... I'd like to avoid it.

To me..."sticking shut" is a likely bad thing overall... so I want to put on something that is not prone to that. The Doo cap is simpler in design and would not give the same "prone to" stick issues IMO. I also don't even want a drip/drop of oil coming out of the bottle that sits above the clutch/belt.

I don't think that there will be an answer to the "does it or doesn't it" questions here, with our testing... that is not contestable among readers, that would address all possible scenarios.




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[geo]

That's the point MH.
I understand your opinion of these posts too OS. You, your sled, your riding have never given you a reason to doubt there is an oil supply issue. You keep track and are aware. To me that is the important part of the thread.
But some don't and many will never read this thread. You know, " If a tree falls in a forest and no one sees it did it really happen" lol or however that saying goes.

Off brand, but, I know of 3 Cat's that have gone down to lack of lubrication yet the pump did not need replacing. 2 after the oil level sticker was issued.
So, I now come with a different perspective on this topic and just like I zap strap all electrical connecters cause one came undone once on a night ride and seal my intakes because the carbs froze once and keep my throttle assy a little loose cause I snapped it once in a get-off, only use my tool kit tools at home because once I couldn't undo an axle to get a log out, etc., this item has been added to "the must do list" on my sleds.

Just the possibility makes it a must do thing for me because of where I have been on a sled. It's not even if intermittent cap venting is an issue or not anymore for me. TRS and LH have shown flow differences. WTF??? LH has shown the ball can stick open so in reverse it should be possible to stick closed in my mind being AR lol. Done.

I think I'll pick-up a Doo cap just to balance the sled out more. I like the big handles (pet peeve for old guys eh lol) for one. It'll match the Doo rubbers, scratchers now and 2001 rear bumper-grab bar. Grab bar is another must do thing for me from to many stucks, grab bar has to stick way up off the flap when buried for my gloved hands and it can't be slippery when wet lol.

 

[Oregonsledder]

Geo you are so correct about the importance of monitoring oil consumption. I have always done that. I always had some concerns about oil injection from the early days on motorcycles and have always felt the need to watch it close on a 12K snowmobile. Not to rehash much of this, but the reason I'm not running out to buy a Doo cap is because the flow tests showed that the Polaris flows (under static conditions) many.. many more times the volume needed to lube the engine. If it was even close it would be a no brainer for me, but the Polaris cap does the job IMHO. I know the Polaris cap I don't know he Doo cap. For all we know it stick once immersed in oil too.
Monitor your oil consumption guys... don't just trust the cap, the pump the lines are always doing their job.

 

[TRS]

This thread has gone further than I ever anticipated. Great discussion.

 

[bryceraisanen]

Static bench tests provide useful info, but remember that a sled is moving and there is a lot of vibration. I would trust the ball bouncing around to do it's job over a rubber flapper that only depends on suction. I have no dog in this race. if the Polaris cap is a problem then someone needs to show something that proves it.

If u search my old threads you'll find where i scorched the motor, the oil line was empty. Tank was full. I unscrewed cap and heard a big hiss and seen the bottle expand as the air rushed in. Not once, but twice. Two motors. Two weeks apart. Why was that? This was two seasons ago.

... gotta finish reading the thread

 

[Snowmow]

If u search my old threads you'll find where i scorched the motor, the oil line was empty. Tank was full. I unscrewed cap and heard a big hiss and seen the bottle expand as the air rushed in. Not once, but twice. Two motors. Two weeks apart. Why was that? This was two seasons ago.

... gotta finish reading the thread

Glad you posted. I knew I read your posts awhile ago about the trouble you had.

 

[sledneck_03]

I just installed the xps cap. I tested my polaris cap by blowing in it.

Horizontal.... Can easily blow air threw

Tank angle....air blows through and then plugs right away

tank angle shaking cap (as best i could).....it plugs and allows air threw as you shake.


My opinion..... Not sure. I installed my ftx braces weeks ago and had sled on its side then and cap was still oily. Hasnt been touched since so... This thick mineral oil you guys using blocking the cap? I use -81.4 F pour synthetic.

The xps one for sure as long as there is a vacuum it will open the valve.

I stock design a stupid concept personally regardless if it works or not.

 

[bryceraisanen]

Man u guys r showcasing the most beautiful qualities of the online forums u make me proud lol!!

Some thoughts....

The tests demonstrated show that Polaris cap flows enough oil when working properly... They also show that the cap can stick in both directions. If u monkey with the cap for 5 minutes in the garage, you'll be able to reproduce this "stick" quite often. How often? Doesn't matter. One in a million is too much for comfort. Ok, so now just say for sake of example, how long till u hit a bump hard enough to jarr the valve open? 1 second? 20 seconds? 1 minute? Groomed trail riding 5 minutes? Keeping in mind that every second that passes by, is going to require a harder/sharper hit to jarr that valve, cause its technically building vacuum. The tests have shown that it doesnt take "much" vacuum at all to seal it tight enough so that NO amount of jarring will break the seal (thread on hcs.com).

Now, how long does it take to empty the oil line at 26:1 ratio running WOT? I had mine running 26:1 measured over four tanks of fuel. Im saying if ur valve sticks right before or better yet WHILE WOT, how long before empty oil line=failure?

Now, a lot of people can pry get away with a cap that sticks intermittently b/c they never have it WOT. And by never I mean less than 1% of the time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the hardest riding guys show about 8-9% WOT on the digital wrench. Any PI mechanics here? Most guys are probably in the 2-3% range. Given the mellow riding, a lot of guys will hit the perfect bump to jar it loose before it builds too much vacuum.

LSS, having the cap stick for a few seconds at the wrong time will prove fatal IMHO.

OS, how does the fact that your happy with oil consumption say anything about whether the cap sticks or not? Consumption over one or ten tanks of gas, does not prove that ur cap valve has or has not stuck on you even if it was only a few seconds. Venting the tank may or may not change oil consumption, based on riding style among other things. My thinking is that yours (and almost everyones) probably is sticking multiple times (mildly) throughout any given day. Luckily, its been jarred open before it got too much vaccuum.

Another point of information. The "natural state" of the valve on polaris cap is closed correct? It is only open when the steel ball bumps the valve? So technically, u are always "creating vacuum" but banking on the fact that the steel ball will bump it... kinda russian roulette-ish imo.

Some of you may recall my last scorched motor. It occurred shortly after having had my sled stuck upside down for about half an hour. Oil drained back into the tank and was replaced by air in the oil line/pump. For whatever reason, the oil pump lost its prime, or the valve stuck, or both. Way I see it, if I woulda had one of the "free-flow-cap-mods" the oil wouldve re-primed itself just based on gravity; in time to save my motor. But no, the darn cap with its "marginal flow" design created just enough hesitation for the oil not to go anywhere. And shortly after I'm siezed up.

And here's why I know a free-flow-cap woulda saved me. We drug the sled back into the trailer so I could see WTF was wrong. Check compression get 0 on one side and 80 on the other. I say $h!+ and start pulling the sled apart with intentions of getting another motor in an going back riding. Ok I'm doing this in the enclosed trailer/shop which is ON the hill right after it happened. No funny business here. I unbolt and remove the hood. Look down and first thing I notice is the oil line is empty. I start thinking wtf right? Now I'm taking my time smokin a ciggy, analyzing real close cause I don't wanna miss anything. Take a minute to brainstorm wtf is going on here. Notice the oil bottle looks funny. The sides seem to be kinda wierd. Then it hits me. The effin oil bottle is vacuum locked, just like often happens to plastic gas cans. Sure nuff, loosen the oil cap and pfffffftttt a big hiss of air goes in. Oil drains down the line all the way to the pump and a couple bubbles head the other way back into the bottle. Couldnt believe it right?!?! Shoulda had a free-flow-oil-cap!!!!

So I bring the sled home and start monkeying with the cap. Blowing through it (or trying to) at different angles. A couple hours later, and the Polaris Oil Cap Theory was born!


And if that aint enough, this'll surely put you doubters over the edge. I just went out to monkey with my oil cap for a quick refresher course. Havent touched the sled since April so I'm a little rusty. Anyways, I had to use a doggone pipe wrench to get the Polaris cap off. What a pain. If that there isn't reason enough, then nothing is!

 

[hoov165x]

A day without a post on this subject? Fixed it!!

 

[LoudHandle]

Just a note for those looking for a deal (in case there are other cheap bastards out there). While there are a lot of the Skidoo oil caps that have the XPS logo on them and look the same as part number 519000273 on E-bay. Most, if not all, are the previous non-vented cap part number 519000194, so unless they show a picture of the inside and you can see the duck bill, Save your money. As they want retail price or better for them.

 

[jdw1]

So I have a different view here,

Let's just say that the cap vents are sticking or not venting properly and not permitting enough oil flow, wouldn't there be a ton of sleds on the flatland that have gone down? I'm not saying that it hasn't happened on the flats but I would think that there would be a ton of sleds burned down if the cap was the issue. I've been on groomed flat RR grades for miles at high speeds for extended periods of time, much longer than any pull I have been on out west.

I'm not for or against the BPR oil cap or anybody's vent system, I'm just trying to think out of the box we are in.

 

[diamonddave]

So I have a different view here,

Let's just say that the cap vents are sticking or not venting properly and not permitting enough oil flow, wouldn't there be a ton of sleds on the flatland that have gone down? I'm not saying that it hasn't happened on the flats but I would think that there would be a ton of sleds burned down if the cap was the issue. I've been on groomed flat RR grades for miles at high speeds for extended periods of time, much longer than any pull I have been on out west.

I'm not for or against the BPR oil cap or anybody's vent system, I'm just trying to think out of the box we are in.

My theory is that the trail sleds and trail ridden sleds will not be as affected as a hard ridden mountain sled by this type of cap vent.

The issue as I see it are the sleds that are ridden in much more extreme attitudes where the cap vent is closed much longer and engine is under much more load than a trail ridden sled. It is the extreme attitude's and riding style doesn't allow for the occasional vent open that many are okay with.

Think about a sled doing donuts or shredding at a 90' degree attitude for 5-10 minutes in deep snow or sidehilling a mountain for the same amount of time.

Which then leads me to.... wonder if the deformed oil tank necks are happening from the extreme pressure (vacuum) these tanks are under when the vent is not open? I would also think these deformed necks tanks might possibly become a secondary vent when they start leaking which then "helps" the oil cap vent.

 

[jdw1]

Has anyone cut a oem cap apart to see why it wouldn't work?

 

[Oregonsledder]

My theory is that the trail sleds and trail ridden sleds will not be as affected as a hard ridden mountain sled by this type of cap vent.

The issue as I see it are the sleds that are ridden in much more extreme attitudes where the cap vent is closed much longer and engine is under much more load than a trail ridden sled. It is the extreme attitude's and riding style doesn't allow for the occasional vent open that many are okay with.

Think about a sled doing donuts or shredding at a 90' degree attitude for 5-10 minutes in deep snow or sidehilling a mountain for the same amount of time.

Which then leads me to.... wonder if the deformed oil tank necks are happening from the extreme pressure (vacuum) these tanks are under when the vent is not open? I would also think these deformed necks tanks might possibly become a secondary vent when they start leaking which then "helps" the oil cap vent.

Dave now you are stealing my theories on this subject. See post #65 LOL

 

[BILTIT]

Has anyone cut a oem cap apart to see why it wouldn't work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBS5UfdKDpY

 

[sledneck_03]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBS5UfdKDpY

Stupid design. Xps is better.

 

[Esh]

I conducted a field test earlier this week. This is short term/low mileage testing and is for informational use only. I'm not a rocket doctor, but these were my results from riding.

Oil was filled with a measuring spout. Gasoline was filled from 5 gallon containers and topped off with a measuring spout. 5 gallon cans were filled from empty at a pump using the pump's meter.

I filled the fuel and oil to the same level with the sled sitting in the same flat spot in a parking lot with the suspension leveled.

Weather conditions were the same and I rode in the same areas. I warmed the sled up to 100* both days before leaving.

Sled is a 2015 800 RMK Assault. It is stock except for a can and the oiler turned up 2.5 turns.

Day one:
35 miles on the odometer. 5.8 Gallons of fuel. 16 oz of oil used for a 46:1 ratio with the stock cap.

Day two:
37 miles on the odometer. 6.0 Gallons of fuel. 27 oz of oil used for a 28.5:1 ratio with a vented cap. When I looked back at every hill climbed, it was reminiscent of my undies after a long night of Low Life pitchers and wings. I plan on adjusting the oil pump and shooting for 35:1.


I vented the cap because I had erratic oil use last year on days the sled was rolled a few times. I also had the stuck cap vent twice last year with the "PFFFT!" when opening it.

Again, these are my results. Interpret however you wish. I feel my vented cap was a good purchase.

 

[sledneck_03]

Its only $15, my lunch in thursday that was terrible was $17.... Go grill... Terrible!

 

[diamonddave]

Good morning Dave. A couple of comments. First I'm hardly all fired up. I have been having some fun with this thread and hoping to get a guy or two to think for themselves. Second, you make some assumptions on where I ride or have ridden. Regardless of the places I have ridden, do you also assume that when I do ride in Central Oregon that I don't have prolonged periods of pinned riding situations? I guess I'm trying to figure out why you think riding in Central Oregon somehow negates this so called cap issue.
News flash! Since last night I did further research on his matter. I think I have it figured out!
As previously stated, this Polaris cap has been used for years. This concern over venting is new. It has surfaced since that guy who makes aluminum neck sleeves for the oil tanks began selling his product. Before his product showed up on the market, these oil tanks leaked oil and made a mess. That leakage also allowed air in!! Bingo!! Remove those sleeves and problem solved.
Of course I’m jesting here, his neck sleeves are not the problem, but I suspect I could get some guys here to believe it was a problem with little effort.
If guys want to trade one vented cap for another without any proof there is any difference in potential air reduction potential, then go for it. I think they would make great stocking stuffers! Merry Christmas.

Dave now you are stealing my theories on this subject. See post #65 LOL

Hardly stealing at all but if it makes you feel better that I stole your theory, then I'm all for it.

My post was a theory about why these caps don't work for extreme riders and why the tank necks most likely deform. You never stated a "theory" on why they deform but since you are accusing me of stealing, then why don't you give us your theory?

And you might want to do some more reading. I was posting about these oil cap vent's being an issue with the IQ's and before the neck sleeves started being advertised for Pro's with leaking, deformed tanks.

I hope for your customer's you wouldn't really advocate for a leaking oil tank.

 

[bryceraisanen]

So I have a different view here,

Let's just say that the cap vents are sticking or not venting properly and not permitting enough oil flow, wouldn't there be a ton of sleds on the flatland that have gone down? I'm not saying that it hasn't happened on the flats but I would think that there would be a ton of sleds burned down if the cap was the issue. I've been on groomed flat RR grades for miles at high speeds for extended periods of time, much longer than any pull I have been on out west.

I'm not for or against the BPR oil cap or anybody's vent system, I'm just trying to think out of the box we are in.

Welll.... there actually has been a decent amount. Not sure where u are from or if ur a member on hcs. But it seems to me that a lot of the flatlanders (im in MN) have been blaming their burnt motors on bad gas. I think a lot of them were oil issues, but its tough to speculate or prove without being there to touch/see/smell/taste/inspect the motor myself.... a lot of the fix kits for the CFI2 are centered around the fact that engine builders noticed the rods were blueing.... well why does a rod do that? Rhetorical question of course but its b/c it got hot. From friction. Why was there too much friction? Lol i love this investigative stuff... isnt oil sposed to prevent/ease friction?