RUNNING AN AXYS-QuickDrive™ BELT ON A 2013-15 PRO WITH A TENSIONER? FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

[black z]

Anything ever develop here?

 

[mountainhorse]

ANOTHER BELT DRIVE DISCUSSION THREAD

Note:

I've "Pruned this" from another thread where I was taking it off track... Put it here to keep the other thread on track. (my fault for the de-rail)

MH, do you really want to bend that factory belt backwards after reading the handling guide for those belts? The instructions make you think you should put on cashmere gloves before taking it out of the box.

Chris,

I see that TKI makes tensioners for the stock belt for the ProRide and now for the AXYS stock belts... I've NOT heard of belt issues or tensioner issues... or, heck... any comments on this. In this forum where small issues get put under a magnifying glass, I've heard nothing.

I've also seen backbending cautions from mfgs of synchronous belts...but no recurring issues in their use in aftermarket belt drives for snowmobiles from any mfg. of these drives.

Mine is a sincere question and proposition.... I really don't see a big difference from tensioner use on a stock QD belt that is one tooth longer... compared to the same mfg factory QD belt standard for that year application.

It seems that the "proof is in the pudding" with the belt drive tensioners (stock and aftermarket) and the pudding does not seem to be having issues.

Proper pre-load on a synchronous belt is important to longevity ... which is why I believe these tensioners are being made and sold in the first place ??

I see in your signature that you are a dealer for Toms products... Have you sold any of these tensioners for stock belts? If so, have you had any negative feedback or know of any?

http://shop.tkicnc.com/2016-Polaris-Belt-Drive-Factory-Tensioner-TKI-PTEN16.htm

http://shop.tkicnc.com/Polaris-Belt-Drive-Factory-Tensioner-TKI-PTEN13.htm

tkicnc.com:

ProRide: The Polaris Belt Drive Factory Tensioner for models 2013 – 2014 to tension the factory belt and reduce slack in the factory setup. This tensioner has been tested on factory and turbo sleds with great results. Slight to no modification to factory set up. Manufactured in the USA!!

AXYS:The Polaris Belt Drive Factory Tensioner for the 2016 models to tension the factory belt and reduce slack in the factory setup. This tensioner has been tested on factory and turbo sleds with great results. Slight to no modification to factory set up. Manufactured in the USA

 

[94fordguy]

I hear ya Bobby... and this is what I've been preaching as well...And now, wondering what kind of results TKI has been having with this tensioner for stock belts which they have had out for a couple of seasons now??

Gates also says not to back tension their GT Carbon PolyChain belts...but the aftermarket drives, except for the CMXDS, use back tensioners.

My sources tell me the factory belt is a Gates 11mm GT Carbon PolyChain belt specially made for Polaris.

I doubt it would have much of a "dog leg" in it though...


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I've got a gear down kit from Kurt's Polaris and a 1-off tensioner made by Mike Van Amburg on my Pro along with a Gates Carbon Poly Chain setup. Basically everything on it is aftermarket and works well... I've got over 700 miles on the same belt and have not even touched it and I'm not sure how many miles Mike put on this belt and setup before I bought the sled from him.

 

[mountainhorse]

Nobody has a direct answer. I have both sleds and have tensioner on Pro. I'll have to just go pull them off and see. As for the amount of belt deflection the tensioner will have to absorb, we'll just have to see.

That would be AWESOME... I've been trying to find out this answer for a while! (as you've noted)

Please take some photos and weather or not you can install the AXYS belt on the ProRide without taking off the pulleys...and then snugging up with the tensioner.

It's only one tooth more on the AXYS belt according to Diamond Dave.... so there should not be much dog-leg in the belt.


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[Teth-Air]

Chris,

I see that TKI makes tensioners for the stock belt for the ProRide and now for the AXYS stock belts... I've NOT heard of belt issues or tensioner issues... or, heck... any comments on this. In this forum where small issues get put under a magnifying glass, I've heard nothing.

I've also seen backbending cautions from mfgs of synchronous belts...but no recurring issues in their use in aftermarket belt drives for snowmobiles from any mfg. of these drives.

Mine is a sincere question and proposition.... I really don't see a big difference from tensioner use on a stock QD belt that is one tooth longer... compared to the same mfg factory QD belt standard for that year application.

It seems that the "proof is in the pudding" with the belt drive tensioners (stock and aftermarket) and the pudding does not seem to be having issues.

Proper pre-load on a synchronous belt is important to longevity ... which is why I believe these tensioners are being made and sold in the first place ??

I see in your signature that you are a dealer for Toms products... Have you sold any of these tensioners for stock belts? If so, have you had any negative feedback or know of any?

http://shop.tkicnc.com/2016-Polaris-Belt-Drive-Factory-Tensioner-TKI-PTEN16.htm

http://shop.tkicnc.com/Polaris-Belt-Drive-Factory-Tensioner-TKI-PTEN13.htm

The answer is NO, I don't sell many as I don't have faith in the design of the Quickdrive. I don't believe a tensioner provides much benefit unless the belt is sufficiently long enough to gain wrap on the top gear to significantly increase belt/gear contact. IMO there is more benefit in increasing contact to spread the load over multiple teeth than any other benefits like easy of changing the belt or gearing. Reliability is number 1 and performance gains number 2 and finally ease of belt change is number 3.

When you replace the entire system, you gain all 3 of these and on top of that your clutch belt lasts much longer and the Gates Polychain belts cost 1/2 of what the QD belt costs. If you own your sled for a couple years it is easily paid for. Then buy a new backing plate and move it right over to your 2.6 AXYS

 

[mountainhorse]

For me ... I'm still glad that PI has kept the chain drive on certain models.

I do agree that the TKI/C3/Kurt's belt-drive systems are upgrades to the factory quickdrive...but our opinion differs in that I don't believe that a belt drive is an upgrade to the POLARIS factory HYVO chain drive, taking all factors into account.... thats my opinion...others have theirs... and hey, thats OK in the big scheme of things.

As you said, reliability is "number 1" on the concerns list... and I believe that the HYVO chain-drives has proved itself in that department. I have seen no conclusive test results that show that a belt drive performs better than a HYVO drive... and field change of a chain is so rare, in the scope of the total numbers of chaindrive Polaris mountain sleds out there, that I find it insignificant to the discussion (Numbers 2 and 3)

All that being said... I have many friends, some of them part of the "Boondockers film riders-crew" ... that have turbos or N/A sleds with factory QuickDrives that are HAMMERED way beyond what I could ever do to a sled... and their QuickDrives are holding up fine. Some of them have TKI drives, like Matt Entz, without issues too.

I believe strongly that the Factory Belt-Drive was a way to cut cost and that was the primary reason for using it... with the secondary benefit that it lowers static weight of the sled. I've yet to see a side-by-side comparison of the same sleds... one with quick drive/ the other with chain drive.... difficult to do... maybe a 2.6" Assault with a RMK width front and a Pro RMK 2.6" with the stock front width... and the same shocks... Maybe... But not an SKS compared to a PRO RMK or a PRO RMK 3" compared to an SKS etc. [Identical clutching/belts/suspension/shocks/engines/accessories]

IF someone WERE, for their own reasons, to switch out their ProRide/AXYS from a chaindrive sled to a belt drive system ... I would not hesitate to direct them to a C3/TKI/Kurt's over switching out to factory QuickDrive parts... not even a close decision as those are superior designs to the factory Quickdrive.



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[Teth-Air]

For me ... I'm still glad that PI has kept the chain drive on certain models.

I do agree that the TKI/C3/Kurt's belt-drive systems are upgrades to the factory quickdrive...but our opinion differs in that I don't believe that a belt drive is an upgrade to the POLARIS factory HYVO chain drive, taking all factors into account.... thats my opinion...others have theirs... and hey, thats OK in the big scheme of things.

As you said, reliability is "number 1" on the concerns list... and I believe that the HYVO chain-drives has proved itself in that department. I have seen no conclusive test results that show that a belt drive performs better than a HYVO drive... and field change of a chain is so rare, in the scope of the total numbers of chaindrive Polaris mountain sleds out there, that I find it insignificant to the discussion (Numbers 2 and 3)

All that being said... I have many friends, some of them part of the "Boondockers film riders-crew" ... that have turbos or N/A sleds with factory QuickDrives that are HAMMERED way beyond what I could ever do to a sled... and their QuickDrives are holding up fine. Some of them have TKI drives, like Matt Entz, without issues too.

I believe strongly that the Factory Belt-Drive was a way to cut cost and that was the primary reason for using it... with the secondary benefit that it lowers static weight of the sled. I've yet to see a side-by-side comparison of the same sleds... one with quick drive/ the other with chain drive.... difficult to do... maybe a 2.6" Assault with a RMK width front and a Pro RMK 2.6" with the stock front width... and the same shocks... Maybe... But not an SKS compared to a PRO RMK or a PRO RMK 3" compared to an SKS etc. [Identical clutching/belts/suspension/shocks/engines/accessories]

IF someone WERE, for their own reasons, to switch out their ProRide/AXYS from a chaindrive sled to a belt drive system ... I would not hesitate to direct them to a C3/TKI/Kurt's over switching out to factory QuickDrive parts... not even a close decision as those are superior designs to the factory Quickdrive.



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Do you own a Pro with the belt drive to really know the difference?

 

[mountainhorse]

Do you own a Pro with the belt drive to really know the difference?

No, I have a chain-drive sled... had long term loaners with QuickDrives though... experience with both drive systems.

That said... the aftermarket drives, as I've stated many times throughout the forums (and above) are quality made products that are, IMO, robust improvements to the factory QuickDrives in the Polaris sleds.

I've seen no credible evidence, however, that there is a performance improvement to a belt drive from any source... I've also not seen a lot of issues with the factory QuickDrive following the first year of release.... In fact...I have a good friend with 3000 hard miles on his 2013 with original QD belt as well... so go figure?? The belt drives are lighter than a chaindrive, with the factory QuickDrive weighing the least.

I have seen some college project papers that included some info on belt drives posted online with some claims...but nothing from a dyno or other well constructed test. I have seen publications from Gates, maker of the Carbon GT belts, that chains drives are more efficient.

Would be good to see some methodical testing... one sled.... one setup on a track dyno... the only change being a belt drive added...with the sled still fixured in the dyno... and see if there were any improvements. Same ambient temp, baro, pipe temp, fuel etc; essentially a quick change out of a chaindrive for a belt... say 1/2 hour apart.. with the same pipe temp and running loads.

I do like the idea of an electric motor monitoring ampere draw results... IF used under load, actual same sled used without removing it from the dyno... it would have to be a significant motor though.. say, 100hp to even come close to replicating a loaded drivetrain... and able to load the track dyno significantly to check for any actual performance differences under load and at speed... which is what matters.

I could be eating crow on this from test results from this... and would be good to have some kind of credible evidence one way or the other.

Will that ever happen... who knows...but sure would be cool!

It would be great to find out how much weight the various aftermarket belt drives add to a factory QuickDrive equipped sled? And then the difference of the factory chaindrive, Quick drive and Aftermarket systems.

In 2012, when a group of riders and I got to test the new QuickDrive equipped ProRmk, with Polaris, in Utah... we had back to back testing against new but broken in 2012 Pro's and broken in 2013 QD-Pro's... The handling did feel different between the 12's & 13's, and both sleds had different front suspensions (arms/shocks) so, I can't say what that difference was from. Even the 2013 Std RMK, to me, feels like it has a hair more 'grunt' and 'snappy-ness' on the bottom than the 2012/11's.

In the end, we have a lot of choices... and some very passionate and skilled aftermarket providers with some amazing offerings for us to "trick out" our rides.


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