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Need Advice!

S
Nov 26, 2016
4
2
3
My wife and I have vacation property in northern washington, It's a four mile snowmobile ride to the Canadian border. Our property is 4000' and we will be riding up to around 8000' We plan on riding 99% of the time on un-polwed dirt roads with 4' to maybe 10' of snow?? I would like mine to be able to ride two, so I can give our grand kids rides. Really don't want to buy knew but not wanting so old that we can't ride it back, and these will be our 1st snowmobiles. The biggest thing for now is what is considered HIGH MILES-HOURS?
Thanks Mel
 

Shattered1

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Oct 10, 2012
180
153
43
Juneau, AK
If you go with a four stroke, miles aren't a big concern. The motors usually last for 20k miles or more. If it's an older two stroke tripple (three cylinders) it will likely run for a long time as well. I've known guys that have put 10k miles on Yamaha SRX's and Mountain Max's with no maintenance to the engine. But most of the older tripples have been retired or are just old and beaten.

As a general rule, most two cylinder two stroke motors need a rebuild at 2500 to 3000 miles unless they have been babied. The exception is the Ski Doo ETec motors. They have been around for five years of so and seem to have good longevity. I've seen guys online saying that they have put 5K miles a year on them with no proplems. The guys that I ride with that have them have been very happy, but I have read complaints that they don't have the power that their predecessors did. To me, I'd sacrifice some power for reliability, but some people value power more.

As far as what to look for? It sounds like you are looking for a trail sled. If you want a 2 up, that's about all you're going to find. If you plan to buy new, any of the manufacturers are a good choice. Ski Doo, Yamaha, Arctic Cat and Polaris are making good stuff these days and I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. I'd recommend going to the dealers, telling them what you're looking for and see what they offer.

I know I'm going to start a brand argument here (some people are really sensitive about the brand loyalty thing. If you don't ride what they ride and acknowledge their superiority, you're a dumbass) but Arctic Cat and Yamaha are using the same Yamaha four stroke motors now and they are arguably the most reliable motors in the sled market. And Yamaha has two other motors (a 500 cc in the Phaser and Venture and a 1000 cc in the Apex and Viking) that are very reliable as well. So, if you are looking for a sled that you won't have to do any maintenance on, I would recommend a Yamaha or Arctic Cat four stroke. I have one that's 13 years old with over 7K hard mountain miles on it (and expect to get 15K more) and haven't had any motor troubles. And that is to be expected with them. I've had to replace some wear items and had to repair as a result of crashes, but otherwise, it's been solid. I'm 50 now and expect I'll be too old to ride anymore by the time my sled is needs to be replaced. The trade off is that they're heavier which is an issue when you get one stuck. But they're all heavy when they're stuck.

Another thing I'd recommend is getting some time in with an experienced rider. Surprisingly, there's a lot more to it than squeezing a throttle and turning the handlebars. Everyone's a dumbass when they first start riding, and getting some pointers from someone who has some experience is valuable.

It's also a bad idea to ride alone. I've done it myself and probably will again, but I have many stories about acquaintances who have nearly killed themselves doing it. Just last season, a guy I know had to get hoisted out of a ravine by a Coast Guard helicopter, and he had two riding partners. But he took off on a little side trip and they didn't know where he had gone. The other two finally called 911 after not being able to find him for a couple of hours. And he was less than a half mile away. If the Troopers and Coast Guard wouldn't have found him (about 8 hours later) he probably would have died in that ravine. He got into a situation that he wasn't prepared for and it could well have killed him. Things can go wrong very quickly, so it's a good idea to have someone riding with you.

Another thing I would recommend is talking to your neighbors. See what they are using and pick their brains for information as to why they are riding what they're riding. If everyone there is riding a mountain sled, or a utility sled, there may be a reason.

The last thing I'll leave you with is my preference for mountain sleds. I have been able to make a mountain sled work on trails, but a trail sled doesn't usually work very well in the backcountry. I know people back east prefer trail sleds, but there are a lot of groomed trails back east. Many of them never leave the groomed trails, so it works for them. If you're going to be breaking trail on old logging roads in 10 inches of powder, it may get real old real quick on a trail sled. The mountain tracks are longer, have bigger paddles and mountain sleds have wider skis to deal with those conditions. The only thing you really need on a mountain sled to use it on trails, rivers and lakes are ice scratchers in order to keep the rails lubed and keep the sled cool.

I really could go on forever, but I think that's a good start. Good luck. I hope you find the right sled for what you're doing.
 

Elkaholic4life

Twin Peaks
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Dec 19, 2013
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Portland, OR
That was well written and good advice in my opinion. But i would like to bring up one thing about the four strokes. They are heavy. If I was going to buy a trail sled it would be a four stroke. From what the what Salmon Guy said, they are not groomed trails. I'd hate to get stuck in the middle of nowhere with my grand kids trying to pull out a 700 pound sled. I may be wrong about the conditions that the sled will be ridden. just trying to be helpfull :face-icon-small-hap

If you go with a four stroke, miles aren't a big concern. The motors usually last for 20k miles or more. If it's an older two stroke tripple (three cylinders) it will likely run for a long time as well. I've known guys that have put 10k miles on Yamaha SRX's and Mountain Max's with no maintenance to the engine. But most of the older tripples have been retired or are just old and beaten.

As a general rule, most two cylinder two stroke motors need a rebuild at 2500 to 3000 miles unless they have been babied. The exception is the Ski Doo ETec motors. They have been around for five years of so and seem to have good longevity. I've seen guys online saying that they have put 5K miles a year on them with no proplems. The guys that I ride with that have them have been very happy, but I have read complaints that they don't have the power that their predecessors did. To me, I'd sacrifice some power for reliability, but some people value power more.

As far as what to look for? It sounds like you are looking for a trail sled. If you want a 2 up, that's about all you're going to find. If you plan to buy new, any of the manufacturers are a good choice. Ski Doo, Yamaha, Arctic Cat and Polaris are making good stuff these days and I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. I'd recommend going to the dealers, telling them what you're looking for and see what they offer.

I know I'm going to start a brand argument here (some people are really sensitive about the brand loyalty thing. If you don't ride what they ride and acknowledge their superiority, you're a dumbass) but Arctic Cat and Yamaha are using the same Yamaha four stroke motors now and they are arguably the most reliable motors in the sled market. And Yamaha has two other motors (a 500 cc in the Phaser and Venture and a 1000 cc in the Apex and Viking) that are very reliable as well. So, if you are looking for a sled that you won't have to do any maintenance on, I would recommend a Yamaha or Arctic Cat four stroke. I have one that's 13 years old with over 7K hard mountain miles on it (and expect to get 15K more) and haven't had any motor troubles. And that is to be expected with them. I've had to replace some wear items and had to repair as a result of crashes, but otherwise, it's been solid. I'm 50 now and expect I'll be too old to ride anymore by the time my sled is needs to be replaced. The trade off is that they're heavier which is an issue when you get one stuck. But they're all heavy when they're stuck.

Another thing I'd recommend is getting some time in with an experienced rider. Surprisingly, there's a lot more to it than squeezing a throttle and turning the handlebars. Everyone's a dumbass when they first start riding, and getting some pointers from someone who has some experience is valuable.

It's also a bad idea to ride alone. I've done it myself and probably will again, but I have many stories about acquaintances who have nearly killed themselves doing it. Just last season, a guy I know had to get hoisted out of a ravine by a Coast Guard helicopter, and he had two riding partners. But he took off on a little side trip and they didn't know where he had gone. The other two finally called 911 after not being able to find him for a couple of hours. And he was less than a half mile away. If the Troopers and Coast Guard wouldn't have found him (about 8 hours later) he probably would have died in that ravine. He got into a situation that he wasn't prepared for and it could well have killed him. Things can go wrong very quickly, so it's a good idea to have someone riding with you.

Another thing I would recommend is talking to your neighbors. See what they are using and pick their brains for information as to why they are riding what they're riding. If everyone there is riding a mountain sled, or a utility sled, there may be a reason.

The last thing I'll leave you with is my preference for mountain sleds. I have been able to make a mountain sled work on trails, but a trail sled doesn't usually work very well in the backcountry. I know people back east prefer trail sleds, but there are a lot of groomed trails back east. Many of them never leave the groomed trails, so it works for them. If you're going to be breaking trail on old logging roads in 10 inches of powder, it may get real old real quick on a trail sled. The mountain tracks are longer, have bigger paddles and mountain sleds have wider skis to deal with those conditions. The only thing you really need on a mountain sled to use it on trails, rivers and lakes are ice scratchers in order to keep the rails lubed and keep the sled cool.

I really could go on forever, but I think that's a good start. Good luck. I hope you find the right sled for what you're doing.
 
N
Sep 16, 2012
49
22
8
If your looking for a nice 2 up sled that won't break the bank I think the Arctic Cat T660 is still one of the best around. As for high miles on a 2 stroke mountain sled 3-5k is getting up there but I've personally seen more than one M8 motor with 10k miles that has never been apart. As for the 4 stroke, the engine will out live the sled almost always. The problem with the 4 strokes is they are heavy and riding a trail sled on ungroomed roads in over 12 inches of fresh can get to be challenging to say the least. If you haven't ever snowmobiled before I would highly suggest renting a couple and trying it out to see what you like/don't like. Buying a couple of sleds now and then soon finding out they are not at all what you wanted then having to sell them and buy more happens quite a bit.
 

Shattered1

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Oct 10, 2012
180
153
43
Juneau, AK
I have another story related to the practicality of mountain sleds. Just food for thought.

I didn't get into sledding until fairly late in life. The biggest reason was that my experience with small engines had not been good. Trying to get a lawn mower, go cart or outboard started and keeping them running had frustrated me more than once, and I don't need frustration in my life. So I usually shyed away from anything with small engines. But things have changed since my experiences 30 years earlier. Snowmobile motors are far more reliable today and I have yet to have a problem with mine not starting and running.

I would go on winter moose and caribou hunts north of Fairbanks and rent sleds from a guy there. It was about $1000 a week to rent them, and after a few years of that, I decided I could buy a sled and save money in the long run. Eventually the sled would pay for itself.

The sleds that I had rented in Fairbanks were Arctic Cat Bearcat utility sleds. I thought that that was what I wanted, because that's what I had used before and it worked fine for what I was doing. They always started (the guy we rented from maintained them meticulously) and worked well for hauling caribou down trails, so I was sure I wanted a utility sled.

So, I discussed it with a friend who had been riding (and been trying to get me into riding) for about 20 years. I told him that I wanted to get a utility sled and his response was "What about riding around here? A utility sled would really limit your options." At the time, I wasn't really that interested in riding around here. I just wanted transportation for winter hunts up north. But he argued (correctly I might add) that I could use a mountain sled for hunts in the flatlands up north as well as the mountainous terrain around here if I wanted. I still wasn't fully convinced, but kept it in the back of my head.

So, when I finally pulled the trigger, I opted for a mountain sled. And I'm very glad I did. Not only have I gotten into sledding recreationally, but on one of the moose hunts up north, we had chest deep powder to deal with. It was a huge pain because we were trenching in constantly, but if we had utility sleds, we probably wouldn't have been able to go anywhere.

Then I got into riding for the sake of riding. Once you pull your first big hill and sit on a mountain top seeing scenery that you normally only see from an airplane window, it'll hook you. I described it to a guy that I was chatting with at an airport bar once as being like surfing. He was from California and could relate to that analogy. Once it grabs you, it's all you want to do.

So, I didn't initially want a mountain sled, but I'm glad I chose to get one. Far more practical in my opinion.
 
A
Jun 23, 2004
1,954
545
113
Black Diamond, WA
Well you'll have the time of your life.
No need to go new for your first sleds.
High miles is relative. 2s or 4s? High perf liquid cooled or fan cooled?
Big bores like 800/900 or smaller 600-700cc.
Who/how it was ridden, how it was maintained all factors in. And some models are known for their longevity and others not so much.
I'd reccomend taking someone who knows sleds with when you look at them easy to miss hidden damage too if you don't know what to look for. Or poll the masses here when you narrow it down.
Second the reccomendation for a Mountian sled, at least one to break trail.
You pretty much can't get a true 2 up machine and a decent powder sled in the same machine. Closest are some of the newer Doo utility/2 ups, but they suck to powder turn.
Many good used sleds in every budget range. If you're getting 2 machines, maybe one 600cc/150" track or bigger powder sled and one 2 up 4 stroke Yami for giving the kids rides.
 
C
Aug 6, 2016
89
33
18
65
Cedaredge,co
I would take a good look at the M series cats, 06 to 2011. Believe they came in 500,600,800 and 1000 cc, and from 141 to 162 inch track lengths.

Great mountin sleds, and any where from 2k for M5/6s up to 5k for the M1000.

Once you bust trail with the mountain sled you might get a touring machine through, but in the deep powder, be pretty sketchy. Two up sleds really are made for groomed trails. Here's a link on the 2up seat for mountain sleds, look around no im sure you find um cheaper, eBay, country cat are good spots to shop. http://store.arcticcat.com/products/908642/2-Up_Seat_Kit

There are aftermarket second seats you can install on a mountain sled, pretty sure it would jack up the weight and balance, but for cruising the kiddies around once you have busted trail, prolly work well.

Here's a example here in classifieds. http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418448 Also on these older M's the seat is long, you can tuck a grandkid, not a teenager, lol, right in front of you and they can hold on to the mountain bar. Not recommended as there not two up machines, but I've seen it a zillion times. I'm not an advocate myself.
 
Last edited:
S
Nov 26, 2016
4
2
3
Sled

I saw this on craigslist for $999, The picture looked good??

550 Sport Touring 2 seater with 2670 miles. Runs solid and all original. Has never been registered in California but have paperwork from Minnesota.
 
1
Dec 5, 2015
300
92
28
Minnesota
I saw this on craigslist for $999, The picture looked good??

550 Sport Touring 2 seater with 2670 miles. Runs solid and all original. Has never been registered in California but have paperwork from Minnesota.

Under powered, (something like 65HP) never understood 2 up with a 550 fan. Couple that with deep snow it'll not be a good combination. Not sure if that sled is a carb or fuel injection. But you'd want fuel injection with the differences in altitudes your riding
 
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R
Sep 15, 2016
42
19
8
Laramie WY
One of my biggest factors on what sled to buy came down to how the dealership treated me! I had one that didn't care if I bought something and then the other that treated me awesome.
 

Shattered1

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Oct 10, 2012
180
153
43
Juneau, AK
Under powered, (something like 65HP) never understood 2 up with a 550 fan. Couple that with deep snow it'll not be a good combination. Not sure if that sled is a carb or fuel injection. But you'd want fuel injection with the differences in altitudes your riding

I'd also add that 2600 miles is a lot of miles. It is likely ready for a rebuild. Then again, if you bought it for $900 and invested another $500 - $1000 in getting it rebuilt, it might a worthwhile investment.

I would pay to have a competent mechanic check it out before I closed the deal on it. They should be able to tell you if it's worth buying or not. Two strokes can last a long time if they aren't worked too hard, so it may be in great shape. But a compression test should be done to tell you what condition the motor is in.

$1000 isn't a lot of money for a sled, but make sure you aren't buying someone else's problems. A thousand dollars is a lot of money if it turns into a huge pain in the a$$.
 
S
Nov 26, 2016
4
2
3
sled

I could afford to buy new if I want to, But I don't ever buy new. What started this was I realized I coudn't ride my dual sport trail riding anymore because of a replaced knee and a bad back. So I thought since were spending more time up at our property, in Washington it's time to try a snowmobile. I hired a equipment operator this past summer to cut in a new road on my property. He and his wife live near me up there. They have been riding snowmobiles for years and invited us to ride with them anytime. His stories gave me the bug. As far as going alone and all the winter dangers. I'm 55 years old and have spent many years hunting out of state in bad conditions. So I even though I don't know squat about these sleds, I'm learning. I put my dual sport on Craigslist to trade for a snowmobile. Well I've had about 10 or 12 offers but most seem to be modified hot rods. I wouldn't have a problem trading my bike or spending up to around about $4000 or less. Then if I really like it I'll buy more to have extras for family when they visit.
 

Shattered1

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Oct 10, 2012
180
153
43
Juneau, AK
I could afford to buy new if I want to, But I don't ever buy new. What started this was I realized I coudn't ride my dual sport trail riding anymore because of a replaced knee and a bad back. So I thought since were spending more time up at our property, in Washington it's time to try a snowmobile. I hired a equipment operator this past summer to cut in a new road on my property. He and his wife live near me up there. They have been riding snowmobiles for years and invited us to ride with them anytime. His stories gave me the bug. As far as going alone and all the winter dangers. I'm 55 years old and have spent many years hunting out of state in bad conditions. So I even though I don't know squat about these sleds, I'm learning. I put my dual sport on Craigslist to trade for a snowmobile. Well I've had about 10 or 12 offers but most seem to be modified hot rods. I wouldn't have a problem trading my bike or spending up to around about $4000 or less. Then if I really like it I'll buy more to have extras for family when they visit.

I'd contact your equipment operator friend and see what he's riding and look for something comparable. He probably has more valuable input than anyone since he's been riding in the area for years.

Good luck.
 
S
Nov 26, 2016
4
2
3
sled

Yes your right, We have been playing phone tag for over a month. I do know His are no more then a couple years old. Thanks for all your help out there. When I put my motorcycle on craigslist for sale or trade for a snowmobile, I never expected to have so many offers to trade for a snowmobile. Bottom line is "I had know idea there was so much to consider when buying a snowmobile". So I would have no problem getting into a snowmobile for $1000 to $5000 but obviously I'm an Idiot thinking I could jump on a sled and take off for a day of fun. Again thanks for your help. I'll keep reading and I'll let you know when and what I end up with.
Thanks again,
Mel
 
A
Jun 23, 2004
1,954
545
113
Black Diamond, WA
You sound outdoors wise and if you ride dual sport you won't have an issue taking off on a sled. Especially if you stick to roads an open areas until you're comfortable.

My son has a 550 RMK, 99 model. Has 2300 miles on it. It could blow up tomorrow but I wouldn't consider it anywhere needing rebuilt right now and would trust it to ride all day. Will be tomorrow actually!
That 2 up 550 will not pull your arms off, but will pack gramma and a kid around on roads and trails just fine as fast as they want to go.
If find a Arctoc cat M sled for yourself if you want to stay in the $2-4000 range.
Sleds are just like bikes. Do good maintenance, be proactive and you'll be set.
Can't stress enough though. If buying a used sled and you're unfamiliar, find some one who knows sleds to check it out for you. (Just like of you didn't know anything about bikes, think of all you'd miss based on your years of experience )
 

KMMAC

Well-known member
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Feb 7, 2008
1,461
207
63
Mount Vernon, WA
First thing I would do if I were you is go sit on a sled. If you are uncomfortable riding your dual sport bike you might get cramped up on a sled. NOT trying to be a pessimist, physical conditioning WILL play a factor as well especially in fresh deep snow. Do get hold of someone close that may be willing to take you out for a ride in deep snow. Have seen people get into sledding this way with a not so good outcome, get well educated on riding and make sure you can ride where you live without riding on closed private land like timber company land or cattle ranch even though it's winter some land owners don't want the liability. I worked in the woods and the transition was still a challenge and I rode dirt bikes as well. Took a guy riding one time who bought a brand new sled and because he was fresh out of the woods thought it would be easy, soon found out how challenging it was. I know the newer machines are better at getting around but, look at some of the riding posts and vids to get a better picture of what it's like. It's great if your up for it, it's definitely a rush.
 
K
Nov 27, 2007
168
36
28
Washington
We have a place up out of Loomis with a similar situation. Please be careful as you learn. Ungroomed roads mean that it is easier to get stuck and not so many coming along to help.

On the other hand, it is really great to be away from everyone else more easily.

I am happy to help out if you are in the same area!
 
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