Lead Acid or Lithium Snow bike Battery?

[coryf89]

thats right, I got mine for the 520 big bore too as my first 520 kit died prematurely, I was told its because I was injecting it with 450 fueling and not 520. turned out not to be the case. id really like to sell this pr2 now though, sure left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Chadx]

I personally think it's important to keep engine temps above 160 degrees F. for more reasons than the overfueling one. Even if one has a pr2 to avoid low temp overfueling, one should absolutely still be running an engine blanket and keep 4-stroke engine temps 180 + as much as possible.

 

[AllHatNoCattle]

I personally think it's important to keep engine temps above 160 degrees F. for more reasons than not overfueling. Even if one has a pr2 to avoid low temp overfueling, one should absolutely still be running an engine blanket and keeping 4 stroke engine temps 180 + as much as possible.

I agree with you Chad. I had an engine blanket, but even with that my bike disliked it when I hit that cold deep powder. This year I bought that selkirk engine armor and I am hoping it will keep my temps more even.

 

[Niskibum]

I was calling around the stealerships today and was told the new stock lithium battery in the YZs are around $400! Has anyone tried the WPS or Firepower Lithiums?

 

[Chadx]

Wow! Well good. Then maybe i can sell my stock 2020 YZ battery that i just removed and will never use again. Ha. Plan to list it in the spring for the warm weather riders since no snowbikers seem to use the stock battery.

I squeezed in an earthx ETX12A. They run $169. I think the WPS are a fair bit cheaper. Don't know what model, but i know several people running WPS brand and they never seem to have problems, but i don'tknow how many years they get out of them.

There was a WPS on a used snowbike I bought and ran all of last season (was a 2013 Husaberg 501, so same as KTM 500) and that WPS performed great starting that bike down to some cold temps.

One time I had to do the lithium trick of crank for 5 seconds, wait 15 seconds, crank for 5, wait then it spun fast and fired. I didn't have a jump pack that trip and had stayed overnight in cooke city so bike sat out overnight. I think it was -10 or -15 that morning. So, that WPS worked good all that season and i have no idea how old it was or how it was treated.

That being said, for my new build, i went with the earthx. Might be $50 more than a WPS, but what i have into this build, that is just a blip. Ha.

 

[MountainRider05]

Wow! Well good. Then maybe i can sell my stock 2020 YZ battery that i just removed and will never use again. Ha. Plan to list it in the spring for the warm weather riders since no snowbikers seem to use the stock battery.

I squeezed in an earthx EXT12A. They run $169. I think the WPS are a fair bit cheaper. Don't know what model, but i know several people running WPS brand and they never seem to have problems, but i don'tknow how many years they get out of them.

There was a WPS on a used snowbike I bought and ran all of last season (was a 2013 Husaberg 501, so same as KTM 500) and that WPS performed great starting that bike down to some cold temps.

One time I had to do the lithium trick of crank for 5 seconds, wait 15 seconds, crank for 5, wait then it spun fast and fired. I didn't have a jump pack that trip and had stayed overnight in cooke city so bike sat out overnight. I think it was -10 or -15 that morning. So, that WPS worked good all that season and i have no idea how old it was or how it was treated.

That being said, for my new build, i went with the earthx. Might be $50 more than a WPS, but what i have into this build, that is just a blip. Ha.

about ready to bite the bullet and buy this EarthX battery also. Was waiting around for a sale on it also but that doesnt look like its gunna happen.

 

[JimBridger]

A couple hot hands air activated hand warmers strapped to my stock 18 yz battery worked great. Usually throw them on a couple hours before a ride. They last for 12 hrs, so I don't worry about battery temps all day.

I also have an earthx that I carry with me in case.

 

[Chadx]

about ready to bite the bullet and buy this EarthX battery also. Was waiting around for a sale on it also but that doesnt look like its gunna happen.

I looked and looked and never found a sale on Earthx anywhere. Best you can do is find free shipping. I went back and forth between the EarthX ETX12A and the ETZ5G (which is much smaller, less expensive and slightly more CCA), but in the end, I thought the ETX12A was best with the overdischarge protection...just in case. Maybe for the Excessive Cranking Protection as well, but that is mostly to prevent overheating which is typically not an issue with snowbiking. Went out for a full day of riding yesterday and the ETX12A fired everything up like a champ for the first start of the day and all day. Temps were not that cold, though. About 2 degrees for the first start of the day.

 

[HalfBrit]

I had my first ride of the season Sunday and I'm not sure if bike was charging the battery at all. I have a brand new WPS Lithium ion featherweight firepower battery. cranked over great for 10+ starts then just stopped clicking the solenoid. Rode the rest of the day kicking it. Put a trickle charger on it at 14.4v It won't take a charge. Just sits at 10.67v. Is this a defective battery or is discharging it to the point it won't crank in freezing temps enough to kill a Li battery?

 

[Chadx]

Li battery will usually be permanently damaged if they go flat even once. Some brands have a BMS (battery management system) that will not allow the battery to discharge below the critical point. If the voltage drops too low, they disconnect and act dead, but have prevented permanent damage. Don't know if WPS has a BMS with that capability. Check their website. If it has one, there is a procedure to wake it up.

Know that Li have a certain failure rate so contact the retailer or WPS immediately and see if they will evaluate it for replacement.
First, you'll want to check your bike charging system to see if it is at fault. Start it up and see what voltage the charging system gives off. If it is a bike caused issue, the battery damage will technically not be covered under warranty. They may or may not go above and beyond and do something for you. But test and get the facts and then contact them.

 

[Chadx]

Following up after a season of using the EarthX ETX12A on a 2020 YZ450F snowbike. Battery starting power, cold weather performance, quick recharging capability, and cranking power were all outstanding all season.

This summer, my stock battery on my 2008 Yamaha WR250R dual sport started to crank a little slow. Sidebare...yes, this lead acid battery was 12 years old with about 20,000 miles on the bike. I use a de-sulfphating Battery Minder brand smart charger on this and all my powersports, boat, and vehicle batteries except those that do not allow desuphation pulses such as AGM). I have many other batteries that lasted 6 - 8 years, but I sold those bikes/ATVs so never found out how long they lasted. This 12 year old bike was a good test. But, all good things come to an end so after 12 years, I needed a new battery.

I moved over the EarthX ETX12A to try it out figuring I'd move it back to the snowbike and get another Yuasa lead acid since I can get 10+ years out of them...but I just love this EarthX lithium so it's staying in the dual sport and I will buy another for the snowbike. As much as I like fiddling with smart chargers, it's been great not putting one on the snowbike and now not on the dual sport. Lead acids lose about 3% State of Charge per day in the hotter months (less in winter) but lithium hold their charge and you don't really want to store lithium batteries totally topped off, especially in the heat, to get max life out of them. Off season storage you really want lithium sitting at 40% - 60% State of Charge. So even though I have a lithium compatible Battery Tender, I really haven't used it. I check voltage with a voltmeter to to ensure the lithium batteries don't get too low in the off season and they don't really move any significant amount. I'd really prefer they were down in that 40 - 60% SOC but they sit way higher than that all off season. If I can get 5 or 7 years out of them, they will be worth it for me.

Any lithium with a Battery Management System (BMS), I don't see any reason they should not last that many years since those will protect the battery from charging when battery is below freezing, and protect from drawing to too low of state of charge and also have crank protection as to keep it from overheating. Time will tell, but wanted to report back after the first season of use.

 

[schwany31]

Why no 24v talk on here?
From my research, running 2 batteries one smaller and larger in series pretty much solves many starting issues...at least on the 2 strokes. (Thats my plan for this winter)

 

[Chadx]

Interesting theory. What is the long term impact to parts by running them way over voltage? Any experience doing this? Wiring seems complex as you'd need wired in series for the starter circuit and 12v volt everywhere else including to get them charged by the bike. And curious why you'd run two different sizes (which complicates things even more)?

My guess as to why no 24v talk is there is no need. 12v works great when one sizes the battery correctly. Interested in hearing your 24v ideas, experience and plan, though. How about starting a new thread for 24v discussion? I'd like to follow as you experiment.

 

[jrlastofthebreed]

Id be worried about a 24v conversion expesially in an EFI bike. I also have Trail tech and other electronics that are not rated at 24v.

 

[Chadx]

I assumed he'd run most circuits 12v and only the outbound starter circuit as 24v, but if he starts a new thread, he can elaborate on the theory behind even considering it.

 

[schwany31]

You run the second battery between the starter and solenoid. This does not affect your 12v system at all. Note, some people have wired it so it will still charge the second battery. To keep things simple, you don't have to. Most people are are going a while w/o the second battery dying. Just use leads from a trickle charger and charge when needed. You still have your main battery on the charging system.