Is the snowmobile industry going into terminal decline?

[suitcase]

Last season, I produced a snowmobile film titled 'Fourcast'. As an independent film producer, I was on the front lines, day-to-day with some of the best snowmobilers on the planet. Being in this position, one thing is becoming clearly apparent, there is very little new talent coming into this sport. This should be incredibly alarming to the snowmobile manufacturers and supporting parts and accessory companies as there is no future market for their products.



I will first start by saying that you film makers are to be comended for spending the time and money making films for us to whatch, and putting those 4 brand names out there for everyone to see. It is hard to believe that the manufactures don't do more. It would be hard to hide what brands your riders are riding, because we all know what the look like. I'm not sure but everytime we saddle up in a film we support the manufactures, there just is no way around it. I would have to say they are getting some real good free advertising. The same goes for the rider, we have our sleds built with motors and set ups clutching so on and so on, by our dealers. We then parade them around showing them off and what they are capeable of doing and talk our dealers up, and we get nothing more than a great running sled. I can feel the pain.

The statement above is the only one I don't agree with, is it that there is very little new talent, or is it that they can't afford to keep up with the current talent? Or is it you are not looking hard enough to find the new talent?

IMO we are own worst nightmare, we have asked for these sleds to be made with better suspention, tracks, lighter, more HP, so on and so on. And for the most part the manufactures have come throgh. Thus our new sleds are costing more and more, or it for sure feels like it. (or is it inflation ?)
I go and buy a new sled, and don't think to much about the cost, and that is due to one reason and one reason only. That is becuse I will not go one day in the winter without riding, it is my pastion as it is most everyone elses by the sounds of it in this forum, that is why we pay the money to do what we do. (Free ride, film, race pick your posion)

This is the future of our sport, my son at ten. I take him as much as I can, and he lives and breaths sleding just like I do.

 

[hurleyboarder21]

cool

my dad loves the sport but sure doesnt pay for my sleds... its called a job and a good work ethic

yup

 

[hurleyboarder21]

ttt

 

[xrated]

Haha, thanks. It might be a while, but that's the goal. I have more races to shoot and a lot of work ahead of me, but it's in the works !

just watched your HS vid....solid work. Really nice stuff, I need more so go ride!!!

 

[snowhawkaddict]

Yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHFK1yKfiGo



One ski is the way!:face-icon-small-hap

 

[CBX]

I'm going to be boo'ed out of the room for saying this, but here goes.

I'm huge fan of all yours guys movies. Veedy, Love your shows, Doc i really enjoy yours also. I spend hours watching Phelan's shows too. I know that sleds, film crews, HD cameras and charter helicopters dont run on hopes and dreams. It takes payola. And lots of it. But, as a business man, I do feel like this thread is a bit of a cry fest.

Everyone wants sponsorship these days. I'm just saying as a business manager, and getting ready to launch my own in the spring. I know it seems like your doing all the oems a favor by spotlighting their product, and yes your are in actuallity..... but, they don't owe anyone anything. This is capitalism. No body owes you or me chit. No matter how much you feel entitled to it. Or how much it seems like your helping them and not yourself.

There I said it. Let the hate begin. Just remember, that oem's are like any other deal. It may seem like there's money flowing like wild, but best belive it. Money, even for those with money like no other, it is finite, not infinite.

I agree with an earlier post. If i were in the movie biz,(which i'm not and i dont know a thing about it) i would be courting Netflix, hulu, and the likes something fierce. That is the future of content. I just signed up for netflix. So did 3 other of my redneck buddies.

Just a thought. I really love your guys movies. I know i sound a bit a hole ish. And i'm sorry for that. Money is tight these days. Thats just the way it is.

 

[Jorli]

CBX, you right, the OEs don't owe us anything, they can choose to spend their money anyway they like.....and they do just that, why on earth would you ever want to reciprocate support to those that support you,....and in that logic, lies the reason why there will never be a sequel to Fourcast.

Mission accomplished!!!! The OEs have collectively gotten what they want, a 65% decline in snowmobile builds over the last two years while the mountain biking had 11% growth per year over the last two years. How many core people (Not industry people) are actually able to make a living in this industry? I can't think of too many....If there was ever an example of a better way to market your industry, a look at these two might be worth while.

 

[AZ800]

There aren't hardly any younger people in my area riding. It is an expensive sport. Younger people can't afford new prices and it's easy to get soured on the maintenance of a used sled. After a sled gets 3 years old or older it seems like you start getting towed out of the mountains. Even our snowmobile club is dying out. Tough to find younger people to take over. If we don't it will die for sure. The way the forest service is going our kids will be lucky to ride like we do anyway.

You think maybe it's because the kids today are too lazy to wrench on sleds or have too many other electronic distractions (you tube, facebook, video games, all other computer crap)?
Maint and repairs is part of the game and sleds are way more relaible than 20+ yrs ago when I started riding. Hell, we were wrenching on those old piles of crap more than riding them, but that's what you got when you could only afford to spend $250 on a sled.
There's enough good used machines for sale in the under $2k price range (equivalent to the under $500 range when I was a kid) to supply every kid in snow country with one that wants to ride.
The majority of the riders are in the midwest and northeast anyway, so getting towed out of the mtns is not a big concern, IMO, got used to towing at least 1 sled home most of the time anyway! Yes, it's a different bag in the mtns, much more expensive sport than trail riding, from hauling your machine to the hill, to using more fuel, to more repairs from hitting landmines, to beating on the machines harder at 10kft WFO all day in the powder, etc.

It's just a lack of interest from the kids and their "want" to have the "cool stuff" like X games or whatever. I knew I couldn't afford the new stuff when I was a kid, but rather than go play Pac Man, I bought an old sled and kep it running.

 

[volcano buster]

I am seeing another trend that affects this sport. No smaller entry level sleds. When I was a kid, there were sleds ranging from 300cc to 500cc everywhere. Now for a kids sled I have to buy something that is 10-15 years old just to get them on what I would consider a safe size for them to get used to. To put a young kid on a highly capable 600 cc fuel injected monster is not a pleasant thought. As the 340cc's leave the market due to emissions and the next step being a 550 fanner, there isn't much to get a kid started before they are bigger. Then step up to a 600 liquid for quite a bit of money unless you can find some older iron with some life left in it.

Also, I like sled videos, but I don't think taking huge chute films to the mainstream is going to do any publicity magic for our sport.

 

[M-niner]

Don't get me wrong I love to watch some of the high dollar snowmobile films out there, but after hours of watching $20,000 plus turboed machines wheely up 800 ft chutes I find myself wanting to get back to reality. Honestly I would rather watch riders, like me, on stockers taking stabs at the Widowmaker or some other climb and wondering if the thing is gonna roll to the bottom or make it to the top and hearing the sled's motor pulling and getting weaker and the reaction of the buddies in the background and not some obnoxious music soundtrack. I find myself getting more of a kick out of the jack-asses like me who post their stuff on youtube. I really liked what Polaris did to market the new Pro's this year. You might call me a tool, but this marketing strategy suck me in and I pulled the trigger on a new one. I bet others on here did too. Interviews and videos of everyday normal riders testing the machines and put it up on youtube. Put some big-name riders on stock sleds and show me what the sled is capable of and you might get manufacturer support. Honestly watching a stud rider top a chute for the first time on some machine I can't identify at first glance because it is missing pieces to make it lighter and cost's more than a new car, really doesn't do much for me as far as wanting to run out and purchase that sled, it is just merely entertainment.

 

[hondakdx]

Prices

Snowmobiles are have always been OVERPRICED, UNRELIABLE, GAS GUZZLING JUNK, PERIOD! That's why the industry went BELLYUP in the early 80's! OVERPRICED BELTS, OVERPRICED TRACKS and most of all UNRELIABILITY! That's why them fools want to PEDDLE them for WHEELS! Nothing beats "WHEELS", PERIOD!

 

[cowboy181d]

Snowmobiles are have always been OVERPRICED, UNRELIABLE, GAS GUZZLING JUNK, PERIOD! That's why the industry went BELLYUP in the early 80's! OVERPRICED BELTS, OVERPRICED TRACKS and most of all UNRELIABILITY! That's why them fools want to PEDDLE them for WHEELS! Nothing beats "WHEELS", PERIOD!

Umm...wow....Not a good way to start out posting on snowest buddy.....:crazy:

But with that said thank your for randomly digging up a four year old post.I guess.... And yes snowmobiles are expensive. (oh and just about all of us use wheels but there on like trailers and the such...I tried putting wheels on my sled and don't ya' know them 24's just kept sinking in the snow....:face-icon-small-hap

 

[AZ800]

Snowmobiles are have always been OVERPRICED, UNRELIABLE, GAS GUZZLING JUNK, PERIOD! That's why the industry went BELLYUP in the early 80's! OVERPRICED BELTS, OVERPRICED TRACKS and most of all UNRELIABILITY! That's why them fools want to PEDDLE them for WHEELS! Nothing beats "WHEELS", PERIOD!

Yeah 4 year old thread and a response by a 4 year old tard!
Was fun reading again thou. Thanks

 

[suitcase]

I think its great to see a thread so old come back. just because its old does not mean we can't freshen it up some..

 

[Sledbrain2]

Isnt there a forecast2 and forecast3?

 

[Blown Motor]

We agree, digging up this old thread after nearly three years of growth in the industry....many of the companies out in the West have steadily grown and movies have continued to be made. It would be cool to see a synopsis of what thoughts are in present day.

And yes there has been a forecast 2 and 3. Could be wrong, but I believe there is no four and Jorli is just playing with film this year because he likes to do it. He has an edit under this section from this year already, but admits nothing amazing just throwing footage together.

 

[Jaynelson]

We agree, digging up this old thread after nearly three years of growth in the industry....many of the companies out in the West have steadily grown and movies have continued to be made. It would be cool to see a synopsis of what thoughts are in present day.

Agreed. With absolutely no empirical evidence to back it up....locally, I would say that sleds sales, usage, number of people involved in the sport, and sledding-based visits to town are WAY up in the last 2-3 years. Couldn't put a number on it, but it is very noticeable.

 

[Jorli]

Its funny to go back 4 years, 7 years, 10 years, etc. I'm always open to re-evaluating my perspectives, after the last four years, I haven't seen a decline in participation, at least in western markets. The machines have certainly gotten better, however the sport is expensive and the industry certainly plays to the 45 and up market far more than the 20s and 30s. From a film perspective, nothing has changed, there still isn't any manufacture support for independent media producers, which if you don't have a brand that produces hard/soft goods to promote, makes the production of content unviable as there isn't enough advertising dollars to cover the production costs, a situation I've found myself in on all three productions. I enjoy producing films, that is why there was a sequel to the original Fourcast and really wanted to do something different with Fourcast 3, didn't quite get there, had a ton of financial problems but overall the film turned out alright. I'm not making another film this year and won't do anymore until there is enough support from within the industry that it doesn't put me in the financial distress that I've previously experienced. I love the sport, I enjoy making films- even if I never do another sled movie, I likely make a couple short edits. Producing a full feature film is a massive amount of work and takes real money, if the productions are not appreciated by the industry you are promoting, then there is no point in doing them. It seems like the Swedish Ruff Riders scene is fairly healthy, however the North American side is status quo. My focus now is on developing SnowRide Adventures and making it the premiere guiding/technical instruction service for the sport.

 

[Blown Motor]

Jorli, do you think the Swedish Ruff Riders scene is healthy or appears to be because it is all filmed more or less in the same local spots and is free on youtube? In our humble opinion, pretty easy to generate stoke with free stuff, just look at the demand for stickers haha. We have watched several of the films, admittedly not this years yet, and they are always shot in the same areas. No traveling expenses etc (at least not huge expenses) just the same dudes building the same kickers. Not trying to negate or bash on that film, but nothing has ever really jumped out at me about those movies other than its a bunch of dudes having fun and doing what they love.....Thoughts??

 

[Jorli]

Jorli, do you think the Swedish Ruff Riders scene is healthy or appears to be because it is all filmed more or less in the same local spots and is free on youtube? In our humble opinion, pretty easy to generate stoke with free stuff, just look at the demand for stickers haha. We have watched several of the films, admittedly not this years yet, and they are always shot in the same areas. No traveling expenses etc (at least not huge expenses) just the same dudes building the same kickers. Not trying to negate or bash on that film, but nothing has ever really jumped out at me about those movies other than its a bunch of dudes having fun and doing what they love.....Thoughts??

Shane, I hear what your saying, however I'm sure it costs them money and time to do what they do. They probably don't pay for music which is a massive expense they can save, but they have helicopters and RC helicopters and there is certainly a lot of effort that goes into their shows. You'll notice they have the support of BRP and Polaris- at least the Swedish counterparts, they also have the Ruff Riders brand that produces soft goods. Their is scene is young and they have found a way to make it work with industry collusion. I haven't experienced that opportunity regardless of the distribution platform. At some point, you need the right people to "get it", I have yet to meet those people amongst the manufactures.