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Is the snowmobile industry going into terminal decline?

ruffryder

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Along the lines of snowmobile manufacturers supporting movie makers, when are the movie makers going to start supporting the sport via supporting quiet exhausts, avalanche safety, and respecting wilderness boundries?

Do you think it is a worth while endeavor? While it may not be cool, neither is providing an easy argument for supporters of non-motorized land restrictions.

Jorli, curious what your thoughts are on this..
 
A
Nov 27, 2007
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McCall Idaho
Along the lines of snowmobile manufacturers supporting movie makers, when are the movie makers going to start supporting the sport via supporting quiet exhausts, avalanche safety, and respecting wilderness boundries?

Do you think it is a worth while endeavor? While it may not be cool, neither is providing an easy argument for supporters of non-motorized land restrictions.

Jorli, curious what your thoughts are on this..

I will pitch in on this as well being another film maker.

This year, we were 100% legit, we had forest service filming permits the whole season and never went on an inch of land that is non motorized/wilderness. and permits are not cheap. Many film companies "fly under the radar" and dont bother.

I also agree on avalanche safety. Everyone in our film group wears beacons, has the burial gear, and most have avalanche packs.

We are trying to do it the right way. Everyone that we filmed with this year had a muffler on their turbos, or that meet F.S. regs. and we respect other users.

I'm hoping all this will pay off for next year, with possible factory support.
 
T

tranquillicer

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Nov 27, 2007
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Hmmmmm

Although there are some valid points here i will disagree with some as well.
1)sled prices have not gone crazy in the last ten yrs. We were seeing mega change in the product and inspite of that we did not see more than a couple grand increase in a similar class sled from 2003 to 2010 model year.($11,000 for an '03 Rev 800 and around $13,000 for a similar 800Rev shorty sled in 2010) Thats the years I'm most familiar with as far as new sled purchases are concerned. Prior to that, and I mean going back to the late 70's I did not buy new cause I couldn't afford new then. In fact, in 1973 it cost me about 8,000 bushels of wheat to buy a new combine and now it costs me about 100,000... and thats because wheat is the same price today as it was then.Now thats a bargain.
2)cost of sledding-I believe that after you have aquired the equipment the cost of sleding is not as bad as some would suggest. Compared to skiing for example, clothing is about the same and travel costs are similar although pulling a trailer(not a $20,000 enclosed either) is a bit more pricey. Hotels are the same and daily expenses are similar in that a lift ticket easily matches the fuel/oil you would burn in a sled on a day of mountain riding. Unless you want to compare sledding in the mountains to heli-skiing and then you would have to cough up the price of a new sled for each week of skiing. So..... if its the cost of the equipment that is the problem with sledding then just stick to skiing.
3) as was mentioned earlier in this thread, we ask for the world from sled builders and then we dont want to have to pay for it. If you can only afford to spend $5,000 on a sled then go find a $5,000 sled. I want, I want, I want....I want to live like a Philidelphia lawyer on a ditch diggers salary...well suck it up Scooter and stay in school.
The things we NEED are affordable, the things we WANT are what we get after we have the things we need. I think $30 for a 45min movie about sledding is pretty heafty when I can pay $25 for an "a" movie that cost some body hundreds of millions(in some cases) to make!!! I guess if you had billions of people around the world wanting to buy sleds or sled videos they would be cheaper too right? (don't take me to seriously on this part ok)
As far as new talent to the industry....well I'll bet its out there but the price of admission is a little high. As expensive as these new sleds are it seems foolish to take them out and perform in front of a camera solely for the purpose of exposure and yet risk everything you have invested in your equipment not to mention your well being. Plus, most of the younger riders out there that have the talent and the equipment likely have jobs/busineses and families too and thus, time is some what limited.
As for you movie "Fourcast" ...it was a must have for me after I saw the trailer and was indeed one of the best sled movies I've purchased. I'm no different than most who would purchase new movies every year....Much of the same stuff but still fun to watch for entertainment purposes.
As far as the sport succeeding, I think it has become a resounding success. So much so that we now have tens of thousands of us ripping up terrain all over northern NorthAmerica and pissing off all the tree huggers and animal rights groups and thus we are seeing all the negative publicity there, not to mention having sleds so well designed and built to the demands of the masses that we are able to access areas never dreamed of.
I think that what has happened to the sport of snowmobiling in the last 15yrs could be likened to what would happen to your favorite secret "fishin hole" if you put the co-ordinates on YouTube. Snowmobiling is not flying under the radar in my opinion and inspite of sleds costing a lot of $ they seem to be within reach of a lot of people and I see more of those people out sledding now than I have ever seen in my 42yrs of riding sleds.
 
V

Veedy

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Jan 27, 2004
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Thanks Jorli,
Your opinions are duly noted and I feel as if i'm standing shoulder to shoulder with you in this situation. Since 1998, I have been shooting (ahem, cough.. ) brand specific videos with absolutely no support from manufacturers. If they offer you a " commercial " rate on a sled, it's a joke. Any ski hill or farmer can get the same offer, which is weak at best.
The aftermarket industry has been the only ones to offer any kind of assistance to help a brother out. The cost of making films has gone from hobby to addiction in my case, and I have gone into a financial nightmare because of it. Each year, I spend ( borrow ) enough capitol to buy at least 3 and a half brand new sleds to produce Boost. People ask, why have you been riding the same sled for the past 3 years ? lol, I respond, because I can't seem to get the first one paid off ! sounds funny, but camera equipment, production costs, insurance, and operational costs are sucking me dry.. literally.

I'm so glad you came out with this letter of appeal. A lot of these points are some of which I didn't have the balls to ask year after year. Don't get me 100% wrong, I love to make films, it's a passion, but when will it end ? my kids need to eat and maybe have a secondary education someday, and all I seem to be doing is pizzing it into the wind. Every year I cuss and swear that i'm not going to do this again, and I seem to fall into the same groove time and time again. To who's benefit ??? well, yes, big blue.

I think, since I already have the footage for the 5th season of Boost, most of the legal paperwork is done, and the editors are on schedule, that this will be the last year I dedicate to this film series. The turbo sled will have to go up for sale to pay off a portion of my debt, and I will be looking for either a sponsored sled, or a junkyard beater that will get me up the hill.

It's really a shame. I have looked after so many people and their best interests, with little to no return. I think there have been many that have benefitted from my productions, and that's great for them, but this guy can't do it anymore, I have to start looking out for myself.

You know, it really wouldnt take much. I have seen manufacturers donate twice what I would require as a budget to some off the wall cause.

Maybe I will go film maxi-pad commercials... at least I know those arent going away any time soon.

I wanted to say, Jorli, I feel your frusterations 100%. Your not alone out there. We love this sport so much, and having the talent to portray it in such a beautiful form, but without support, there's a brick wall to firmly place your head against in a forward motion with rigerous return.

peace out.
Veedy.
 
A
Nov 27, 2007
1,231
103
63
McCall Idaho
Thanks Jorli,
Your opinions are duly noted and I feel as if i'm standing shoulder to shoulder with you in this situation. Since 1998, I have been shooting (ahem, cough.. ) brand specific videos with absolutely no support from manufacturers. If they offer you a " commercial " rate on a sled, it's a joke. Any ski hill or farmer can get the same offer, which is weak at best.
The aftermarket industry has been the only ones to offer any kind of assistance to help a brother out. The cost of making films has gone from hobby to addiction in my case, and I have gone into a financial nightmare because of it. Each year, I spend ( borrow ) enough capitol to buy at least 3 and a half brand new sleds to produce Boost. People ask, why have you been riding the same sled for the past 3 years ? lol, I respond, because I can't seem to get the first one paid off ! sounds funny, but camera equipment, production costs, insurance, and operational costs are sucking me dry.. literally.


I'm so glad you came out with this letter of appeal. A lot of these points are some of which I didn't have the balls to ask year after year. Don't get me 100% wrong, I love to make films, it's a passion, but when will it end ? my kids need to eat and maybe have a secondary education someday, and all I seem to be doing is pizzing it into the wind. Every year I cuss and swear that i'm not going to do this again, and I seem to fall into the same groove time and time again. To who's benefit ??? well, yes, big blue.

I think, since I already have the footage for the 5th season of Boost, most of the legal paperwork is done, and the editors are on schedule, that this will be the last year I dedicate to this film series. The turbo sled will have to go up for sale to pay off a portion of my debt, and I will be looking for either a sponsored sled, or a junkyard beater that will get me up the hill.

It's really a shame. I have looked after so many people and their best interests, with little to no return. I think there have been many that have benefitted from my productions, and that's great for them, but this guy can't do it anymore, I have to start looking out for myself.

You know, it really wouldnt take much. I have seen manufacturers donate twice what I would require as a budget to some off the wall cause.

Maybe I will go film maxi-pad commercials... at least I know those arent going away any time soon.

I wanted to say, Jorli, I feel your frusterations 100%. Your not alone out there. We love this sport so much, and having the talent to portray it in such a beautiful form, but without support, there's a brick wall to firmly place your head against in a forward motion with rigerous return.

peace out.
Veedy.

great post buddy, right there with you. except for the kids and family part. that would be tough. I will be sending you a message :face-icon-small-win
 

xrated

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very valid points.

I'm 26...love to sled, but I seriously doubt my kids will....I can't aford my one sle dit seems fv outfitting kids. Which is bad cause I love it. But it's cheaper to get them into board sports and dirt bikes....both of which have more support to my untrained eye.

I'll admit I love watching skiing, boarding, surfing and skating videos....no offense to the sled vids but they suck compared to what these other sports put out....some of you are getting damn close though.

I really do think the video guys need more support, I bet not one of them is making money of vidoes. Look at sledneck and 509, they have other product to sell and make money.

Just a thought, but how is it you can go to any video store and find skiing, skating, etc on the shelf? Or look at netflix sometime....tons of extreme sport videos. What would it take for sled videos to get on there? Talk about reaching an audience!!! If little old me in landlocked MN who doesn't ski, snowboard, skate or surf is always renting videos of those sports because I think the chit is impressive, why wouldn't some surfer in SoCal check out a guy climbing insane chutes in BC?
 
J

JustinB

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I agree I think the sport needs to be brought into plain view. I mean I am a young guy but buying sleds and maintaining breaks my bank every year. Also how many guy my age and younger are buying new sleds I ride an 02 DOO and i can barely afford to ride. Allot of the guys I ride with are still riding dads sleds.

I agree with allot said and I disagree with some of the statements. But as a life long rider I have always had to ride others sleds. But I will tell you this every sport is expensive. Growing up I played AAA Soccer at a very high level cost (my parents) 4 or 5K a year, I raced BMX at a very high level traveling allot cost where above 20k a year, I raced MX for years cost over 15k a year (not including buying new bikes). But I will tell you the manufactures didn't do squat in MX it was being sponsored by Fly, Oniel, Fox, Smith, Dragon, Red bull, Zip Fizz, etc that gave me the most help. I got free gear, I got free race gas, I got lots of red bull. I got paid once by Yamaha for winning a national event I got 1000 bucks Yeah! My other sponsors gave me allot more in free stuff the manufactures ever did.
In BMX the Teams really helped but again most of the money and help came from the smaller sponsors. But still even as Pros racing snowX, MX, BMX, or any event you make small amounts of money winning races you make more money with your contracts. The most money you make is on Endorsements for the many other sponsors.

I loved forecast My favorite movie to date and I see allot of your points. The problem is its the smaller companies that drive our sport not the big ones. Its all about getting WPS, Tucker Rocky, Fly, VP, Torqe, Red Bull, Rock Star, and other big name outside sponsors to drive your movies and in return it will drive our sport. Its all about cutting costs you can get free gear from HMK, Klim you can get parts from dealers or WPS or money from all. Again I see your point but even college sports drive off sponsorships from many many small companies.

I would love to help find sponsor for forecast 2. They are out there Look at all these 40 year olds with deep pockets. LOL It doesn't have to be only snowmobile companies to sponsor a snowmobile movie and you don't have to have money getting things free, cuts costs too. ( go to canon Show the cameras your are using like an ad) How about getting these POV camera companies to sponsor a film How many people on here are looking for one? If you can show a company a return they will Sponsor again with bigger benefits.
 
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backcountryislife

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For those that talk about sleds not being outrageously priced, think about this.

I've only been in the sport for a short time & have likely spent nearly $100k on sleds. NO other product is as unreliable or expensive to maintain. Compared to a bike, quad, side by side, car... whatever. For me a brand new sled is destroyed & nearly useless in just a few years without VERY serious rebuilds of major components.

I got 2k miles out of my 1000 motor & had to buy a whole new bottom end, if someone bought a bike & got that kind of mileage... they'd be PISSED! We look at a sled with 3000 miles as "high miles", that kind of mileage on a bike, quad, whatever... is a blip on the odometer.

Gas & hauling costs are way higher than any other sport I've been in also.
At one point I did a quick estimate & figured I spent around $18k+ (not taking into consideration serious repairs) on sleds a year.

All that said... this crackhead for one, will be buying another sled & then spending $7000+ to get it to the point where I enjoy riding it again next year!!!!

We make about $90k a year & sledding destroys us financially. Any other sport would be a joke in comparison. I for one have no idea how any young person could afford this sport.
 

christopher

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my dad loves the sport but sure doesnt pay for my sleds... its called a job and a good work ethic
As a "dad" with 4 kids, none of my kids can afford the sleds they are riding right now. And if it wasn't for me, and other dads, chances are pretty good, most of the "youth" that get into riding, wouldn't get into it to begin with.
 
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Jkinzer

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that just helps me have all my needed parts in stock! all the local guys that ride d8's love coming here, other than tunnel/bulkhead you can pretty much build one from scratch
 
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Jkinzer

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As a "dad" with 4 kids, none of my kids can afford the sleds they are riding right now. And if it wasn't for me, and other dads, chances are pretty good, most of the "youth" that get into riding, wouldn't get into it to begin with.

yeah i know what your saying there but my comment was towards the youth ages of 18-25... there are is a lot of "youth" around here where daddy still foots the bill
 

MORSNO

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yeah i know what your saying there but my comment was towards the youth ages of 18-25... there are is a lot of "youth" around here where daddy still foots the bill

It's also not as common to see guys in that age bracket with good work ethics. As you know it takes A LOT of work to afford this sport. Like backcountryislife mentioned earlier, sledding is a crazy expensive hobby compared to ATV's and bikes that these same manufacturers sell for a whole lot less money.
 
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