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    MH

dual helix vs track speed

HECKS

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I had a full day of tree riding the day before the 'said hill' climbing, and I adjusted my weights to hit my 8350 - 8450 with my pipe at elevation.
The RPM with the driven swap was a little higher but snow was a bit lighter then the day before.
As I said my last trip was 2 weeks ago , and was really good traction under 8" - 10" of fresh, and was running 8500 every pull with Dan's helix w/ stock secondary spring, but clutches were definetly warm !
 

snobyrd

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Nov 27, 2007
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In my experience with Dan's helix/spring combo was that it ran nice and cool. Tree riding was where it work well. I also have Dan's adj weigths and ran with his suggestions. Riding Revy area 5000-7000ft
On a steep climb in 1.5 - 2 ft of fresh is where I found it lacked with the 140/200 spring. I switch secondary's with a buddy on the hill and ran the stock str 40 and bested my previous mark by 40 - 50 ft in fresh track. I'm interest to see what the stiffer stock spring will be like on this helix. Last trip out the snow was setup to much to get a true test.
Next trip I will be packing helix's to swap on the hill.
This was on a 800 or 850?
850 uses a 42, 800 uses 40, they both use 155/222 springs.
 

HECKS

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Whoops my bad, I just realized I'm 50cc short to be posting in this section 🙊
800 Axys 3" PC.
Yes the 850's run a 42.
Just gearing down again at the moment to a 17/46, so we will see how this works out.
Last trip out I ran 19/46 which worked well.
 

snobyrd

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This was a email I sent to slp , my question is at the bottom and thier response is at the top.

Hello,



The load from heal weight verses helix is different so you cannot accomplish as much efficiency with the helix otherwise developing the MTX and Magnum Force would not have been worthwhile.

On the most part all weight available other than ours resemble the OEM profile which was originally designed for low end torque triples. They will not load a high torque twin enough to match the torque curve real well no matter what you do with the helix.

The mass distribution and contour is a little different between the MTX and Magnum Force. Even though the MTX is still widely used and preferred the Magnum Force is the latest technology and efficiency.

Increasing the initial angle on the helix will increase load low to mid which the weights do to but the weights reduce a huge amount of belt slippage which the helix and conventional weights tend to make worse. Comparing “best” setups on an 800 both ways the Mag Force is 3-5 lengths faster depending on conditions. That is accomplished by more belt traction (less slippage) and matching the torque curve better.



Thanks



Starting Line Products

743 E Iona Rd

Idaho Falls, Idaho 83401

208-529-0244





Hi

Do you ever use mtx weights comboed with a progressive helix like a 60/42, does the extra heal weight compensate for a few deg meaning ie, be able to use a 58/42 with mtx and 60/42 without?

Or do these do 2 sperate things? Both load the motor correct,?

Second question, are the new magnum weights the same profile and heal weight as the original mtx weights?

Tks for your time.

Jeff

jacey welding ltd
 

Sheetmetalfab

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This was a email I sent to slp , my question is at the bottom and thier response is at the top.

Hello,



The load from heal weight verses helix is different so you cannot accomplish as much efficiency with the helix otherwise developing the MTX and Magnum Force would not have been worthwhile.

On the most part all weight available other than ours resemble the OEM profile which was originally designed for low end torque triples. They will not load a high torque twin enough to match the torque curve real well no matter what you do with the helix.

The mass distribution and contour is a little different between the MTX and Magnum Force. Even though the MTX is still widely used and preferred the Magnum Force is the latest technology and efficiency.

Increasing the initial angle on the helix will increase load low to mid which the weights do to but the weights reduce a huge amount of belt slippage which the helix and conventional weights tend to make worse. Comparing “best” setups on an 800 both ways the Mag Force is 3-5 lengths faster depending on conditions. That is accomplished by more belt traction (less slippage) and matching the torque curve better.



Thanks



Starting Line Products

743 E Iona Rd

Idaho Falls, Idaho 83401

208-529-0244





Hi

Do you ever use mtx weights comboed with a progressive helix like a 60/42, does the extra heal weight compensate for a few deg meaning ie, be able to use a 58/42 with mtx and 60/42 without?

Or do these do 2 sperate things? Both load the motor correct,?

Second question, are the new magnum weights the same profile and heal weight as the original mtx weights?

Tks for your time.

Jeff

jacey welding ltd
fyi the magnum force have a lower heel HEIGHT than the mtx and require different shims under the spider.

they act very similar in shift characteristics to the mtx when the magnum force are fully loaded. However it’s hard to load the “heel” heavy on the magnum force if you are running in the lower end of the adjustment range.

I really see two methods of clutching out there.

trs, indydan style, low helix angles, light springs, light weights (not heel heavy)
(works with stock gearing or low gearing regardless, long lasting clutch wear items)


MDS, Carls cycle, SLP, A2d style, steep helix, stiffer springs, heel heavy weights.
(is favored by super low gearing/ more prone to overrev, DET and clutch wear.
 

snobyrd

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Nov 27, 2007
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northeast bc
I notice slp generally use stock sec springs and stk helix on stock or close to stock sleds combined with thier weights.
All my other clutching parts that I have collected are from some of those companies mentioned and lasted only one ride or so cause I hated them.
I have never taken the trs, Indy dan clutching journey, but I'm open to the idea if they could come up with a recipe that would work for my current application.
 

Sheetmetalfab

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I notice slp generally use stock sec springs and stk helix on stock or close to stock sleds combined with thier weights.
All my other clutching parts that I have collected are from some of those companies mentioned and lasted only one ride or so cause I hated them.
I have never taken the trs, Indy dan clutching journey, but I'm open to the idea if they could come up with a recipe that would work for my current application.
personally I really doubted theTRS / Indydan method.

however i was able to ride a sled for 4 days with ID clutching and then went back to back with our previous best setup on the other method.

wow that was an eye opener.

i’m 60# heavier than my buddy and it was obvious to see how much better the sled i was on did than his.
trackspeed, rpm recovery after a change in terrain, belt heat etc.

(Both 2016 800 162x3 slp pipes with the clutching being the only difference. Running the same rpm)
 

HECKS

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it’s his standard kit with 2 grams more per arm in the tip than with stock pipe.
Sheetmetal, Question for you....are you running Dan's helix as well ?
I have the V5 weights and Dan sent them loaded 3-2-0-2 = 67g for my pipe set-up. So you loaded the tips up more for belt squeeze or RPM ?
I scaled the magnets at 1.25g each. And the base weight at 58.6g each.
 

TRS

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I notice slp generally use stock sec springs and stk helix on stock or close to stock sleds combined with thier weights.
All my other clutching parts that I have collected are from some of those companies mentioned and lasted only one ride or so cause I hated them.
I have never taken the trs, Indy dan clutching journey, but I'm open to the idea if they could come up with a recipe that would work for my current application.
And what would that be????
 

Sheetmetalfab

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Sheetmetal, Question for you....are you running Dan's helix as well ?
I have the V5 weights and Dan sent them loaded 3-2-0-2 = 67g for my pipe set-up. So you loaded the tips up more for belt squeeze or RPM ?
I scaled the magnets at 1.25g each. And the base weight at 58.6g each.
It’s actually my brothers spare sled.
Mountain 1 helix
ID recommended springs.

V5 weights with a smattering of magnets.

Dans recommendations are usually really close.

Stock pipe got removed for a buddy going turbo.

Rpms picked up enough with the SLP pipe for an additional tip weight magnet on each arm.
 

HECKS

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Right on. I took a digital angle finder against a traced copy of ID's helix.
Tough to get measurements on a full progressive, but looks like it finishes off around a 32 deg. I beleive I read somewhere the MTN#1 starts at 52 ?!
I had belt slipping high in the primary (on great traction snow) but rev's were down a bit too.
 

Sheetmetalfab

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Right on. I took a digital angle finder against a traced copy of ID's helix.
Tough to get measurements on a full progressive, but looks like it finishes off around a 32 deg. I beleive I read somewhere the MTN#1 starts at 52 ?!
I had belt slipping high in the primary (on great traction snow) but rev's were down a bit too.
I’ve had a similar Situation and the slipping created heat which lowered top rpm.

Moving weight from heel to tip without decreasing overall weight helped.
 
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