2016 Clutching for high elevation - 9000 to 11000

[Err]

So, I've got myself this shiny new '16 162 LE and I'm just loving it so far. I've got right about 200 miles on it now so she should be all broke in. I went out this morning and pulled some big'ish hills at 10,000' and could only get to 7700 RPMs . So, I need to sort the clutches. Looking around, I'm seeing CO2.0 and Wyobo playing with different options but I get the feeling that we're still in experimental phase. Any recommendations for a basic spring/weight swap to get me moving in the right direction until the aftermarket catches up? Am I missing an obvious well-vetted, well performing clutch kit offering?

BTW, climbing on hills that I've been playing on for years, it's incredible what this sled will do even with clutching that far off. What a beast!


Starting to compile a quick reference based on all the replies in this thread.

Stock Configuration
Belt: 084
Weights:
Primary Spring:
Secondary Spring:
Helix: 48º (need to verify)
Gearing: 19-50


SW user recommended setups
Belt: 083


Vendor setups
Bikeman - Available 2/15
Speedwerx - TBD
Racinstation - TBD

 

[Chewy22]

16 153 LE - This is what I have right now. At 9,000 to 10,000 I'm holding at 8020/8050 in powder climbs

Primary - MDS weights with drilled screw and one washer in the tip, black Pol primary spring Steve sends with the weights.
Secondary - 45 degree helix and some orange spring, it's stiffer then the stock spring (Eric at Racnstation sent me the secondary parts)

I have a TKI belt drive with 26/63 pulleys; pretty close to the same ratio as 20/49 with gears/chain

I'm happy with this setup for now; for me its so much better then the stock setup.

I have rode wyo's sled and it rips but yes he's still playing around with different gear ratios and secondary setups.

 

[Dam Dave]

16 153 LE - This is what I have right now. At 9,000 to 10,000 I'm holding at 8020/8050 in powder climbs

Primary - MDS weights with drilled screw and one washer in the tip, black Pol primary spring Steve sends with the weights.
Secondary - 45 degree helix and some orange spring, it's stiffer then the stock spring (Eric at Racnstation sent me the secondary parts)

I have a TKI belt drive with 26/63 pulleys; pretty close to the same ratio as 20/49 with gears/chain

I'm happy with this setup for now; for me its so much better then the stock setup.

I have rode wyo's sled and it rips but yes he's still playing around with different gear ratios and secondary setups.

What belt, 083 or 084?

 

[Chewy22]

What belt, 083 or 084?

083

 

[Err]

Thanks chewy

By Steve, you mean? Steve @ MDS? Sorry, playing catch-up

 

[arctic2009]

So, I've got myself this shiny new '16 162 LE and I'm just loving it so far. I've got right about 200 miles on it now so she should be all broke in. I went out this morning and pulled some big'ish hills at 10,000' and could only get to 7700 RPMs . So, I need to sort the clutches. Looking around, I'm seeing CO2.0 and Wyobo playing with different options but I get the feeling that we're still in experimental phase. Any recommendations for a basic spring/weight swap to get me moving in the right direction until the aftermarket catches up? Am I missing an obvious well-vetted, well performing clutch kit offering?

BTW, climbing on hills that I've been playing on for years, it's incredible what this sled will do even with clutching that far off. What a beast!

If you like the engagement and shift curve, Just drop weight until you get what rpm you're looking for. No sense in spending a bunch of money on springs and weights if you are just looking to get the right RPM at the moment. If you are getting consistent 7700 max, try 4-5 grams lighter.

 

[Chewy22]

Thanks chewy

By Steve, you mean? Steve @ MDS? Sorry, playing catch-up

Yep.

 

[Dam Dave]

If you like the engagement and shift curve, Just drop weight until you get what rpm you're looking for. No sense in spending a bunch of money on springs and weights if you are just looking to get the right RPM at the moment. If you are getting consistent 7700 max, try 4-5 grams lighter.

Stock Helix is too much at 10K

 

[BlueDevil]

Yeah backing off on the helix seems to help a lot

 

[CO 2.0]

What weights are in it now? I see a lot of dealers setting them up with 66g. I'd go 64g. Put a stiffer primary spring in it for sure. Either 122/285 or 120/310 speedwerx spring with their spring adapter for the spider side. I'd run a 43 or 40 helix

 

[Err]

I believe it has the factory spec weights in it still.

 

[Dam Dave]

I believe it has the factory spec weights in it still.

nothing in stock clutching will work above 10K

 

[WyoBoy1000]

How far do you want to go,

Stock gears with 43* helix and mds weights is a great setup to start with. One reason is one you have weights you will never change them, just adjust them for the setup.

I'm geared way up now with a 40* and am playing with weights and springs, the stock secondary spring is sacked out so I'm putting in a new one to get a base line. Hopefully I will be able to add weight in the middle and tip and get an even better pull.

The 43 works, the 48 doesn't

 

[Err]

CO2.0 & Wyoboy1000

Thanks for this info. I do a lot of wrenching but I've let my dealer handled clutches in the past, partly because being on Poo and being just up the road from Tri-City, I had experts in the neighborhood who had me dialed. No fiddling, more riding.

That said, it looks like with the new clutches that there really aren't any well refined "kits" yet and now is a great time for me to start diving in to the world of clutching.

Just to baseline can anyone tell me what the stock values are for:
weights
primary spring
helix
secondary spring

I think I might pickup a set of MDS weights and throw them in. Sounds like I should follow that quickly with a different primary spring and then a 40º or 43º helix (Noting Chewy is running a 45º but not running stock gearing).

As far as the actual install, I looked at a youtube vid of the weights install process, looks rather simple. The primary spring looks fairly straight forward, hold the primary, loosen the main bolt, mark the alignment between the cover and the spider (not sure if that's the right terminology) then slowly loosen the cover bolts until it's off, swap out spring, reassemble. Torque values?

Any great write-ups on all this that anyone can link me to?


WyoBoy - to answer your question on how far I want to take it. For now, I'd mostly like to get it into the right RPM range. Down the road, I'd like to get it totally dialed but not sure I want to be the guy on the sharp-end figuring this all out.

 

[RACINSTATION]

I would say we have refined kits available. We have many, many happy clutched up 2016 sleds out on the snow.

 

[Err]

I would say we have refined kits available. We have many, many happy clutched up 2016 sleds out on the snow.

Very cool. What do you recommend for my elevation?

 

[CO 2.0]

I should note im running 20 49 gearing to load the motor more. Ran 21 49 but secondary was pretty hot. Gonna try the 40 helix and a stiffer secondary spring this weekend. I think my stock secondary spring is sacking out

 

[Err]

I should note im running 20 49 gearing to load the motor more. Ran 21 49 but secondary was pretty hot. Gonna try the 40 helix and a stiffer secondary spring this weekend. I think my stock secondary spring is sacking out

Interesting, what is stock gearing? Are you still running a chain or are you running a belt drive?

 

[CO 2.0]

19 50 is stock. I run the chaincase. Id do 20 49 if running chaincase. 21 49 can be done with stock chain but its extremely tight to get the gears and chain to slide on, and you have to go with a manual tensioner, as the stock auto tensioner doesnt have enough adjustment in it

 

[d1100t]

Belt drive parts.

Sorry for high jacking this thread.
I should have started a new one.
Does anyone know if the sprockets and belts are all the same distance from the inside of the chain case? In other words would it be possible to mix and match sprockets and components from different kits and have everything line up? I have a C3 kit on my 2012 M1100T and was wondering if TKI sprockets would fit?