'14 800 Pro wont idle

[gtwitch]

Rough low Idle problem

I had an idle issue four years ago on a 700 Dragon and chased it most of that winter and no reverse due to that low/rough idle. I had to check the injectors (they were good), had to check for air/vac leaks (none), checked ignition system (all good), thhought it might something to do with Exhaust valves ( no, all ok here). I was really pulling my hair out and was frustrated. As a wild guess, I thought I would check the reed valves and pulled them out, Well, I found a plastic pull rivet tale stuck under one reed leaf! When the dealer prep on the machine included the powder vents and better air intake issues (SLP) kit some of the plastic rivets used to put the powder vents on went into the air box and one of these rivet tails made its way (two years later) to the reeds. In this trek into the reeds I also found two more rivet tales in the air box and I really put a Red Face on the dealer that had done the prep. So just more to think about.
gtwitch in wyoming

 

[crashnbash]

I said it wasn't easy to properly read a plug. When a plug looses spark it slowly gets cleaned by the unburned fuel running through the cylinder, so aside from looking fouled it also takes on a slightly "washed off" look.
Now you said the the plugs both come out tan, is one side slightly lighter than the other? This may point to a injector failing electrically.
Another question is what is the actual engine timing when the problem occurs? Look at the ground strap of the spark plugs and see if the timing marks are even, if not, you may have a slightly out of phase crank.

 

[CO Powder]

Fuel injectors tested for leaking yesterday, passed no problems.

If an injector was failing electrically it would set a code in the computer.

Exhaust temp sensor was also replaced.

I will get it on the snow this weekend and see if any of this has worked. It did not idle perfectly when first started but cleared with a couple throttle blips and didn't faulter after that.

I seriously doubt it is fixed but I will give it a go.

Now if this hasn't fixed the problem the dealer wants to remove all of the new parts they threw at it and re-install all my original parts. That seems strange to me, what are they going to do with are bunch of used parts? Why would you take the time to pull all of them?

Tech said he was stumped and maybe it is time for another set of eyes on it??? This is exactly what my concern was, they can't figure it out, so it is on me, again, to haul it somewhere else? Freaking Polaris better conjure up some kind of screaming offer for me pretty soon, this is ridiculous....

 

[crashnbash]

Ecm will only detect open or shorts, not high resistance. The ecm will also only set a fault when a sensor shows data outside its pre-programmed window of acceptable data (when a temp sender reads 80 deg and the actual temp at the sender is 120 deg). With that said has anyone verified that the ecm inputs are all correct. Has the crank sensor been checked, has the flywheel been removed to verify that the key has not sheared?

 

[Reg2view]

Now if this hasn't fixed the problem the dealer wants to remove all of the new parts they threw at it and re-install all my original parts. That seems strange to me, what are they going to do with are bunch of used parts? Why would you take the time to pull all of them?

If they've filed the warranty reimbursement, they can use them on someone else's sled, likely sold as new. If poo gets the old parts back and finds nothing wrong with them, they could also dock the dealer. You are caught in the middle. Tell them to pound sand, particularly since they haven't been able to fix your issue. How much did you get for the downtime, trips to the dealer, your time? Nada. Keep the new parts on the sled.

 

[snowmobiler]

trade that pos in.LOL

 

[CO Powder]

If they've filed the warranty reimbursement, they can use them on someone else's sled, likely sold as new. If poo gets the old parts back and finds nothing wrong with them, they could also dock the dealer. You are caught in the middle. Tell them to pound sand, particularly since they haven't been able to fix your issue. How much did you get for the downtime, trips to the dealer, your time? Nada. Keep the new parts on the sled.

I could just not take it back, not much they could do. Burning this bridge though would be a huge hassle in the long run. The next closest, but service incompetent dealer is maybe twice as far, an hour each way. The next closest, possibly competent dealers are 1.5 hrs drive each way.

Trade in, is something that is going to happen. My current dealer isn't going to want it on trade, so the only thing I might buy from them is oil anyway. I will probably have to drive hours to make a decent deal, more time and expense...

 

[CO Powder]

Ecm will only detect open or shorts, not high resistance. The ecm will also only set a fault when a sensor shows data outside its pre-programmed window of acceptable data (when a temp sender reads 80 deg and the actual temp at the sender is 120 deg). With that said has anyone verified that the ecm inputs are all correct. Has the crank sensor been checked, has the flywheel been removed to verify that the key has not sheared?

I think you misunderstand. The sled runs, it runs great once you get it off idle. I think you are really reaching with out of phase cranks and sheared keyways.

You also do not understand my resolve to NOT become the mechanic on this sled. I paid for that to be someone else's problem. I do not work at the dealership nor hold the techs weenie, when he has too pee, so I am not aware of him removing the crank or flywheel. Maybe you are right but, I doubt it. Thanks for the comments.

 

[crashnbash]

Your first post said it ran 8300 on one pull, then 6800 the next, either way then, I suggest you haul it to another dealer who is better with diagnostics.
Good luck trading the sled in if it doesn't idle well. That will clue any dealer into looking closer at it, and if your current dealer has been filing warranty claims with polaris there will be a history of this problem for all dealers to see when they check the sleds history.

 

[CO Powder]

Your first post said it ran 8300 on one pull, then 6800 the next, either way then, I suggest you haul it to another dealer who is better with diagnostics.
Good luck trading the sled in if it doesn't idle well. That will clue any dealer into looking closer at it, and if your current dealer has been filing warranty claims with polaris there will be a history of this problem for all dealers to see when they check the sleds history.

Thanks for your suggestions.... Do I have to get rude or will you just ignore my thread from now on please? You are not helping. I know you think you are really really smart and have the answers but, they are not the ones I am interested in, so thanks anyway.

This machine is under Polaris factory warranty. I WILL get satisfaction on this, you just wait and see...

 

[crashnbash]

Consider it ignored from here on out, and yes I must be smart when it come to motors since I have made quite a good living doing so for over fifteen years, including snowmobiles for five of those.
It does seem however that you are less concerned about getting your sled fixed and more about whining about since this is the second thread about the same thing.

Your responses are why many have quit posting advice when someone needs help. Just because you can't understand why those suggestions could cause your problem is no reason to imply that the person offering advice has no clue.

 

[CO Powder]

Consider it ignored from here on out, and yes I must be smart when it come to motors since I have made quite a good living doing so for over fifteen years, including snowmobiles for five of those.
It does seem however that you are less concerned about getting your sled fixed and more about whining about since this is the second thread about the same thing.

Your responses are why many have quit posting advice when someone needs help. Just because you can't understand why those suggestions could cause your problem is no reason to imply that the person offering advice has no clue.

It isn't that... I really do not think you have a clue, that's all.

I started a second thread because the sled isn't fixed. It is an attempt to get it fixed. The dealer simply is not going to check things like crank phase, just isn't going to happen so why bother with ridiculous suggestions? That is what I am trying to avoid and, "out there" suggestions are all that you have brought...

 

[CO Powder]

So the results of yesterdays ride are much he same as they have been for a few months now... Sometimes it idles just right, most of the time it doesn't.

I cleaned the clutches, greased the skid and gave it a once over before loading up. Idled perfectly on start up, warmed up without missing a beat. I loaded it up with no issues... maybe they did get it fixed? Naaaa. 20 minutes later I started it up and it was back to running at ~1400 rpm.

On the mountain t was the same old thing, bad idle on every re-start. Once in a while it would hold 1800 rpm after a good romp but after a few seconds it always reverts back to a lumpy low idle condition.

New additions to the parts list included an exhaust sensor last week.

No real improvements other than my clutch maint seemed to cure the rpm differences while climbing. The sled runs right with my buddys '13 Pro with the MTNTeK fix kit, and hi comp head, just can't get it to idle correctly.

It did light the engine light on the dash too, so I suppose there is a stored code... Didn't change how it ran at all.

 

[gtwitch]

COPowder, Did any Service Professional at the dealer look at the Reeds??? Like I have already said I had a similar idlle problem and would run fine at top and mid range and turned out there was a reed petal being held partially open by a piece of FOD. Just trying to help by suggesting where I have found a problem in the past!!!
gtwitch in wyoming

 

[allarson]

the throtle postion sensor may be a little off a ohm meter is required for this setting thats on efi carbs

 

[CO Powder]

I am pretty sure they have not checked the reeds. I have spoken to Polaris, the dealer is going to give it one more shot before it goes to another dealer. They claim they have one more thing to check. I think they probably just want to pull parts...

I also still think it is the TPS adjustment. They use their "digital wrench" to set the tps and I do not think enough care and precision has been lavished on this process, but I could be wrong.

 

[CO Powder]

The dealer is going to get in there and check the reeds out this week, last thing they can think of...

 

[CO Powder]

Well I dropped it off Tues morning. I called Thurs afternoon, tech was gone, nobody knew anything. I picked it up Friday and took it home intending to ride this weekend (today).

I figured I would pull the code that set the check engine light. I was not able to get that to work so I pulled the side panels and hood... The supposedly replaced exhaust sensor was not in the sled and the connector cover near the primary clutch was open with wires hanging out all over. This was last weeks screw up...

So, no surprise that the CEL was on last weekend.

I guess the next step is going to be a long drive to try another dealer. If it was running decent at this point, it would probably be a trip to the dealer of another brand to jump ship.

 

[cascadesnowjunky]

Why jump ship to another brand? It sounds to me that your dealer is far less than par when it comes to service. I believe you are just as much to blame for giving them so many chances and so many screw ups, you come on here asking for help and advise but basically are unwilling to try anything. You keep saying you want it to be fixed under warranty, that is fine but why would you come on here wasting peoples time with suggestions if you have no intent on trying anything. I will agree some of the suggestions are pretty far fetched but always helpful in eliminating possible issues. Good luck, hope you figure it out soon. Nobody like having sled trouble when the snow flies.

 

[CO Powder]

Why jump ship to another brand? It sounds to me that your dealer is far less than par when it comes to service. I believe you are just as much to blame for giving them so many chances and so many screw ups, you come on here asking for help and advise but basically are unwilling to try anything. You keep saying you want it to be fixed under warranty, that is fine but why would you come on here wasting peoples time with suggestions if you have no intent on trying anything. I will agree some of the suggestions are pretty far fetched but always helpful in eliminating possible issues. Good luck, hope you figure it out soon. Nobody like having sled trouble when the snow flies.

WTF are you talking about? just about EVERY suggestion made here has been tried. I have skipped the out of phase crank and broken keyway because those are highly unlikely and require lot of teardown, which Polaris isn't going to pay the dealer to do.

It is MY fault for taking it back to be fixed? That is retarded, you better get your head checked....

Why jump ship? Because Polaris doesn't care that my sled is fubar. Take it to another dealer, is the best offer they have made thus far. Otherwise, all I get from the clowns at Polaris industries is that they are sorry... Sorry doesn't solve the problem, which I am clearly trying to do by making videos, soliciting suggestions and taking it to a factory authorized service center and having it worked on by the factory certified techs.

But yeah, I can see how you would think this was my fault....

It is already a 45 min each way drive to the closest dealer. The next closest is almost double that. If I have to make a three hour round trip for service and supplies, I will probably buy another brand with a competent dealer that is closer. The Pro is great but my buddies on Doo's look like they are having just as much fun, without the hassles I am having, hassles caused directly by Polaris corporate policy. I hope yours all run well. I realize this one is one of the few but, I think it makes or breaks you in how you handle the few...