Best Route to a Snowbike

andyemory · Feb 5, 2019

Hey All,

New to the forum here but I've been reading all I can. There is certainly a wealth of knowledge on here.

My last bike was a DRZ400E that I got rid of when we moved to CA since practically no one in CA has the time or money to ride anyway! We have since moved to the Park City, UT area and I am really itching to get back into dirt biking.

I was all set on what bike I was going to get until I demoed a snowbike two weeks ago and that has completely changed everything. It was my first experience on one and I now see, without a doubt, snowbiking in my future. I rode the Yeti 137 kit mounted to a CRF450R. Just for reference, I'm a big guy, 6'3" and around 225lbs. We are at altitude here. Most of the dirt riding is single track and we get some deep snow here too.

It seems like the KTM 300's are the thing here in UT for the single track dirt riding and that is what I was set on getting. But with snowbiking in mind, I'm not sure anymore. It seems like most people end up with a dedicated snow bike rather than switching back and forth each year. Is that right? If that is the case, I see myself likely ending up with a dedicated dirt bike and a dedicated snow bike. Here are the two paths I see to getting there:

1) Get the bike I want for dirt, this would probably be a KTM 300, asI will likely spend more days on the dirt than on the snow each year anyway (there are guys up here that take trips down south for dirt riding throughout winter). While enjoying the dirt, I would plan for a dedicated snow bike set up that I'll get a couple of years down the road. In the mean time, there is a local company that rents snow bikes that I could use to satisfy the snow biking itch. I would also imagine that the next couple of years will continue to see big advances in snowbike tech and maybe the waiting would be good before I pull the trigger on my own kit anyway.

or

2) Get a bike that would make a good snow bike now, get a snowbike kit now, and convert back and forth for a few years, with minimal mods, until I buy a dedicated dirt bike leaving this first bike as the dedicated snow bike. This would likely be a 450, which sounds like it wouldn't be ideal for the dirt riding around here, but it would at least get me on the dirt and the snow. From what I've read, it seems like the YZ450FX would work for this scenario.

I'd imagine there are quite a few that have been in this situation before. What path did you choose and would you recommend that route? Do I make a compromise now on the dirt riding because I'm planning to use the bike for a future snow bike build or do I make a compromise on the snow riding now and wait to get a dedicated bike to build up?

Are there other options I'm not thinking of? Is there a bike that would be good on single track and have enough power to work as a snow bike for a big guy like me? From what I've read, I don't think the 300 would fit that bill. I've also read recommendations that the KTM 500 works well for both snow and dirt, but if a 450 is tough on the single track, wouldn't the 500 be even tougher?

What do you all think? Thanks!

bighuckpunk · Feb 5, 2019

450exc-f factory edition! Ride on snow, street (to the trails) and dirt.

Norma Stitz · Feb 5, 2019

Buy a used snow bike already set up for around 7-8k and ride it. Then buy a dirt bike and ride that. If you try to make one bike work for both you’ll probably end up missing some days during the crossover seasons. YMMV

jmetteer · Feb 5, 2019

I spent my first two snow seasons switching my 500exc between snow and dirt. I missed some snow days last spring because I switched back to dual sport mode for a trip to Arizona in March. This year I bought an inexpensive low hour 2014.5 KTM 450 SXF Factory Edition to set up as a permanent snow bike.

If I could only have one bike it would be a 500exc or FE501, it will do everything. It might not do the extreme single track as well as a 250/300 smoker but it will do it and still put a smile on your face.

Here is a quick video of my first snow ride this season on the 500 chasing my friend on his 501. The bikes are extremely capable.

https://youtu.be/mBLIpLug7wg

Luckily I am able to store multiple bikes so I get the best of both worlds.

Later,

Jake Metteer

wwillf01 · Feb 5, 2019

Live in Utah ... For sure a 2 stroke is a pain to swap back and forth with all the riding you can do that crosses over throughout the season if it's a carby... Maybe one month is a no wheel month?.... Get a fuel injected 2 stroke then everything is easy swapping back and forth... Or 4 stroke... But usually you are committed then once switched you are committed for the season... I would get a combo or pick a cheaper option for wheels like a yz250.... Or the other way around... Once a bike is set right for snowbiking it really is a pain in the arse to swap. Keep in mind you can ride pretty deep into winter and early in spring in the desert... And then the high Uintas you can ride tracks through June...

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powdermuncher · Feb 5, 2019

If it has to be just one bike Beta 500 all the way best all around and awesome power without mods. Good as it gets for a single track four stroke that can easy pull a track kit with no mod. For me a 2 stroke dirt bike and a dedicated snow bike in Uta for sure. I ride a Xcw 250 for dirt and a yz450 2014 on my snow bike. Even up here we have overlapping seasons.

Ben 500RR-S · Feb 6, 2019

powdermuncher said:
If it has to be just one bike Beta 500 all the way best all around and awesome power without mods. Good as it gets for a single track four stroke that can easy pull a track kit with no mod. For me a 2 stroke dirt bike and a dedicated snow bike in Uta for sure. I ride a Xcw 250 for dirt and a yz450 2014 on my snow bike. Even up here we have overlapping seasons.

I do love your thinking as I bought a new 2017 500 RR-S two years ago this month however, snowbiking was NOT on the radar at all. It was not until Camso had announced the DTS 129 kit for $4,799 and that they made a kit for the Beta last year that I had realized that the kit was made for ME and my bike.

My firstborn(son) came in 05/2010. In the winter of 2009 I had sold my CR500R as I had no one to ride with and didn't know of anywhere that was nearby to ride anymore. In 12/2016, when I had realized that now that I only lived from 4.5 to 6.5 miles from work--depending on the small city roads I took back and forth to work, that a dual sport would be perfect as I could commute and ride on the dirt. The search for a 500cc four stroke, e-start, Fuel Injected dual sport was on and the Beta won over the KTM and Husky.

All I have had to do with the Beta is put a PST engine jacket on, some heated grips and it has been nothing but pure winter fun on the snowbike and it is simple converting the bike back when all the snow melts up in VT where I get to ride 125 miles away.

The 478cc of power. The spot-on Fuel Injection, the bike just goes from running below zero F to the single digits to 90 degrees F in the summer with not a single issue. I do need to put a jump pack on the battery when the temps are in the single digits but the bike fires right up and runs perfectly once started.

I have regularly ridden a KTM 300 with the DTS 129 kit as well as a CRF 450X with the same kit and do enjoy riding the KTM 300 with the snowbike kit and on the dirt.

My BIL, who owns both the above bikes, who is also 6'4" and 240, like you, who is 6'3" and 225(like prototype NHL power forwards-ha!), does not like the KTM 300 in the snow as it he feels that it does NOT have anywhere near the power that either my 500 RR-S or the 450X has and leaves the KTM 300 to his 12yo boy. He loves the KTM 300 on the dirt but on snow, it is a much different story as the 450 has all the torque and power that one needs on the snow right off the bat where the 300 has to rev, and rev a LOT to get and keep the bike moving for his much larger body/weight.

At least for me and my SuperHero 5'8" and 165lb physique, if I could, I would/someday will have a 300 FI/TPi (injected) two stroke for a dedicated snow/dirtbike as everything about having the light weight is great for the snow and the dirt but for now, because I can still manhandle the 478cc four stroke like Alexander Ovechkin handles opposing fourth line defenders, the 500 is still keeping me in fighting shape so that when I do go to a lighter bike I'll still be able to kick some serious booty.

Norma Stitz · Feb 6, 2019

Ben 500RR-S said:
I do love your thinking as I bought a new 2017 500 RR-S two years ago this month however, snowbiking was NOT on the radar at all. It was not until Camso had announced the DTS 129 kit for $4,799 and that they made a kit for the Beta last year that I had realized that the kit was made for ME and my bike.

My firstborn(son) came in 05/2010. In the winter of 2009 I had sold my CR500R as I had no one to ride with and didn't know of anywhere that was nearby to ride anymore. In 12/2016, when I had realized that now that I only lived from 4.5 to 6.5 miles from work--depending on the small city roads I took back and forth to work, that a dual sport would be perfect as I could commute and ride on the dirt. The search for a 500cc four stroke, e-start, Fuel Injected dual sport was on and the Beta won over the KTM and Husky.

All I have had to do with the Beta is put a PST engine jacket on, some heated grips and it has been nothing but pure winter fun on the snowbike and it is simple converting the bike back when all the snow melts up in VT where I get to ride 125 miles away.

The 478cc of power. The spot-on Fuel Injection, the bike just goes from running below zero F to the single digits to 90 degrees F in the summer with not a single issue. I do need to put a jump pack on the battery when the temps are in the single digits but the bike fires right up and runs perfectly once started.

I have regularly ridden a KTM 300 with the DTS 129 kit as well as a CRF 450X with the same kit and do enjoy riding the KTM 300 with the snowbike kit and on the dirt.

My BIL, who owns both the above bikes, who is also 6'4" and 240, like you, who is 6'3" and 225(like prototype NHL power forwards-ha!), does not like the KTM 300 in the snow as it he feels that it does NOT have anywhere near the power that either my 500 RR-S or the 450X has and leaves the KTM 300 to his 12yo boy. He loves the KTM 300 on the dirt but on snow, it is a much different story as the 450 has all the torque and power that one needs on the snow right off the bat where the 300 has to rev, and rev a LOT to get and keep the bike moving for his much larger body/weight.

At least for me and my SuperHero 5'8" and 165lb physique, if I could, I would/someday will have a 300 FI/TPi (injected) two stroke for a dedicated snow/dirtbike as everything about having the light weight is great for the snow and the dirt but for now, because I can still manhandle the 478cc four stroke like Alexander Ovechkin handles opposing fourth line defenders, the 500 is still keeping me in fighting shape so that when I do go to a lighter bike I'll still be able to kick some serious booty.

but do you regret selling the cr5?

Ben 500RR-S · Feb 6, 2019

Norma Stitz said:
but do you regret selling the cr5?

No. I don't regret selling the CR500R.

At one point, I had both an 1985 CR500R and a 1996 CR500R. The 85 had the total corrosion of the magnesium water pump housing and at the time, there was no fix or replacement parts for it so I ended up trading it for some parts for some other bike.

The 96 was good but even with a stock exhaust, it was loud, fast, but just loud and I wanted something quieter. I had used the bike as a pure woods bike and had beat the heck out of it. Never checking or lubing either the steering stem bearings or the swingarm bearings, I just rode it for right around 10 years with just oil changes, adding premix, cleaning air filters and replacing rear tires.

In a way, I do wish I still had it but always thought I'd get a Service Honda CR500AF. Now, with the latest four strokes with FI, and all the power I need and want, and then being able to ride a 300 two stroke, and being older and less physically superior(weaker-lamer), I don't miss the sound of that 500cc'd two stroke at all.

I will say that I wonder how it would be in the snow but, a 300cc 2S is doing me just fine and I never want for more power either in the snow or the dirt nowadays.

It is definitely not in the same league as a CR500R but my buddy has a KTM 380 2S. The CR500R used to beat his bike in drag races much like my Beta does now. He is always wondering if his clutch is slipping or if his carb is loaded up as he hates losing in all the drag races we have either on the trails or on the streets/fire roads. The modern four strokes have come a long way.

M5- · Feb 7, 2019

I don't currently have a kit on my CR500 but I don't think I am willing to sell it. Once its gone its gone. Not sure why you say its loud but my YZ450 is way louder than the CR5 IMO. Its probably not going to see the snow this season between constant deep freeze and no snow or friggin rain it hasn't been a season to drop a bunch of money on anything new. All that said the CR5 will absolutely lay the smack on a 300, where you really notice is on a climb I can always climb in 3rd and quite often I can clutch it into 4th and it will hold once on the pipe. Its a beast for sure but the CR5 makes an insane snow bike.

M5

Ben 500RR-S · Feb 7, 2019

M5- said:
I don't currently have a kit on my CR500 but I don't think I am willing to sell it. Once its gone its gone. Not sure why you say its loud but my YZ450 is way louder than the CR5 IMO. Its probably not going to see the snow this season between constant deep freeze and no snow or friggin rain it hasn't been a season to drop a bunch of money on anything new. All that said the CR5 will absolutely lay the smack on a 300, where you really notice is on a climb I can always climb in 3rd and quite often I can clutch it into 4th and it will hold once on the pipe. Its a beast for sure but the CR5 makes an insane snow bike.

M5

It is that at idle, and at slow, putt putt speeds, the CR5 is/was louder than my 478cc 4S engine. I could not tip-toe around the streets and houses like I can on my current bike.

All my neighbors had mentioned that they could always hear the CR5 when it was started and idling but now, they say they can't hear the 4S engine.

No question, the 500 would kill a 300 or even the KTM 380.

I agree too, with the massive sand washes on the powerline trails we used to ride, and where people would hang out to watch others rip, or try and rip up the sand chutes much like Glamis or all the mountain dunes out west, even with no paddle and just a good rear tire, the CR500 made going up the sand chute look effortless because it was. I could even show-off and slalom up the sand-walls on the way up to the top knowing that the motor had all the pull in the world to get it up to the top.

So many would tell me that I would not be able to ride the CR500 in the woods but it was a fantastic woods bike for me.

Remember, I have nothing against the CR500R. I loved and still love them but don't want another one, well, a SH AF e-start one would be nice.

andyemory · Feb 11, 2019

Thank for your input

Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it. After reading your comments and doing some deep thinking, here's what I've decided:

We are relatively new to the area and I don't know anyone yet with a snowbike (or anyone that's really into snowmobiling either) so I wouldn't have anyone to snowbike with. I don't have a background in snowmobiling either, so I don't think it would be a good idea to get a snowbike and head off into the woods on my own. Due to this, I'll table the snowbike idea for now and get a bike for riding on the dirt first. I have a lot more experience with that and I do know a group of guys here that I can ride with. I'll get into snowbiking a few years down the road and I'll get the right bike for that at that time.

So that narrows my search down a little more, but there are still so many options for the dirt. I feel like a bouncing ball as I tackle all of the standard debates:

-2t or 4t as I'm considering a KTM 300 or a 350. All of the guys I ride with ride 4 strokes so I'm a little leery of being the only one on a two banger. Does that even matter?

-250 vs 450 as I'm looking into the YZFX bikes. I'm a bigger guy (probably 240lbs with gear on), would a 250 be enough?

-Race bike vs trail bike as I'm even considering building up a CRF230. I plan to ride mostly single track, but there is also a lot of desert riding here in Utah, so that may not be a good route.

Too many choices!

Ben 500RR-S · Feb 11, 2019

Are you now looking for straight up-what dirtbike should you get for your 250 lb body?

Or, are you looking for a dirtbike with the idea that someday you will get a snowbike kit and start enjoying life instead of sitting around and NOT either snowmobiling or snowbiking?

My BIL is a big guy too but he loves his KTM 300 for the dirt. He does NOT like it with the snowbike kit on it but loves the bike on the dirt. I also like it on the dirt.

andyemory · Feb 11, 2019

Ben 500RR-S said:
Are you now looking for straight up-what dirtbike should you get for your 250 lb body?

Or, are you looking for a dirtbike with the idea that someday you will get a snowbike kit and start enjoying life instead of sitting around and NOT either snowmobiling or snowbiking?

My BIL is a big guy too but he loves his KTM 300 for the dirt. He does NOT like it with the snowbike kit on it but loves the bike on the dirt. I also like it on the dirt.

My original thought was to get a dirt bike now that I could convert later, bike my train of thought now is to get a dirt bike now for dirt then get another bike later for a snow bike build.

The comment about your brother in law is super helpful. I am leaning heavily towards a 300 and then would get a 450 to build into a snow bike down the road. Sounds like that is in line with his experience.

wwillf01 · Feb 11, 2019

For the everything bike in Utah it is hard to beat a 300..... Now if you don't want to jet then that narrows it down quick to a 4 stroke or a new tpi bike.. We ride/race everywhere from down south/Nevada and live in the Uintas.. At the end of the day the 300 does everything well...... If you are a straight desert person then that 350 does great but to me when you get to the techy/trials stuff man the 300 is way more fun.... Both will be a pain to set up right and you will get sick of swapping it back and forth quick.... I love riding wheels and kit so get that wallet out..... and just empty it

andyemory said:
Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it. After reading your comments and doing some deep thinking, here's what I've decided:

We are relatively new to the area and I don't know anyone yet with a snowbike (or anyone that's really into snowmobiling either) so I wouldn't have anyone to snowbike with. I don't have a background in snowmobiling either, so I don't think it would be a good idea to get a snowbike and head off into the woods on my own. Due to this, I'll table the snowbike idea for now and get a bike for riding on the dirt first. I have a lot more experience with that and I do know a group of guys here that I can ride with. I'll get into snowbiking a few years down the road and I'll get the right bike for that at that time.

So that narrows my search down a little more, but there are still so many options for the dirt. I feel like a bouncing ball as I tackle all of the standard debates:

-2t or 4t as I'm considering a KTM 300 or a 350. All of the guys I ride with ride 4 strokes so I'm a little leery of being the only one on a two banger. Does that even matter?

-250 vs 450 as I'm looking into the YZFX bikes. I'm a bigger guy (probably 240lbs with gear on), would a 250 be enough?

-Race bike vs trail bike as I'm even considering building up a CRF230. I plan to ride mostly single track, but there is also a lot of desert riding here in Utah, so that may not be a good route.

Too many choices!

Chadx · Feb 11, 2019

All of the above advice plus...forget the notion of a crf230f or even the new trail crf250f (not to be confused with crf250r or x). You are too big for that bike. I owned one as a teach-bike and would ride it now and then when putting people on a bigger bike. I'm 6' and 175lb and they are very small and cramped and sprung for someone about 130 to 150 lbs.

Between 300 and 350 (or 250), just pick one. Can't go wrong with either. Pros and cons to both but not enough to fret over. Look for a good deal used on either and fate may decide for you. Fun is guaranteed! Ha. And you are not marrying the dang thing. Just dating it. You can always sell it in a year or two and switch to a different bike.

wwillf01 · Feb 12, 2019

Chadx said:
All of the above advice plus...forget the notion of a crf230f or even the new trail crf250f (not to be confused with crf250r or x). You are too big for that bike. I owned one as a teach-bike and would ride it now and then when putting people on a bigger bike. I'm 6' and 175lb and they are very small and cramped and sprung for someone about 130 to 150 lbs.

Between 300 and 350 (or 250), just pick one. Can't go wrong with either. Pros and cons to both but not enough to fret over. Look for a good deal used on either and fate may decide for you. Fun is guaranteed! Ha. And you are not marrying the dang thing. Just dating it. You can always sell it in a year or two and switch to a different bike.

Agree 100 percent 230f is not doing you any favors .. especially with you weight....

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eric82930 · Feb 12, 2019

Don't go bigger than 350 for Utah single track. 230 power would work but suspension will not be good for your size. If you can't find riding buddies for snow or dirt let me know I can hook you up. This year is amazing snow. (Northern Utah) don't miss out. My first choice would be a ktm 2 stroke and don't disregard the 250s if you find a good deal they have better power for snow out of the box. The 300s need head and cdi to rip. 450s work a tiny bit better on supper deep days but they don't start they are too loud and suck for singletrack.

needpowder · Feb 12, 2019

$$$

By the 300. Or a YZ 250 X since they are $3000 cheaper and awesome! Yes they do take a little bit to set up for mountain trails but that’s another topic. Then when the 2019 YZ 450s go on sale next year for about $7500 out the door buy one.Ride it a few times at places where the 450 is fun like knolls or little sahara and get familiar with it. Keep it clean, keep it pristine, and then next winter slap a track, thermostat, engine jacket, stuff the horns full of foam, find some friends and ride the piss out of that thing.

needpowder · Feb 12, 2019

Actually. Go buy a 450 right now and put a track on it. It’s early February and we’ve had almost 400 inches of snow. I will be riding into June at least. Eric will probably ride into July. If you can’t find a riding buddy in Utah then you’re not looking very hard.

Best Route to a Snowbike

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♫ In the pow again. Just can't wait to get in..

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