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From my experience, Doo has made a more reliable snowmobile. However starting off so much lighter before aftermarket parts does sound enticing.
2019 sled weigh off
- Thread starter edgey
- Start date
The information is good. It is nice for them to do such a thing and make the information available.
Here would be the most valuable comparisons (all pull start):
Ski-doo Summit X 154 x 2.5
vs.
Arctic Cat Alpha 154 x 2.5
vs.
Polaris Pro RMK Patriot 155 x 2.6
and
Ski-doo Summit X 154 x 3.0
vs.
Arctic Cat Alpha 154 x 3.0
vs.
Polaris Pro RMK Patriot 155 x 3.0
and
Ski-doo Summit X 165 x 2.5
vs.
Arctic Cat Alpha 165 x 2.5
vs.
Polaris Pro RMK Patriot 163 x 2.6
and
Ski-doo Summit X 165 x 3.0
vs.
Arctic Cat Alpha 165 x 3.0
vs.
Polaris Pro RMK Patriot 163 x 3.0
In bold are the comparisons I would most care about. That is a lot of sleds. If you knew weights of the tracks that are on the cats and doos that would get rid of their differences on sleds of the same length but different lugs. I would do this full wet in the shop and after riding in the snow after a day. Snowmobile.com has some good write ups in the yearly shootouts except those are not apples to apples either as they only compare what manufactures give them to compare.
Here would be the most valuable comparisons (all pull start):
Ski-doo Summit X 154 x 2.5
vs.
Arctic Cat Alpha 154 x 2.5
vs.
Polaris Pro RMK Patriot 155 x 2.6
and
Ski-doo Summit X 154 x 3.0
vs.
Arctic Cat Alpha 154 x 3.0
vs.
Polaris Pro RMK Patriot 155 x 3.0
and
Ski-doo Summit X 165 x 2.5
vs.
Arctic Cat Alpha 165 x 2.5
vs.
Polaris Pro RMK Patriot 163 x 2.6
and
Ski-doo Summit X 165 x 3.0
vs.
Arctic Cat Alpha 165 x 3.0
vs.
Polaris Pro RMK Patriot 163 x 3.0
In bold are the comparisons I would most care about. That is a lot of sleds. If you knew weights of the tracks that are on the cats and doos that would get rid of their differences on sleds of the same length but different lugs. I would do this full wet in the shop and after riding in the snow after a day. Snowmobile.com has some good write ups in the yearly shootouts except those are not apples to apples either as they only compare what manufactures give them to compare.
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Alpha tracks are all 3 inch I believe
Weight matters a lot more in marketing than on the snow when you're talking about 20 to 40 pounds. Until you narrow the front end on an Axys it definitely doesn't feel the lightest. The Doo has felt the lightest to ride and taken less effort for several years now. The Alpha is an entirely different sled. It doesn't feel like anything I've ridden and is incredibly responsive to rider input...and stable at the same time. Weight is interesting to talk and fret about but with the differences we're talking about it is overblown. Weight distribution and sled geometry make a much bigger difference than the weight of a few gallons of gas. The '19 lineup is pretty stellar regardless of the color and number on the scale.
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Maybe ski doo can do a video, yell across your desk at Dagg ,you two should get together on this .
They have pretty much been that light since 2013. The Axys lost 9 lbs from the Pro. Just over 400lbs dry is where they seem to have hit the wall.
I don't believe anyone who says they can't feel the weight differences. I can feel a substantial difference between my Cat and previous Axys sleds, 30-40 lbs is a LOT on a sled.
2017 Axys vs 2018 early release cat.
Axys felt like a fat pig compared to the cat.... had both demos on the hill the same day so i could choose the best of the two.
Axys was very hard for a 180lb rider to initiate one ski on a side hill, cat was as easy as lifting the downhill foot.
40+lb weight difference and the poo felt 50lbs heavier.
If it didn't handle like a pig compared to the cat, i would have had a 2018 Polaris and not a 2018 Mtn Cat last yr.
Dude...dude...just...dude. Way too many people have spent way too much time on Axys sleds for this statement to carry any credibility.
And count me in as well with the disagree folks that 30 to 40 pounds more on a sled doesn't matter much. Oh my heavens. That is absolutely the #1 thing I love about my Axys is that it rides light, and it gets unstuck even lighter.
I do wish Polaris made a little better engine though. Hopefully this new Patriot will do what no Polaris 800 engine has done for over a decade now...keep running beyond the 2,000 mile mark without a total rebuild.
Haha, if it wasn't true, i would have an Axys.
5 people in the group riding both sleds. Everyone chose the cat as the better sled, especially on one ski!
Tried adjusting the Pro's shocks to make it better, sorry but it wasn't fun to ride. Yes it is definitely lighter when its stuck. But takes more energy to ride than cat.
Maybe u should try a cat and a doo instead of just thinking Polaris is the best because that is all u ride.
The cat is easier to initiate a sidehill than the axys but if a 180 rider has trouble with the axys it is technique or skill and not the sleds fault. I ride a little of everything so I don't have any problems. For those that don't, it just takes a little longer to get used to something and use the right technique. As far as the weight, the gen 4 rides lighter than any of them. It is only when stuck that it shows its weight. I can flip an axys over backwards by myself. Can't do it with the gen 4. I had an 06 summit with mountain addiction suspension and a whole list of other mods that rode lighter than any of these new sleds. Was it lighter, no. It had a shock on each side that had some give and was t motion before it was ever thought of. Only skidoo that would sidehill like the m sleds.
Weight isn't the huge deal it used to be. Every little bit probably helps but I don't believe it makes as huge of a difference with these new raised and narrowed chassis that are packing 3 inch tracks.
Weight isn't the huge deal it used to be. Every little bit probably helps but I don't believe it makes as huge of a difference with these new raised and narrowed chassis that are packing 3 inch tracks.
“Axys very hard to initiate sidehill for 180lb rider” ... first time on a sled?
Does take more effort than the other 2 to initiate, I agree, but once there its the most predictable, and holds the best line when conditions aren’t ideal. That Boorant guy says the Axys feels like an extension of your body, he couldn’t be more right, it always feels the same and responds to input extremely well in all conditions, something the other two tend to struggle with at times.
As far as the weight goes... dry weight IS super important, the lighter the sled is in the shop the lighter it is on the snow, regardless of the amount of snow on the tunnel.
Power to weight is a big deal, sure there are lots of factors that go into how a sled climbs/works. The lighter sled wont always win... but in the end 2 IDENTICAL sleds with the exception of one being 100lbs heavier... you tell me.
Cat and Doo need to, and will learn to shave ounces like Polaris, its very evident when wrenching that Poo saves weight in every little place they can and it adds up. For the MOST part reliablity isnt sacrificed. Sure there are a few weak spots on the Poo, but 3-5lbs added in the right places would work wonders, and dont kid yourselves, Cat and Doo have weak points as well while being 30-50lbs heavier.
Does take more effort than the other 2 to initiate, I agree, but once there its the most predictable, and holds the best line when conditions aren’t ideal. That Boorant guy says the Axys feels like an extension of your body, he couldn’t be more right, it always feels the same and responds to input extremely well in all conditions, something the other two tend to struggle with at times.
As far as the weight goes... dry weight IS super important, the lighter the sled is in the shop the lighter it is on the snow, regardless of the amount of snow on the tunnel.
Power to weight is a big deal, sure there are lots of factors that go into how a sled climbs/works. The lighter sled wont always win... but in the end 2 IDENTICAL sleds with the exception of one being 100lbs heavier... you tell me.
Cat and Doo need to, and will learn to shave ounces like Polaris, its very evident when wrenching that Poo saves weight in every little place they can and it adds up. For the MOST part reliablity isnt sacrificed. Sure there are a few weak spots on the Poo, but 3-5lbs added in the right places would work wonders, and dont kid yourselves, Cat and Doo have weak points as well while being 30-50lbs heavier.
Poolaid, drink it up.
What do I know? This is my first yr on a sled. (I own all three brands, not biased)
I will continue to ride every brand myself and decide which is best. Not take someone else's word....
What do I know? This is my first yr on a sled. (I own all three brands, not biased)
I will continue to ride every brand myself and decide which is best. Not take someone else's word....
They aren't 50 pounds difference and hence the 100 pound comment is a little off the charts.
Dry weight is just a talking point. You don't ride them dry. I never bought into the cat video when they were weighing sleds in the field but after looking at how much snow is in the alpha skid, cat might just be the lightest on the snow. I know how much snow an axys and skidoo hold.
I pretty much go with electric start anymore. If a person does that you can pretty much add 20 to 25 pounds to the polaris an cat unless you do a lightweight battery.if you do that I still bet it is 15 pounds.
I do believe the axys is the hardest to get there but easiest to keep there. Especially when it is rough.
By the way, they did weigh the lighter polaris and the heaviest skidoo. Not apples to apples.
Dry weight is just a talking point. You don't ride them dry. I never bought into the cat video when they were weighing sleds in the field but after looking at how much snow is in the alpha skid, cat might just be the lightest on the snow. I know how much snow an axys and skidoo hold.
I pretty much go with electric start anymore. If a person does that you can pretty much add 20 to 25 pounds to the polaris an cat unless you do a lightweight battery.if you do that I still bet it is 15 pounds.
I do believe the axys is the hardest to get there but easiest to keep there. Especially when it is rough.
By the way, they did weigh the lighter polaris and the heaviest skidoo. Not apples to apples.
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Woah, hit a soft spot somewhere? I acknowledged the work they did. My post was nothing against the work and effort they put forth to display the information. I know it isn't easy to do the comparison I feel would be valuable. Obviously you need lots of resources to gather sleds and it probably isn't realistic unless you run a dealership that sells all the brands.
All that aside the general consensus I get is that yes, it would be best to form my own opinion and ride them all, however that isn't always possible either so I use the internet as a resource.
The Cat is slightly easier to initiate than the Poo, that may have changed with the new narrow front end of the Poo. The Poo and Cat hold a sidehill very well. I am thinking this narrow front end on the Poo might make these two pretty equivalent. Reality of the matter is, you shorten the ski stance, you increase the chances of washing out. To me they are about the same weight when you start talking snow accumulation.
From experience: The doo is the easiest to ride all day(exception is unless you are getting stuck a lot), easiest steering, easiest initiation, and side hills well but not the best. I feel this sled is an extension of my body. This would be true for the Poo if initiation was easier but it isn't and steering is heavy in comparison. I have rode both of these but not with a new front end on the Poo.
There really is not a bad choice this winter. And this statement is becoming more true as time goes on here. It is a great thing.
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I hope you're right
@summ8rmk I actually hope that you are right. My favorite local dealer to work with is Cat, and it broke my heart to sell my old M8 to get this Axys. I would love to go back to Cat. Hopefully I can get a demo on their new stuff this year and be as impressed as you have been.
But until then, please, just stop saying that the Axys is "very hard" to initiate a sidehill. You're really just killing your own credibility. Which is really too bad because you say you ride every brand yourself, which thing not all of us have the opportunity to do every year, so it would be really good if, in your unique position of opportunity, we could depend on you for an accurate representation and review.
@summ8rmk I actually hope that you are right. My favorite local dealer to work with is Cat, and it broke my heart to sell my old M8 to get this Axys. I would love to go back to Cat. Hopefully I can get a demo on their new stuff this year and be as impressed as you have been.
But until then, please, just stop saying that the Axys is "very hard" to initiate a sidehill. You're really just killing your own credibility. Which is really too bad because you say you ride every brand yourself, which thing not all of us have the opportunity to do every year, so it would be really good if, in your unique position of opportunity, we could depend on you for an accurate representation and review.
S
The new Poo is narrower from factory. I think it is 36" just as the Doo.
I probably should not have said "very hard".
But when u compare all 3, it is definitely the hardest to initiate.
Get on a properly setup (shock settings) Mtn Cat. U will see for urself!
We took both new sleds (doo dealer wouldn't participate and buddy that owns G4 backed out because of the rain)With the sole purpose of Comparing side by side in every aspect of our daily routine of our favorite riding area. the same hill, same day, several riders, all taking turns on sleds.
We were just like one of the big magazines doing a review... lol
all said the same, it takes more energy from the rider to side hill the Axys. (Including the polaris faithful)
We Took time to make several changes to the Axys shocks to get the handling ideal for our conditions.
Im not talking about beautiful powder and perfect conditions Our grandma can sidehill an Apex in.
I live in Washington, we have wet heavy snow most of the season. Aka cascade concrete.
It was raining, snow was about as crappy as u could ask for, to get a real good feel on how the sled handles in the worst conditions.
Ski-doo, (since the T3) is definitely the easiest to ride all day except on side hills, i hate it on one ski.
Steering is so easy and sled feels so light and playful.
Definitely my first choice if i was to by my mom a brand new mountain sled.
(Not a dig on anyone that rides them, they are just that easy to ride)
Most of the time, I am the sole cat rider in a group of Polaris and few Doos. No cat dealer in my town. I prefer a local dealer however, i am not willing to ride a sled i don't like just because of a local dealer.
On 'my mountain', in Washington, the Axys rides heavier than the cat in every condition.
Poo is Definitely lighter than the cat when they are stuck!
As for weight, yes 30lbs is big difference on the same sled.
A buddy had an identical sled to mine, (2014 Cat) he pulled 30lbs off the front of his sled, wow! That was a huge difference!
I really liked the way that improved the handling in deep snow however, i won't run an open intake like that, its way to loud, i would have to wear earplugs.
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Used 100 to make a point, I realize thats off the charts when comparing the current 2 stokes... If you can feel and notice 100lbs, you know darn well 20lbs makes some sort of difference, it adds up at the end of the day. Not gonna be like WOW THAT GUYS SLED MUST BE 20LBS LIGHTER THAN MINE but power to weight is real when all else is the same.
I have spent time on all three. The Polaris for me is like a scalpel on the snow. Light, quick, responsive and stable. It allowed me to pick stupid lines I would never had considered before. In my experience it is quite fragile though, a one season sled for me. I switched to a Mtn Cat. I love the way better shock package, the way better track and solid power. After a few days I was taking the Cat places I wouldn't take the Axys. There is no doubt though, I can feel the extra weight of the Cat. It is a lot more work to get unstuck than the Polaris was. Most of my buddies ride Doo. they have the best local dealer and they are good reliable machines for the most part. I personally hate how the G4 rides. I liken it to straddling a whiskey barrel on a lake. easy to move around, hard to control in a precise manner. I do not like the riding position, the handle bar angle or the wide body narrow skis feel of it. Great for beginners, scary when you need it to hold a precise line through the trees at speed.
I never found the Axys hard to initiate but I haven't weighed 180 lbs since I was about 14.
Lighter is better in my book but there are obviously other factors. I can't go with the lightest because I think they have compromised it too much to get there. The Cat for me was the best last year when it was sled buying time. the lighter Alpha is in my sights now. I just hope it hasn't become too wobbly like the Doo.
I never found the Axys hard to initiate but I haven't weighed 180 lbs since I was about 14.
Lighter is better in my book but there are obviously other factors. I can't go with the lightest because I think they have compromised it too much to get there. The Cat for me was the best last year when it was sled buying time. the lighter Alpha is in my sights now. I just hope it hasn't become too wobbly like the Doo.
Just curious, aside from motor and clutch issues (dont wanna go there LOL) what made the Axys a one season sled?
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