Wheres APT Smartcarb ?

summitboy · Oct 12, 2015

Really doesnt matter what happened between thse two partners Randy. No matter how u want to swing your little carb the fact remains they took peoples money and disolved the company to the point where the stock is mega worthless and the shareholders lose !

If the Smarty is so wonderful why are you hearing less and less about it ? The smartcarb threads are few and far between on the ktm forum, crickets ! We have a huge ktm group of single track riders here locally and there are zero smart carbs here. They have all been sold or put on the shelf next to the Roost Boosts LOL

mrquick68 · Oct 12, 2015

summitboy said:
Innovation through stealing peoples hard earned money. Oh the American dream ! Raise capital to fund your innovation and turn around and offer zero in return to your shareholders. I would love to hear Corey explain this one !

Summitboy, i'm no smartcarb fan boy, though i do i own a billet 38 for my 300 Beta for single track and hare scramble use. It works amazingly on my 300. i've had "almost" no issues with it (leaky bowl gasket). I dropped a lot of bones on it to say the least. however, it works as promised and increased fuel mileage and power as promised. In fact, it did everything as promised and runs better than every 300 i've ridden so far. my only grip is i wish it fit better.

As for them going out of business and changing names and boning investors. i didn't get burned there. Sounds like perhaps you did, and that sucks. But you also know the risk of trading, especially in startups. Typically brilliant engineers make poor businessmen, and vice versa. Investing in technology like this is inherently risky, and this specific outcome proves that. Less than 1 in 10 survive, and when they do it can be a huge pay day. but the other 90%+ go down taking everyone's hard earned money with them.

I'm going to keep my eye on this new company as the engineering is sound. It just seems the business behind the engineering is struggling, and for investors that's a damn shame. It's actually a shame for everyone that owns a 2 stroke, as we need a product like this.

summitboy · Oct 12, 2015

Its not the fact so much that i lost a small position on a worthless penny stock. I trade all the time and that is the fact of life in the market. It is more the principal that Corey yanks his products and keeps rolling along without a care in the world about the people who believed in him and his company. If Corey knew his partner was a douche (which he did) he should of never taken a dime in the first place !

I really dont care about the smartcarb. It sure didnt work well for me and many other friends. It is just a bad memory. The 500 riders, builders i know tested and ran them. Some with somewhat success but the proof was in the pudding and they have all been since sent down the road. Its just hard for some to accept that.

mrquick68 · Oct 12, 2015

summitboy said:
Its not the fact so much that i lost a small position on a worthless penny stock. I trade all the time and that is the fact of life in the market. It is more the principal that Corey yanks his products and keeps rolling along without a care in the world about the people who believed in him and his company. If Corey knew his partner was a douche (which he did) he should of never taken a dime in the first place !

I really dont care about the smartcarb. It sure didnt work well for me and many other friends. It is just a bad memory. The 500 riders, builders i know tested and ran them. Some with somewhat success but the proof was in the pudding and they have all been since sent down the road. Its just hard for some to accept that.

i agree with that. Pretty poor business sense if that is the case. Surprised they even tried to be a publicly held company, but i guess i'm not surprised in the end. Pretty lame overall.

As for the product itself, they seem to work best on 300s for some reason. Mine is a touch finicky if my filter is real dirty. i have heard they don't work as well on 500s.

Pedec · Oct 12, 2015

I have had great luck with my Lectrons on my wr165 and 250sx only big problem is carb freezing on 250sx with snowbike setup. Seems worse than stock carb. I know i will need to setup a carb heater for it to work correct the carb blanket is not enough. Guess I also broke two throttle cables also but also do to carb freezing.

portgrinder · Oct 12, 2015

Too bad for those guys. innovation takes work.

a smart guy told me once. you need to know how to get the job done, and make money doing it. knowing how to do both is key

wwillf01 · Oct 12, 2015

Well guys I rang them up today and they were very responsive... At the end of the day there are many companies out there to spend money with... I am the anomaly I guess that has a great working smarty on the cr500 that will idle all day long and pull close to 10 grand (maybe got lucky with the porting) ... My 300 also.... As far as their business practice and so forth now that is a different story till you hear the whole story... I don't know that I would be investing any money in a carb solution stock wise but that's just me

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

coreyd396 · Oct 28, 2015

summitboy said:
Innovation through stealing peoples hard earned money. Oh the American dream ! Raise capital to fund your innovation and turn around and offer zero in return to your shareholders. I would love to hear Corey explain this one !

The nature of our separation from APT and the complexity of laws regarding a public company have kept us from being able to clearly talk to our customer base about what is exactly happening.

I’m the last person to step out and publicly display a laundry list of all grievances toward partners and APT for the actions I have been forced to take. No reason to defend myself, however suffice it to say I have taken the necessary means to separate and put the SmartCarb and the SonicFlow engine technologies to the forefront of our efforts and give them the funding and the priority they deserve.

Interesting that some would care to discuss their bad investment, APT’s stock situation and the implications it has on the SmartCarb when the whole drama of mismanagement and many other improprieties by those involved are being played out publicly right now on the stock board forums. For those that are desperately bored or curious it can be found here: http://investorshub.advfn.com/APT-MotoVox-Group-Inc-MTVX-18062/

Here’s a public statement I made on our FB page several months ago:

“I have graciously offered APT and its shareholder base a win-win opportunity that will benefit all. APT is lagging on making a decision and has been negligent in filing an 8k regarding my departure, which occurred July 1 2015 and details regarding the R&D activities. If APT continues to neglect their legal obligations per SEC rules, I now have just cause to disclose all information regarding my professional status in view of my career and technologies, improprieties on APT's part that are delaying the process and legal remedies.”

For those of you who have followed the SmartCarb on KTMTalk or some of the other larger forums will know that from the beginning we explained that the SmartCarb was the 45 + year evolvement of the single circuit flat slide carbs that Red Edmonston invented, including the Lectron. I had nothing to hide and certainly didn’t steal anything, I promised an ailing friend that I would do my best to finish his work, get into the market what we felt was an excellent carb and take care of his widow financially. I’ve clearly patented all of my own technologies and most know those are uniquely ours.

Now to explain the drama, to those who have not followed the investor’s forum. It’s now public that I have fought with APT for 8 long years to secure the payments to Red’s widow, lock down the holdings of the patents and set the carburetor on a course for its best chance of success. Never happened, and all our efforts for raising funds from investors to develop the technologies only to see those assets taken and used for other ventures including Motovox and now Motoped is frustrating beyond explanation. We don't expect everyone to understand, but for those who do we appreciate your support.

Now that we’ve had more than several years in the field, most the engineering and manufacturing refinements for both the billets and cast versions have been made clear and corrected for. But let me say this to the bashers, the SC has had far more success than some may conclude from looking at the forums and the SC has set some pretty unprecedented marks. For instance shortly before I left APT and production took a nose dive again we certified Zaeta’s DT530 motorcycle for on road use in North American and Canada. Doesn’t seem like a lot until you consider this is TM’s open enduro race engine emissions certified by the EPA and ARB for on road use with no catalysts in the exhaust sytem. Just the SC and an EVAP recovery. Also facts regarding the altitude compensation work done on the drones. But perhaps those are stories for a more favorable audience.

Regarding the SC issues on a number of CR500 Honda’s, it's now understood most of the problems we have had are related the airboot and fit of the SmartCarb on the CR500’s and to a lesser degree on some other bikes. The venting scoop at the top of the venturi has proven to be much more sensitive to restriction and disturbance in the intake on certain bikes and upsets the carburetors ability to read MAP and adjust fuel flow correctly. We have several suggestions for eliminating these problems but ultimately will provide a solution to the carb to eliminate restrictive air boxes or scrunching of the airboot from being a problem. The Avid heaters can create a small problem here too. Perhaps Chris and Roostie’s issues were something else.

We are very much in business with full service lines and parts. We currently have all sizes of the latest refined billet versions in stock and a large order of cast 38mms arriving now. Look for news soon regarding the SonicFlow engine technologies. And the release of our new intake valves after the first of the year.

summitboy · Oct 28, 2015

Corey, while i appreciate you explaining the situation it brings me absolute ZERO comfort in knowing the money people invested into a obviously poorly run company is gone. I find it incredulous you/APT knew about these types of issues and took peoples money without saying a word. I wish you every bit of luck in the future with your carb, but i will never spend another red cent supporting your venture nor will i promote it !

I and others have had many Smartcarbs. A close friend of mine did some testing on the Smartcarb in many different configurations. He says:

"I have run the smarty on multiple bikes. Ran a billet on a bone stock engine with stock reeds and OEM pipe. Changed the pipe to a FMF fatty and changed reeds to VF2, tried VF3, rad valve, stock cage with TDR petals.

Under riding vacuum the metering rod would adjust to full rich. Ran a 78 rod at 78 clicks and it would draw to zero clicks.

Always had to blow into rollover valves to free them.

3/4 throttle position lean spot no matter what rod or how rich.

Cast carb i have many videos of pipe shutter so bad it was shattering the pipe. Took months to get richer rods that didn't work.

All this test info will be posted on the www.banned500riders.com website in the tech section if people are interested."

I also had all these issues as well as other people i personally know. Once u see the videos you will see the vibration we keep talking about. I also cracked a brand new FMF Gnarly in two rides with the Smartcarb in the sand. I lost many days of riding sorting the issues out and some were never really sorted out. If my PWK Pulse setup masks these issues then so be it !

coreyd396 · Oct 28, 2015

summitboy said:
Corey, while i appreciate you explaining the situation it brings me absolute ZERO comfort in knowing the money people invested into a obviously poorly run company is gone. I find it incredulous you/APT knew about these types of issues and took peoples money without saying a word. I wish you every bit of luck in the future with your carb, but i will never spend another red cent supporting your venture nor will i promote it !

I and others have had many Smartcarbs. A close friend of mine did some testing on the Smartcarb in many different configurations. He says:

"I have run the smarty on multiple bikes. Ran a billet on a bone stock engine with stock reeds and OEM pipe. Changed the pipe to a FMF fatty and changed reeds to VF2, tried VF3, rad valve, stock cage with TDR petals.

Under riding vacuum the metering rod would adjust to full rich. Ran a 78 rod at 78 clicks and it would draw to zero clicks.

Always had to blow into rollover valves to free them.

3/4 throttle position lean spot no matter what rod or how rich.

Cast carb i have many videos of pipe shutter so bad it was shattering the pipe. Took months to get richer rods that didn't work.

All this test info will be posted on the www.banned500riders.com website in the tech section if people are interested."

I also had all these issues as well as other people i personally know. Once u see the videos you will see the vibration we keep talking about. I also cracked a brand new FMF Gnarly in two rides with the Smartcarb in the sand. I lost many days of riding sorting the issues out and some were never really sorted out. If my PWK Pulse setup masks these issues then so be it !

I regret all of your issues, I truly do. Had I the finances and equipment resources that were allocated to not only the pay for the run of cast carbs in the first place but to fix our known issues and better the process I think the outcome and experience would have been much better for all. I accept your interpretation of mismanagement and the known problems within. I think shortly it will become very clear that it was that knowledge that led us to where we are at today and our legal actions toward APT.

What you don't know was that I offered 100% of my ownership back to APT to absolve their stock value problem. I won't share the number here but it would have fixed the over-subscription and placed a lot of value back in the stock so all you good people could have seen a decent return on your investment. I walked away with nothing, you would have had more shares than me. What did I want? Shareholders to get their money, pay Edmonston's and get my engine patent back.

If the metering rod was adjusting itself under vacuum the clicker indent obviously was not catching so it was allowed to spin freely. A phone call would have gotten him a new ball spring plunger or clicker assembly, whatever was necessary. The tip over valve plastic seats have fixed the valves from sticking and was offered to all existing SmartCarb owners as a free upgrade, as were all the updates.

wwillf01 · Oct 28, 2015

mrquick68 said:
Summitboy, i'm no smartcarb fan boy, though i do i own a billet 38 for my 300 Beta for single track and hare scramble use. It works amazingly on my 300. i've had "almost" no issues with it (leaky bowl gasket). I dropped a lot of bones on it to say the least. however, it works as promised and increased fuel mileage and power as promised. In fact, it did everything as promised and runs better than every 300 i've ridden so far. my only grip is i wish it fit better.

As for them going out of business and changing names and boning investors. i didn't get burned there. Sounds like perhaps you did, and that sucks. But you also know the risk of trading, especially in startups. Typically brilliant engineers make poor businessmen, and vice versa. Investing in technology like this is inherently risky, and this specific outcome proves that. Less than 1 in 10 survive, and when they do it can be a huge pay day. but the other 90%+ go down taking everyone's hard earned money with them.

I'm going to keep my eye on this new company as the engineering is sound. It just seems the business behind the engineering is struggling, and for investors that's a damn shame. It's actually a shame for everyone that owns a 2 stroke, as we need a product like this.

I am an ease of use fan works on my cr500 along with 300... Don't know if I ever see them on the mountain myself besides mine... I would say there specialty... I have had to have one rebuilt to get it work right but everything has been fine since....

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

coreyd396 · Oct 29, 2015

summitboy said:
Finally after installing my Pulse from Ron Mccord it started in a couple kicks. Into a perfect idle. I changed the main and pilot once without moving the carb. Airscrew to adjust the entire circuit. Havent had to touch my Pulse since its been on all last snow season and sand season. Bike is more or less flawless.

I think it's clear now why all the bashing...

http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371871

Please tell us how the Pulse system is better than a SmartCarb or Lectron. You alluded earlier that if the pulse was masking some problem metering rod carbs couldn't handle you were ok with that. That's interesting, are you getting ready to mass market the Pulse? Could you also share with us how it's better than a reed-less intake? You seemed to think there was some conflict with the idea.

summitboy · Oct 29, 2015

Ha ha Corey you crack me up. I said its better because it works unlike my dud of a Smartcarb. I have no affiliation with Ron Mccord or have no plans to mass market anything. I'm just a poor snowbiker/sledder who got suckered into your product that didn't work for me or my friends/non friends LOL. Even your biggest advocate had issues with his Smartcarb but will not admit it in a open forum. He'd rather tell me its my tuning or my Pulse masking my issues than admit his own issues. Instead of calling me out in the forum maybe you should get your thinking cap on and figure a way to pay back all the people APT hoodwinked !

Roostius_Maximus · Oct 29, 2015

Corey, when we talked about the clicker deal I was told we had the most recent design at that time. The faults of the employees as far as carrying out simple tasks like posting the components ordered and making sure components were finished properly before shipping was a major problem.
I need to remind you that even after what flaws I found in the billet were talked about extensively, and I tank you for that direct communication, I did get in on the pre-order for the cast carb because I maintained hope that it was a "problems solved" situation. It took a long long time to get the carb, and almost as long to get the richer metering rods. You'd messaged me aggravated about a comment I'd made about the carbs appearance looking like it was made of old wheels or soup cans, whatever I'd phrased it as I can't exactly recall. The truth is that it was a very disheartening presentation to open the box of the cast model after having had the billet. I by no means expected it to be a glittery display item, but it looked corroded and aged. The slide of the carbs were no longer a smooth finish, mine actually had trailing marks from machining, I fully expected this to have the effect of lapping itself into the slides housing. It literally looked like an imitation of APT's marketed product.
I ran the carbs in bikes with cr250 airboots, flowbench flowed multiple boots to find the less turbulent, highest velocity model available, I believe that should have eliminated it from being a factor. I also ran multiple Reed setups and different spacers on multiple cylinders in both ported and stock engine arrangements. I ran different ignition systems with up to 6 degrees different timing at mid to high rpm in the map to try and calm the detonation at 3/4 throttle position which I couldn't adjust fuel to correct.
Altitude compensation, I still find it hard to grasp what aspect of the jetting this was effecting positively. I'm under the impression that altitude change can also be simulated by air density, humidity etc. Likely why the self compensating carburetor needed 4-6 clicks for certain when riding the same altitude over 3-4 hours and 10-15 degrees centigrade of temperature change. Seems to trim the same way the non-compensating carburetors on the market respond to the airscrews adjustment.

The pulse deal, I've bought 3 more from Ron McCord in the last year if that's "mass production". Ron is the manufacturer, designer and patent holder if you wish to contact him for one he's still "retired" and living in Billings. He'll make you one no problem, I believe I also explained in depth the prior to Smartcarb excellent experiences I'd had with the pulse.

I recall talking with you and sharing my ideas for a reed-less intake system to which you seemed to take great interest in. If you'd paid as much attention to the explanations I'd given for the pulse deal as the ideas for the reed-less setup I'm certain you could explain it here without mine or anyone else's input.

mtn-doo · Oct 29, 2015

Now that's what I call a coordinated effort! Lol

As for me and THOUSANDS of others. I have kept the first carry over bike. .. ever, with the Billet 40 MM. It is spotless. Start, idle, WOT, every day. I will be riding it again all year. No explication necessary. Thousands of people see it start first at negative 3F, idle as smooth as an electric motor endlessly while assisting others, etc. Like all bikes and all products you have the common denominator of unique bikes and people.

I just installed a Billet 38mm on a friends bike. Started, idled perfectly, explosive throttle response. Never even adjusted the slide after my initial bench set. Never touched it after the bench, ready to ride. My CR500 buddy is on his second season with his. Same amazing results. Thanks to the guys putting it on the line to advance technology. I am sure we will see great things in the future.

Don't let the bashes get you down. They haven't contributed anything, just enjoy taking the ones doing the research and time developing products down. We all see it everywhere. They are insignificant.

Now back to the lab !!!! We depend on you guys to advance technology beyond old carbs controlling leaks with fuel, then adding modifications.

Keep moving forward. Thanks for all you do.

mtn-doo · Oct 29, 2015

Roostius_Maximus said:
Corey, I'm under the impression that altitude change can also be simulated by air density, humidity etc. Likely why the self compensating carburetor needed 4-6 clicks for certain when riding the same altitude over 3-4 hours and 10-15 degrees centigrade of temperature change. Seems to trim the same way the non-compensating carburetors on the market respond to the airscrews adjustment.

You must first fully understand air density, pressure altitude, and density altitude before you post pro's and con's. First off, humidity is the least factor, and the fact that humidity lowers density. So many post not truly understanding the science. We must be careful to not mislead all the folks reading these posts to learn and become knoledgable. Accuracy is paramount.

There are a couple examples for folks. We could start a new thread on the subject if there was enough demand.

1- Colder air is dense
2- Lower elevation is dense
3- Density Altitude is pressure altitude corrected for temperature. Example, 8000 ft altitude is actually only 6000 ft if temperatures are below 59F ISA.
Note; "Humidity lowers density", dry air is more dense.

The concept of a sealed carb is much like the liquid barometer in your kitchen window. High pressure, the fluid rises in the tube, pressure drops, the fluid drops in the tube.

When a sealed carb has only access to ambient air, the pressure in the bowl rises and falls according. The rise in pressure, rise in fuel, loss of pressure, loss of fuel. Those highs and lows are temperature and altitude. Yes, it is brilliant, and yes it works. We have tested it until we're cross eyed. I NEVER have adjusted my Smart Carb since set. Multiple states , , , elevation changes, temperature changes. Never adjusted. Our company 330 was the same. Once set, it ran all season and never adjusted.

The biggest testimony is Dirt Bike Magazine. After riding every make and model for 4 days, their uninamious decision was, .... the 330 with the Smart Carb was their favorite. Those are the words of the "Pro's". Expert test riders and magazine editors. Take it from the Pro's. They are amazing.

coreyd396 · Oct 29, 2015

Roostius_Maximus said:
I recall talking with you and sharing my ideas for a reed-less intake system to which you seemed to take great interest in. If you'd paid as much attention to the explanations I'd given for the pulse deal as the ideas for the reed-less setup I'm certain you could explain it here without mine or anyone else's input.

My purpose in being here is to clearly say to those brought in by Chris's provocative thread that there were company internal problems with cash allocation than forced me to work with literally nothing to try to deliver on both updates for the billets, and the first run of cast carbs. Yes they looked like crap and were not what we wanted either. Big reason why I left. No doubt you were disappointed. Can I say more clearly I was struggling with company affairs beyond my control that left me, and you, with a compromised product.

All that is behind us.

I don't recall a conversation where you shared any ideas. Beyond your impressions of Pulse, perhaps you could explain some of the broader thoughts you have here toward these systems, and I would be equally glad to do the same. I've shown some our designs and information on Tecnnology Elevated FB. https://www.facebook.com/technology...466897210535/1523404454616779/?type=3&theater

summitboy · Oct 29, 2015

Thanks for the bad rep lol. That must make u feel better. So with that fancy 40mm. It never gave you any lean issues what so ever ? Started first kick and idled all day long. No detonation EVER ? Never had any of the issues ive mentioned.

You know u and i had several conversations regarding some of these issues Mr MtnDoo. Not only did u have these issues u were personally along ridng with me when i had some of these very same said issues. I find it interesting you have no knowledge and sit here in this forum and have the gall to tell me im making this up and everything is rosey in Smartcarb land. As for it works on all bikes the same you know as well as i do it doesnt. Worked horrible on the 380 and worked horrible on the CR500 to which Corey admitted to me. Your bike was a KX500 and u had issues as well with that AF.

As for your thousands of others without issues i dont seem to see any of them around here. Not 1000, not 100, not 10, not 1. U can call me a basher if that makes you feel better Randy. I tried that carb for a complete season. It brought me nothing but wasted days. If you want to support a moraless company that took money from investors and left them high and dry so be it. Your choice. Maybe you and Corey can get together and spend the next round of investors money !

mtn-doo · Oct 29, 2015

Yes I recall your bike didn't run very well. Lol .
I am about to finish another KX500 AF. I will post the progress. My 500 was a dealer demo bike. Can't make any excuses with one of those. All season amazing and several videos. No explication necessary. Yes, most folks, like myself, don't live on the forums.

coreyd396 · Oct 29, 2015

summitboy said:
Instead of calling me out in the forum maybe you should get your thinking cap on and figure a way to pay back all the people APT hoodwinked !

You started the thread, I explained my plan for paying back all our investors, the answer is APT refused. What part of I did my part don't you get?

Wheres APT Smartcarb ?

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