The only thing I would like to see on it is some sort of rubber vibration dampner? With the longer bolt if I remember on the old twins the vibration took its toll!
Mike
Mike
Interesting new product.
- Thread starter DonoBBD
- Start date
M
I rechecked and its set just so there is a little drag on the .015 " feeler gauge, i reset my belt deflection have the stock yellow/white spring and the engagment is smooth at about the 3600 rpm, you cant feel the definate clutch engagment, the sled just starts moving. Im debating on puting in a orange/white or even try a black out.
yellow/white 122-285lbs
orange/white 143-290lbs
black 158-290lbs
Thoughts???
R
According to the manufacturer's description, upshift and backshift is improved .
Can somebody please explain ,to me, how this is accomplished? Once your clutch is engaged, the ENTIRE part is out of the picture.
400% more bearing contact. Shouldn't this read 400% more bearing contact AT IDLE ONLY?
Does anybody know how a sliding hammer works?:face-icon-small-hap
Not trying to dog this product.. Just asking what I am missing..
The picture on their website shows it all...
![abc%202%20snowtech[1].jpg](https://www.snowest.com/forum/data/attachments/94/94492-2341603fab4accdc56fa5654413fd2a9.jpg "abc%202%20snowtech[1].jpg")
Can somebody please explain ,to me, how this is accomplished? Once your clutch is engaged, the ENTIRE part is out of the picture.
400% more bearing contact. Shouldn't this read 400% more bearing contact AT IDLE ONLY?
Does anybody know how a sliding hammer works?:face-icon-small-hap
Not trying to dog this product.. Just asking what I am missing..
The picture on their website shows it all...
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"It is right at engagement with the belt that the cover needs the most support to keep it from cocking and binding. Sure, there is another bushing down at the bottom in the movable sheave, but that's at the bottom. The top is left with little support."
"add big power engines, things like 150-160 HP 800 twins, 1000 cc twin's, and 1100cc Turbo-charged four-strokes the need for as much support and alignment becomes even more critical. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to realize the benefit from adding support to this area."
"Even if you discount the bushing support argument, you know full well how much you need an external side clearance adjuster!"
Just a few quotes from the Thunderproducts website that should help define the purpose of this piece.
"add big power engines, things like 150-160 HP 800 twins, 1000 cc twin's, and 1100cc Turbo-charged four-strokes the need for as much support and alignment becomes even more critical. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to realize the benefit from adding support to this area."
"Even if you discount the bushing support argument, you know full well how much you need an external side clearance adjuster!"
Just a few quotes from the Thunderproducts website that should help define the purpose of this piece.
R
Thanks Eric,
I have read the claims on the product..
1) I am just asking how upshift and backshift will be improved? Any ideas how a piece that is out of the picture after engagement can improve ANY shift characteristics? ??????
2) How will this new , added, bushing support stay centered (true) with the clutch shaft?? It MUST be 100% tight to act as a supporter but it is not mated to the clutch shaft.. so, I am asking HOW it stays true because if it is off just a few thousandts.. it will contact the bushing when the clutch returns to neutral position.. So, any idea how it is kept within a few thou of the shaft????
3) Next thought...this device, IMO, turns the clutch into a sliding hammer... If there is pressure on the outer sheave via the adjuster... then Everytime the clutch returns it will smack the adjuster (stopper) and act EXACTLY like a sliding hammer.. At least this is what it looks like to me... I do not have one to look at so I am ASKING anybody, why this would not be the case??
AGAIN, NOT dogging anything.. just making a few observances.. but I do not have one to install and visualize in action... so I am asking for others thoughts on what I am visioning..
Any input would be great.
Thanks
Kelsey
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I like the Idea but I'm with RKT on this one, they should know it has to be aligned perfect but using it as an adjuster is going to cause someone problems.
time will tell
time will tell on this one!!!! more real life testing!!!
time will tell on this one!!!! more real life testing!!!
Pics of ABC
I hope these pictures help. I am not completely sold on it yet either but I took the bait. I think it will align really well if the clutch is assembled (spring and cover in place) when you install it I worry more about the bolt. I have never taken my bolt out yet of the stock clutch but where this bolt is machined I worry about it breaking.
Rob
BTW the crap on the threads is from my floor.
I hope these pictures help. I am not completely sold on it yet either but I took the bait. I think it will align really well if the clutch is assembled (spring and cover in place) when you install it I worry more about the bolt. I have never taken my bolt out yet of the stock clutch but where this bolt is machined I worry about it breaking.
Rob
BTW the crap on the threads is from my floor.
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R
Great pics.. thans for taking them..
It LOOKs like the added support is locating on the inside of the clutch shaft... this is a good thing..
So, thoughts #1 and #3 still need to be addressed... Any thoughts on #1 and #3??
I did not buy it for #1. I believe that it is a crock.
I bought it for #1 the extra bushing support, which is more then it appears. I think it will add extra support until the clutch is about half open.
And #2 the ability to adjust the belt side clearance.
Your clutch is a big slide hammer! If it is not the adjuster taking the ponding it is the spider. The real question is the adjuster and bolt tough enough to take the pounding??
The kit is beefier then you might think.
Let the testing begin.
Rob
I bought it for #1 the extra bushing support, which is more then it appears. I think it will add extra support until the clutch is about half open.
And #2 the ability to adjust the belt side clearance.
Your clutch is a big slide hammer! If it is not the adjuster taking the ponding it is the spider. The real question is the adjuster and bolt tough enough to take the pounding??
The kit is beefier then you might think.
Let the testing begin.
Rob
I agree, we will need some time to test. I have a couple on sleds now so Ill post more when I get the information.
D
On number one the only gain in up shift would be if you moved the spider too. In this case the spider stays in place and the shift moves. Unless you move the mass center line of the weights you will not see any more up shift than stock.
On number two the outter sheave would bang like a slide hammer on the spider the same as this stopper in the end of the bolt. I am sure in time it will take its tole but one would have to run it and keep checking it with a new belt.
If you are really anal at keeping .020 belt to sheave then this product will be great. As the belt wears move in the secondary the same amount you close up the belt to sheave as the belt wears.
Don.
R
With STOCK set up the outer sheave will smack the spider everytime the clutch disengages. With this product installed, the outer sheave will never contact the spider (like stock) because the spider will be shimmed inwards to change the clearance...So, ALL the force of the returning sheave will be placed on the aluminum adjuster and bolt head. With the stock set up the forces are placed on the entire spider surface area and the outer sheave area. These areas are MUCH larger than the adjuster's area and are NOT directly smacking the tiny bolt head.
It looks, to me, that IF you use this to shim the spider you will remove the impact of the spider to the sheave and transfer ALL that impact to this adjuster and bolt head.. IMO, this is not a good thing and has a large chance of failure. This failure will probably not come in just the form of the bolt and/or clutch but the crank will definitely be subjected to unfavorable conditions..The more you have it adjusted, inward, the more force that will be applied to this adjuster and bolt head. This is a given!
Again, just my thoughts but I have no experience with it one way or the other... so, I could be all wet.. If this bolt breaks, it will be very difficult to remove.. that is for sure..
As for the claims of improving upshift and backshift.. I still do not see how this could possibly be improved upon using this..
D
I totally agree. The force of the clutch back shifting hits the big end of the spider shim then is transferred to the fine threads of the spider.
The only way this can change the shift up or down is if stock the end bearing is binding in some way that we are not seeing at rest. I guess if there is wear in the bearing then there has to be some drag there.
Cheers Don.
The only way this can change the shift up or down is if stock the end bearing is binding in some way that we are not seeing at rest. I guess if there is wear in the bearing then there has to be some drag there.
Cheers Don.
Ok, here is what I have come up with.
#1 Can't be a really big factor because it would only increase or decrease shift-ability in that small area that the contact is increased on. It could help, but not a significant amount.
On the slide hammer issue. If anything would fail it would be the aluminum adjuster. It is soft and the clutch bolt is hard. The clutch bolt and the crank are steel on steel and would take a SIGNIFICANT amount of abuse.
Next, MicroBelmont and Comet have been using this type of deflection adjuster as far back as 20 years. Failure has not been an issue.
Thunderproducts has offered what they call the "911" clutch kit, which is the same as the ABC with a different clutch cover to capture the towers and increase rigidity. These 911 kits have been around for about 10 years and have had no impact failures or damage based on the "slide hammer" argument.
So what it offers is greater contact area, smoother engagement, and deflection adjustment.
Again, I will be testing this season and will report back findings...but as of now I am comfortable with this piece.
#1 Can't be a really big factor because it would only increase or decrease shift-ability in that small area that the contact is increased on. It could help, but not a significant amount.
On the slide hammer issue. If anything would fail it would be the aluminum adjuster. It is soft and the clutch bolt is hard. The clutch bolt and the crank are steel on steel and would take a SIGNIFICANT amount of abuse.
Next, MicroBelmont and Comet have been using this type of deflection adjuster as far back as 20 years. Failure has not been an issue.
Thunderproducts has offered what they call the "911" clutch kit, which is the same as the ABC with a different clutch cover to capture the towers and increase rigidity. These 911 kits have been around for about 10 years and have had no impact failures or damage based on the "slide hammer" argument.
So what it offers is greater contact area, smoother engagement, and deflection adjustment.
Again, I will be testing this season and will report back findings...but as of now I am comfortable with this piece.
Slide hammer
You guys worry the heck out of me. I hate to waste money. I agree with Racinstation on this one. If the aluminum adjuster fails you will also still be able to ride.
I also went out and played with the slide hammer effect. When I engaged the clutch and disengaged it with the throttle it was not violent like a slide hammer. With out the belt it was smooth with the deceleration. It never slammed. Then I jacked the rear of the sled and ran with the belt. There was more speed in the clutch movement with the track turning, yet no major slamming. The only thing I did not do was to be full throttle and lock up the track with the break. It will be interesting to see how we feel later into the season.
Keep up the posts.
Mike
You guys worry the heck out of me. I hate to waste money. I agree with Racinstation on this one. If the aluminum adjuster fails you will also still be able to ride.
I also went out and played with the slide hammer effect. When I engaged the clutch and disengaged it with the throttle it was not violent like a slide hammer. With out the belt it was smooth with the deceleration. It never slammed. Then I jacked the rear of the sled and ran with the belt. There was more speed in the clutch movement with the track turning, yet no major slamming. The only thing I did not do was to be full throttle and lock up the track with the break. It will be interesting to see how we feel later into the season.
Keep up the posts.
Mike
I
I had a billet clutch cover back in 1999-2001 (can't remember exactly what year it was, or what brand) on a Polaris RMK. Had a similar adjuster for belt clearence (a 'plate' adjusted by small allen screws) and it did rest on the adjusting plate instead of the spider. In several K's of miles, didn't have any issue with impact.
Over the years, I've drove my buds crazy at times b*tching why some aftermarket doesn't come up with a simular product. Engagement was soooo smooth, and adjustable over a longer belt life.
Only time will tell, but my guess is it's going to be great. :decision:
Over the years, I've drove my buds crazy at times b*tching why some aftermarket doesn't come up with a simular product. Engagement was soooo smooth, and adjustable over a longer belt life.
Only time will tell, but my guess is it's going to be great. :decision:
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I installed my new primary and the ABC kit. Very impressed with the fit and function. The new clutch had alot of side clearance. Silky smooth engagement!
Rob
Rob
I
Just put mine in last night. Looks like the stock bolt has a lock washer but the ABC does not. I know of 2 sleds that the stock bolt fell out of, which tells me it's an issue to start with. Hope that sucker stays in ... can you imagine the carnage if the primary came off at 8000RPM? :face-icon-small-sho
Maybe I'll just zip-tie my torque wrench to the bars since it won't fit in the backpack.
Maybe I'll just zip-tie my torque wrench to the bars since it won't fit in the backpack.
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