Does Cat Regret Building the ProClimb???

the 14's flat out rock! the Polaris pro's wont climb with a 14 and they wont keep up on the trail up or down the mountain and the glue tends to let go when the a arms take a hit ... skidoo's crumple when they hit a stump and over heat and frequently sit on the side of the trail while we ride on by to hit the alpine first.... there is pros and cons to all the brands but im very happy with my proclimb.. spend some time on it and learn how to ride it and it does everything pretty well

Might be selling fewer M's since 11, but with only one chassis to build and support, likely making more jing, ignoring the Y impact. One thing cat simply does best is make noticeable improvements to their models year to year. No one could screw up a mountain sled franchise more than poo did in 05.

JSun said:

Again, very good point. But look at the comparison items Polaris is using... you could put the Cat in place of the Doo and it would look exactly the same (weight, bonded a-arms (what a joke), durability (joke), power (joke)). Point is, there is a reason they are comparing to the Doo.

Let's put it this way seeing that you are a MN guy just like me... When you turn on ESPN, they aren't talking about how the Seahawks match up with the Vikings...

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If I wanted to make my product look good I would compare it to the worst product in that category. Just sayin.

JSun said:

Again, very good point. But look at the comparison items Polaris is using... you could put the Cat in place of the Doo and it would look exactly the same (weight, bonded a-arms (what a joke), durability (joke), power (joke)). Point is, there is a reason they are comparing to the Doo.

Let's put it this way seeing that you are a MN guy just like me... When you turn on ESPN, they aren't talking about how the Seahawks match up with the Vikings...

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You could also look at it as ski doo releasing that new sled so they (polaris) are looking at trying to make their sled seem better than something that was just released. Like I said, marketing people are pretty skilled at what they do :face-icon-small-win


and saying they regret building this chassis is a pretty outrageous claim. Cat has the first turbo with factory warranty, many mountain guys who jump prefer the proclimb, it rides a lot better than the old M, and they have started a few more industry firsts with this chassis. So saying that they "regret making the proclimb," is just plain stupid IMO Cause if they did, it would have been scrapped before it was even put into production.

:argue:

I'm typing this and thinking about my previous sleds. (see sig) Now remember that the 11m8 was the pinnacle of that chassis. 7 years of refinement (10years if you count that the chassis kinda came out in 02 with the sno pro racer) was very effective for Cat. I'm sure if you compared an 05 m7 to an 11 m8 all of us would think that the 05 was garbage and should have never been released. However if I was to compare my 11 to my 14 the 14 will win every time.

The PC chassis is slowly gaining popularity. Pick up some sled vids and you will see that the jump and drop guys are slowly making the move. It just takes a little getting used to. For those that hate it I would suggest constantly moving your feet farther forward while you ride. All those years of riding M's has made the habit of having my feet about midway back hard to break. The farther forward my feet are the better the sled handles. I can do more things on this chassis with both feet on the boards than my M ever could. I find myself doing less wrong foot forward on the PC than I ever did on my M. I'm 4 years older and in worse shape yet I'm less fatigued after riding my PC. Those things right there says to me it handles better.

Does cat regret the 2012? Maybe. Do they regret the 2014? Doubtful. Do I regret it? NO CHANCE!

Id have to agree as im one of the few who switched to polaris in 2013 mind you i was comparing apples to oranges with a 2012 M1100t and then a 2013 800 Pro RMK, as much as I love my RMK its a love hate relationship its been in the shop for warranty do to the things they say make it the best in the market... Now I have spent more money on making the polaris safe for me to ride than my usual habits of spending money making my cats faster and better so I guess making them more unsafe to ride lol. next year I will be selling my 2012 and getting either a 14 or a 15 and getting back to making them faster.

This thread is like comparing the ford 7.3L to the 6.0L fall on there face junk and now the 6.7L which can clearly take the punishment. Not trying to de rail the thread with this comparison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHwSGignzgY

Just give it time for everything to evolve and be made better im sure im not the only one switching back.

bad sled ? or were we just used to the best ?

first year sleds of a major rebuild frequently have some issues...which was better/worse ? the 05 polaris or the 12 cat hmmm? i think the cat was the better first year sled of the two...how about the 08 doo ?, not exactly a model of perfection....ok, so how about the 13 cat vs the 06 poo ?, little question in my mind the cat addressed its' first year problems better than polaris did, in fact poo totally dropped the chassis and engine, they were so bad...hmmm, how about that 08 poo 800 engine ? 5 yrs to make the average poo go even 1500 miles ? 7 years for the doo to improve its' chassis to the point that an unbiased rider would compare it favorably to the competition ?....did the m sleds set the standard of a mountain sled for 7 years ?, power, dependability, deep snow game changer ?....forced the competition to step up/ improve their game ?, are we all not better for it ?...so cat could have/ should have worked out a couple of their problems on the 12's ? yep, no question...but the 13 was much improved...and the 14 ?...i'm loving mine, clutches no warmer than my 09 m1000 doing the same riding, down the trail, goes pretty fast, sucks up the bumps so much better than the m, riding the poo on that trail is to experience near hell-o, powder riding seems good, but too early to tell (not enough snow :face-icon-small-fro)....doo has 7 years on this sled, engine good, ride..good, handleing...good, dependability...good, .... stuff to my cat this year ? can, -15.2 lbs, bdx skid, -8 lbs, hood, -10 lbs, oil delete - about 10-12 lbs with oil about 2/3 full, solid steering post, -4.5 lbs, miscellaneous parts, -7 lbs....still to come, fuel controller for port/engine work, should pick up about 8-10 hp and retain stock dependability...oh and one more thing, i rode my m-8000 next to my 09 m-1000 (now my sons') in the powder for most of the day, and the lack of snow on the m-8000 tunnel doing the same riding was very noticeable, tough to weigh, but had to be 10+ lbs....ain't hatin' anybody elses' choices, just appreciating mine..

Change?

To me the 2012 models felt like the 2007 model year all over again. We put almost 400 miles on our 162 sno-pro without one belt failure, all it had was my nose cone vent and a slp can. Was a learning curve at first but, I feel funny on a m series now. Not the big change like coming off a king cat to a m, but I have a different confidence on the pro climb. Like the 2008 models the 2013 was a better sled, few pounds weight loss and the 2.6 track was a big step. I loved our 2013 LE demo, that track just grabs and grabs. narrow a-arms and powder coating made it a great sled, another just under 500 miles and no belt failures. Can't wait to get on our 14', still waiting on snow in northern Utah? Haven't rode a xm, rode a 13 pro 155 and was nice, I swear Polaris took the m7 and made the pro, handle bar position and how light they feel makes me wonder? Still doesn't have the pull of the cat. The only problem is the others have some good sales and are probably going to have some things changed before cat can get the weight down where everyone wants it. It would be nice to loose another 20-40 lbs, but im not sure how they are going to do it.

loved the chassis for jumping, cornice hits, and winning in a line from A to B (when my clutches were cool)

hated it for reliability, the nun i damaged ticked me off (i have a stack of older M series a-arms at least 10 sets throughout the years!!!) when i had to drop the whole front off the pro climb i was not happy and accepted i had a rev nun at that point.

we all know i had a lemon and i wont go there, but honestly i think i would have had just as much issues on any 12 i rode that hard.

i usually dont mind first year sleds from cat, i love doing my own engineering and working out some of the kinks for cat posting them online ect throughout the years. HOWEVER the proclimb in 12 had EVERYONE in the industry fouled up on how to keep them reliable, with no word from cat, lack of free belts as fast as i could blow them made an expensive season for me i put on 1700 miles on my 12 hcr and sold it still eating belts....(with a team tied, geared down, mds weights, striffer motormounts and SEVERAL other tried things)

i wont bash the proclimb to hard as i am HARD on equipment, however. the front end design of the polaris is stronger and i have seen a-arm after a-arm break on there front ends without chassis damage.

in my opinion here is how cat could nail a home run for 15 and dominate the mountain sled market once again.

1-Skinny up the running boards at the foot well at least 2 inches and make bigger snow evacuation holes. this will make them side hill better and really get rid of any advantage the competition has as far as capability.

2-get rid of the big *** spindles, they belong on a trail sled and completely kick *** on a trail sled, but in the mountains in any kind of setup or half setup snow they hook you and J hook your *** right around in a circle/point you up hill. this was exceptionally hard for me at first and i couldn't stand it so much so i spent 2 hours on a hill trying different riding positions and finally figured out i have to literally be READY for it to want to jhook and kick the snow hard to keep it strait and maintain a side hill.

3-Beef up the rails i shouldn't bend the rail on my sled DURING a hill climb race then look over and see another HCR next to me with bent rails too...

4-Get rid of the nose cone, come up strait out of the top of the square air box peace and eliminate all that weight off the front of the sled.

5-Put a wider ski on SERIOUSLY i havnt figured out if you guys own SLP stock or just are that ignorant to what mountain riders really need....

6. Make a new sno pro gauge, im sick of the same gauge i have had since my 08 M8 sno pro!!!


when i bought my 14 assault my deciding factor was i didnt have to buy anything to make it c capable sled for what we do here in Alaska.

my sleds sitting in my front yard and im not looking at my wallet going "next paycheck ill buy skis, then shocks, then.... then.. " instead im saying wheres the snow pull the damn cord, and withing 1500 miles hope the motor dont blow!

-Aksnopro

JSun said:

I agree with you that many people have written off the ProClimb due to concerns with the 2012.

I will question what sales numbers you are referring to. From everything I have heard, the 2010 M8 was the top-selling sled in the industry. 2011 and 2012 model years belonged to the Polaris RMK. 2013 the Ski-Doo Summit ruled and now, well, look at the latest Polaris add, not even a mention of the Cat... do you think there's a reason for that??? I would find it hard to believe that Polaris would skip over the Cat in that comparison if it really was the #2 best selling sled in the industry...

Joe

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I simply read that sales figure on this website. I have absolutely no data to back that up. Just figured the SnoWest magazine probably is fairly reliable.

"Then there’s the Arctic Cat M 800 Sno Pro, which some might call the underdog in the mountain 800 class. The M 800 is not to be overlooked and has the tools to be right in there with the other two 800s.This Cat is ready to pounce with several new features of its own for 2013, refinements that improve the sled’s ride and dependability. Cat was slowed a little last season by “injuries” (read: a few problems) but went to great efforts to right those for this season. Cat officials say the M 800 is 100 percent for the upcoming season. Showing that the M 800 has its head in the game and is a sled to be reckoned with, it was the No. 2 seller in North America behind the 800 Pro RMK last year. That’s how much attention Cat stirred up when it released the new ProClimb chassis last season."

http://www.snowest.com/2013/12/2013-800cc-mountain-sled-snow/

JSun said:

Thanks for backing that up SnoDay. I would like to see the numbers for the 2013 models. 2014 could also be an interesting year, but my guess is the Doo being the top seller.

Joe

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Agreed... I jumped on the bandwagon & bought a proclimb in 2012... once we had time on it though... we bought two XM's. The 14 seems to have it's SH** together now though, but it took a big hit. Poo took some big hits though, and the pro still sells like crazy. unreal the amount of short term memory Poo owners have. Blow a motor on a 12... go buy a 13 & blow another... hey, what should we get for 14??? Oh yeah, it MUST be good now

WYOF7EXT said:

With that said, I have done a lot of work to my '12, some of which has been done on the '14 out of the box. How much have I spent? not a huge amount, mostly time such as pulling the cooler out and shortening it. While there I spent a couple of hundred on the '13 engine mounts and TCL. Isn't personalizing a sled part of the sport?
Just my opinion...

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Not with the ever skyrocketing prices of new sleds (all toys in general). When you drop well over $10k, it darn well needs to be near perfect right from the start.

The product cycles will continue to shorten and the OEMs all fighting for a bigger share of an ever shrinking overall sled market won't have the luxury of keeping chassis around for more than 3 years soon before a major overhaul. Year 1 designs must be spot on.

aksnopro said:

when i bought my 14 assault my deciding factor was i didnt have to buy anything to make it c capable sled for what we do here in Alaska.

-Aksnopro

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Regardless of the brand, that's what you're hoping for.

What is the future for cat. I hear the engine will not meet EPA compliance and will disappear. Which will make it even harder to get close the ProRMK weight.

I do believe the reason the cat motor is better is because it is dirty. I have yet to see a clean burning 2 stroke not need pistons and rings after 2000-5000 miles no matter the brand.

GoBigParts said:

What is the future for cat. I hear the engine will not meet EPA compliance and will disappear. Which will make it even harder to get close the ProRMK weight.

I do believe the reason the cat motor is better is because it is dirty. I have yet to see a clean burning 2 stroke not need pistons and rings after 2000-5000 miles no matter the brand.

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We haven't seen the longevity of the 2 stroke 600 DSI motor from cat yet, so your theory might be out the window on 2000 miles for pistons and rings. :face-icon-small-win

You guys are missing an important aspect of the equation here.

Cat already had in the works, a relationship with Yamaha, probably back in late 09'-mid 2010. You have to plan ahead as far as how your chassis will accommodate your own four stroke motors (That is going away), and Yamahas as well. Then you have to plan for your own two stroke (That is going away), and then plan for a future two stroke motor.

All this said, it would not financial sense for Cat to have several chassis to accommodate all these concerns.

Cat probably looked at the financial benefit of teaming/building with/for Yamaha, and it outweighed the benefit of having a couple of different chassis.

Not that complicated people..........


Joe, I leave in two days for Island Park, for 9 days.........

Jeff C said:

You guys are missing an important aspect of the equation here.

Cat already had in the works, a relationship with Yamaha, probably back in late 09'-mid 2010. You have to plan ahead as far as how your chassis will accommodate your own four stroke motors (That is going away), and Yamahas as well. Then you have to plan for your own two stroke (That is going away), and then plan for a future two stroke motor.

All this said, it would not financial sense for Cat to have several chassis to accommodate all these concerns.

Cat probably looked at the financial benefit of teaming/building with/for Yamaha, and it outweighed the benefit of having a couple of different chassis.

Not that complicated people..........


Joe, I leave in two days for Island Park, for 9 days.........

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So what your saying is Cat has been sleeping with Yamaha so long that they, Cat is almost as far out of the mountain segment as Yamaha was in 2009. IMO Cat has just plain walked away from the mountain sleds and is strictly focused on making flat land, lake racers and groomers. They have no business in the mountains.

When you have a one size fits all, you can damn well bet it will not work for some and will work great for others. And in this case again, the mountain guys are taking it in the a$$.

Thunder

I think the 14 proclimb is an awesome sled and im glad cat made it. Although I would not buy a 12 or 13. Just like I wouldn't buy an 07 or 08 M8.
As long as the clutching is 'fixed' the only bad thing about the 14 proclimb is steep sidehills. Other than that, its nothing but smiles.
I don't think cat regrets the proclimb. I'm sure they are not pleased with the bad rep the 12s got and they are improving every yr just like all of the other manufacturers.

The Pro Rmk will sidehill the steepest slopes period. Anyone who argues that is ignorant.
The Rmk also has the best marketing of any sled I have ever seen. Hell, I almost fell for it. Lol

Ski-doo has the coolest engine. That etec Is super quite and foggs itself. Fit and finish is best of the 3.

I think the proclimb has the best track and suspension from the factory and we ALL know it has the best engine.

Whats really important is which sled do u feel the most comfortable riding. And for me that has been my 09 M8 untill 2014 and now it is the M8000.