Does Cat Regret Building the ProClimb???

JSun · Dec 18, 2013

Hear me out...

Let's go back a few model years... The 2007 and 2008 M8's were so-so sleds, I think a bit of a let down for folks coming off the M7's...

2009 saw Cat drop something like 20-30 lbs. off the M8 along with other improvements like the tunnel cut, handlebars, powerclaw track, etc. The 2009 sled was a great machine, with the only knock being it was under powered compared to the time-bomb 800R and Polaris 800.

2010 saw the introduction of the 800 HO motor, and IMO, quite possibly the best mountain sled ever made. The sled flat-out worked once you got it off the trail. At this point, the RMK and the Summit were fighting over the scraps in the mountains. The Summit XP was difficult for many people to ride and the RMK was still fighting the motor issues. AC was on top of the world and is THE STANDARD for what a mountain sled should be.

Finally in 2011 a worthy competitor is introduced... the Polaris Pro RMK. When compared to the M8, it is about 30 lbs. lighter, slightly narrower and down about 10-15 HP. Is it a good sled? Yes it is. Is it as dependable as the M8? Not by many accounts. Does it handle as well off trail? Yes, but IMO it is still harder to get on edge, however, being slightly narrower a rider can pull it over farther before washing out.

2012 gives us the ProClimb and the beginning of the end of Cat's reign in the mountains. Was the ProClimb a better all-around snowmobile than the M-Series it was replacing? I would say yes, however, while Cat's competitors (Polaris and Ski-Doo) were busy making a sled MORE SPECIFIC to meet the demands of mountain riders, Cat went the other way. They gave us a better all-around sled. Great, but that really wasn't what the market wanted (hind-sight 20/20, i know...).

Now, from what I hear the 2014 is a much improved player. But at this point, Cat has a TON of ground to make up to become relevant to buyers like me who are NOT brand loyal. I am not saying it can't be done, but I wonder what the mountains would look like today if instead of the ProClimb, Cat simply "updated" the M-Series. In 2012, I would have bought a new Cat instead of my Pro had Cat maybe updated the body style of the M (a littler narrower) and dropped 10-15 lbs.

I wonder if it has made financial sense for Cat to only have one chassis and lose out on sales out west...

Joe

boondocker97 · Dec 18, 2013

I think cat tried to push the new chassis too quick and release it before it should have been for their 50th aniversary. Riding a 2012 back to back with a 2011 in deep snow, I didn't feel like there was any advantage to upgrading. And if a new chassis is released, it should make you feel like it is way better than the previous one or else it was a waste of time and money on their part to develop it.

The main gripe with the m-series was that the suspension was not very good on the trail. They fixed that with the pro-climb chassis, but forgot to include the characteristics that made the m-series as good as it was in the deep snow. If the 13 model was the first introduction of the chassis it would have been better. The 14 is really what should have hit the snow first. If they could pull another 15lb from the sled and re-work the body pannels to be narrow they would really have something, but I hope by the time they do that it isn't too little too late. I know Polaris and Ski-doo are not going to sit back and wait.

Arctic Thunder · Dec 18, 2013

I personally think the folks behind the design of the Proclimb just don't connect with the mountain guys. Like you said they were looking for a one chassis works for all combination. It just doesn't work out. (of course Brandt and Rassmusen don't know crap about mountain riding and when they tell Cat specifically the issues and Cat doesn't listen that should have been a sign)

The other thing is they must have had pictures of the Ski-doo XP posted on the walls of the office and as the desktop pictures when they designed the Proclimb. But being engineers they again missed a few minor details. Like weight, clutching/belt life. And while drooling over the XP as they designed it's twin the Proclimb they didn't even look at where Polaris was going. Because Polaris passed them in turn one and never looked back.

All those guys that hated Polaris because of the 2000 mile broken crank problems, are now saying "Ill take a broken crank (or trade sleds) before I will take a belt blowing, ill handling Proclimb"

It's really to bad that AC has so much money tied up in this sled. They will not change until 2017 at least. And by then they will be under, taking Yamaha with them.

Thunder

RACINSTATION · Dec 18, 2013

Oh boy....first world problems that we deal with.

leadfoot33 · Dec 18, 2013

LOL i like ur post racin station. i have no issues with the cats, i dont ride in extremem conditions like burandt and the proclimb works excellent for me. do i think cat kinda dropped the ball. you bet the 2013 is what they should have released in 2012. but the 2014 is an excellent sled and so is my 13 once it was geared down and had the new clutch.

JSun · Dec 18, 2013

You got me...

RACINSTATION said:
Oh boy....first world problems that we deal with.

No matter what I think... that's kind of funny racinstation...

wasatchcomm · Dec 18, 2013

i think its a great sled,, like others have stated, the 14 is what should have come to town in 2012...

the rmk may be more nimble in the tight trees, but imo its due to its narrow design and overall weight, if the cat can get the weight down and narrow the front end i think we are not having this discussion.

it is the best all around sled, and i like that,,cause most of us have to ride a little of everything.... its not 3' deep and technical everywhere!!!!!!!!

i wont even mention the motor!!! we all know its the standard!

with that said, they are all great sleds...

but for me the cat has my vote....

stingray719 · Dec 18, 2013

Sooo.....you are saying that the orignal M series took a couple years to get ironed out but now say the Proclimb should be perfect first year. ***confused***

I waited till Cat got it right on the 2014 before I bought, are you in the habit of buying first year models and complaining? (think 1953 and 1954 Corvette, so bad almost cancelled the model)

By the way I rode a 2014 Polaris Pro and no way would I rather ride that than my 2014 M8 ltd...just so ya know.

Bacon · Dec 18, 2013

I am going to have to make a concerted effort to ride with some Poo's this year. All the ones I have encountered are content to side hill all day on a bunny hill. I know they are good sleds but I don't feel like I am handicapped by riding a Cat. They have the best motor in the biz and I like the way they handle in all conditions. It would have been nice if the '14 sled was released in '12' but it is what it is. My son rides a stock '12 Proclimb and can ride circles around most people so it can't be that terrible. Stock other than suspension mods.

0neoldfart · Dec 18, 2013

Step backward?

Well, I never owned a 2012 Proclimb, or even rode one. But I do have two 2013 Proclimbs - a 800 Ltd 162 and a 1100T Ltd 162. Also have a 2013 Polaris Pro RMK. All are good sleds, and an improvement over our previous M-series in more then one specific area. None of them were perfect out of the box, either. From what I've seen of the 2014 Pro RMK and Proclimb, both have had minor refinements and BNG, and either is a great choice for the MAJORITY of riders - not all of us are Brett or Chris, nor will we ever be. My dealer has a lot to do with what I'm riding - if you have good dealer support it doesn't much matter what you're on. My 2 cents.

rockymtnboy · Dec 18, 2013

Last yr I had a m8(lightened up with a couple mods) and a bone stock(other than ski's) proclimb in my shop. The m sat in the shop while the proclimb got rode. IT IS BETTER! I loved my m and thought I could never replace it. You cannot jump on a PC and expect it to ride like a m, doesn't work! Once you spend some time on a proclimb and learn its geometry, you will never look back. The first 2 days I spent on my PC I wanted to take it back. IMO, the proclimb is better in all aspects except one, low speed steep side hills. I have been told the bdx front end helps this, not sure if it is true or not but I have one being powder coated right now, I'll let ya know.....I have not rode a xm but I hated the xp. the pro is easy to ride out of the box, but the motor sucks. When I checked my PC I was torn on which one, pro or PC. Looking back and after riding both sleds as much as I have, for once, I made the right decision.

JSun · Dec 18, 2013

stingray719 said:
Sooo.....you are saying that the orignal M series took a couple years to get ironed out but now say the Proclimb should be perfect first year. ***confused***

I waited till Cat got it right on the 2014 before I bought, are you in the habit of buying first year models and complaining? (think 1953 and 1954 Corvette, so bad almost cancelled the model)

By the way I rode a 2014 Polaris Pro and no way would I rather ride that than my 2014 M8 ltd...just so ya know.

What I am saying is that Cat should have improved on what they had in the 2011 M8... they didn't. They went backward as far as a PURE mountain sled. From the 2006 M7 to 2007 M8 the biggest complaint was that the M8 only had about 2 more HP... they did nothing to hurt the PURPOSE of the sled.

Now, like I said in my initial post, the ProClimb is a better all-around sled. I have spent a fair amount of time on my dad's 2012 ProClimb, and I spent a lot of time on the 2010 M8 he had before that.

Let's simplify this a little bit...

Why has Cat gone from first to worst (not including Yamaha) as far as sales in the mountains since 2010? Mind you, this is with the majority of riders agreeing the Cat motor is the best on the market, yet they are still buying Poo's and Doo's.

Joe

jbusch · Dec 18, 2013

I switched from an 09 m1000 with some beefy mods to a bone stock 13 proclimb last year. Night and day. Rckymtnboy is right they have a different riding style. My m always liked to return to center and you rode it knowing that. I am 6'6" and around 250 fully geared, so when I figured out how to ride the pc, which didnt take very long, it was much easier to ride, less fatique at the eod. The pc did everything the m did and yet seemd easier. We will see what this season brings. I added a 950 kit with pipe and can. Mtn fit hood with headlight delete, bdx front end, trail tank, and some racewerx running boards. A buddy of mine bought my m1000 and had it ported and added a 3" track. So we will see which sled excels where.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

SnoDay · Dec 18, 2013

JSun said:
What I am saying is that Cat should have improved on what they had in the 2011 M8... they didn't. They went backward as far as a PURE mountain sled. From the 2006 M7 to 2007 M8 the biggest complaint was that the M8 only had about 2 more HP... they did nothing to hurt the PURPOSE of the sled.

Now, like I said in my initial post, the ProClimb is a better all-around sled. I have spent a fair amount of time on my dad's 2012 ProClimb, and I spent a lot of time on the 2010 M8 he had before that.

Let's simplify this a little bit...

Why has Cat gone from first to worst (not including Yamaha) as far as sales in the mountains since 2010? Mind you, this is with the majority of riders agreeing the Cat motor is the best on the market, yet they are still buying Poo's and Doo's.

Joe

First the M8 Sno Pro was one of the best selling sleds in NA second to only the RMK. I'd say that's not exactly doing terrible in sales. Second I think many people write of the PC because of first year model issues that have basically all been addressed.

WYOF7EXT · Dec 18, 2013

While I agree that it ticks one off when you buy a first year new model sled and see improvements being made to the next two years, I will say that at least they are making improvements. Are these changes going to make everyone happy? No way in heck, it's never going to happen.

But really, don't all sleds have issues of some sort?

I have a '12 M8 Proclimb and my wife has a '10 M8, both SnoPros. I only like the '10 if I have to ride trails to get to the good stuff on a cold day. That big fat hood make a nice wind deflector! Other than that I really don't care for it, it seems everything is harder than the '12.

With that said, I have done a lot of work to my '12, some of which has been done on the '14 out of the box. How much have I spent? not a huge amount, mostly time such as pulling the cooler out and shortening it. While there I spent a couple of hundred on the '13 engine mounts and TCL. Isn't personalizing a sled part of the sport? I know of no one that really rides a lot that doesn't spend more money on stuff they may or may not need.

Honestly I am fine with it. I have been riding this '12 and learning it as well as improving it. I rode a '14 Sunday in really good snow and you would have a hard time telling them apart other than the Powder Pro's I have on mine floated a little bit better I thought. I am glad I have not been riding an older M the last two years...

Just my opinion...

JSun · Dec 18, 2013

SnoDay said:
First the M8 Sno Pro was one of the best selling sleds in NA second to only the RMK. I'd say that's not exactly doing terrible in sales. Second I think many people write of the PC because of first year model issues that have basically all been addressed.

I agree with you that many people have written off the ProClimb due to concerns with the 2012.

I will question what sales numbers you are referring to. From everything I have heard, the 2010 M8 was the top-selling sled in the industry. 2011 and 2012 model years belonged to the Polaris RMK. 2013 the Ski-Doo Summit ruled and now, well, look at the latest Polaris add, not even a mention of the Cat... do you think there's a reason for that??? I would find it hard to believe that Polaris would skip over the Cat in that comparison if it really was the #2 best selling sled in the industry...

Joe

arctic2009 · Dec 18, 2013

JSun said:
I agree with you that many people have written off the ProClimb due to concerns with the 2012.

I will question what sales numbers you are referring to. From everything I have heard, the 2010 M8 was the top-selling sled in the industry. 2011 and 2012 model years belonged to the Polaris RMK. 2013 the Ski-Doo Summit ruled and now, well, look at the latest Polaris add, not even a mention of the Cat... do you think there's a reason for that??? I would find it hard to believe that Polaris would skip over the Cat in that comparison if it really was the #2 best selling sled in the industry...

Joe

You need to look at it the other way as well, did they compare to the doo to make their sled look better in comparison?? Marketing can make something look however they want with points they are comparing on. Just my 2 cents..

Farmbuilt800 · Dec 18, 2013

The reason that it isnt the 2nd best seller has pretty well already been discuseed in this thread. All manufactures make their mistakes, some worse than others. Just like polaris when they came out with the 900. Bout took em down. Ac will come back especially if they have success with their new motors. I dont know bout any of you guys but trying to design a sled from nothing does not exactly sound like a walk in the park. I doubt they regret the proclimb in general just maybe some overlooked items that really shouldnt have been. Jmho.

stingray719 · Dec 18, 2013

JSun said:
What I am saying is that Cat should have improved on what they had in the 2011 M8... they didn't. They went backward as far as a PURE mountain sled. From the 2006 M7 to 2007 M8 the biggest complaint was that the M8 only had about 2 more HP... they did nothing to hurt the PURPOSE of the sled.

Now, like I said in my initial post, the ProClimb is a better all-around sled. I have spent a fair amount of time on my dad's 2012 ProClimb, and I spent a lot of time on the 2010 M8 he had before that.

Let's simplify this a little bit...

Why has Cat gone from first to worst (not including Yamaha) as far as sales in the mountains since 2010? Mind you, this is with the majority of riders agreeing the Cat motor is the best on the market, yet they are still buying Poo's and Doo's.

Joe

Save that thought until the end of this year, as most have not even seen a 2014 M8 let alone rode one. OH, and wait until next year to see what comes from this Cat/Yamaha partnership. Things take time to gell.

JSun · Dec 18, 2013

arctic2009 said:
You need to look at it the other way as well, did they compare to the doo to make their sled look better in comparison?? Marketing can make something look however they want with points they are comparing on. Just my 2 cents..

Again, very good point. But look at the comparison items Polaris is using... you could put the Cat in place of the Doo and it would look exactly the same (weight, bonded a-arms (what a joke), durability (joke), power (joke)). Point is, there is a reason they are comparing to the Doo.

Let's put it this way seeing that you are a MN guy just like me... When you turn on ESPN, they aren't talking about how the Seahawks match up with the Vikings...

Does Cat Regret Building the ProClimb???

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Similar threads