considering turbo

taylorbok · Mar 28, 2011

Hey i have been considering 1) buying a turbo kit 2) building my own turbo kit. the reason i would be build my own is to get exactly what I want, being an external wastgate, electronic boost gauge, I would like to not run a oil resevoir but might have to if i decide that i don't wanna run an aerocharger. I need quick spool (like super quick, i like to tree ride) also how do i run the pressure regulator? I know with injectors you run it on the return line but on a carb? also what happens with the lines from the carbs, sounds like I must pressure them up by plumbing them to the "air box" but not sure if i do them all or just certain ones? also am i going to have problems with the floats collapsing? and the dpm I'm assuming has to be removed? just plug the hoses and unplug the wires? what turbo, the TiAL looks like what i want but what size? 28-60 or 30-76 but I think the 30 might be to much lag for what I want but the 28-60 might be to small. let me know what you all think, sorry for all the questions.

fredw · Mar 28, 2011

from the little turbo exsperience i have so far, fueling seams to be the biggest step in the turbo package, finding the sweet spot and maintaining it for the entire fuel curve comes with its challenges, being direct injection, and being on a carb setup, i feel it is even more challenging, their is guys running carb turbos, but some or detuning compression to advoid detionation, and offer reliabilty, at the exspense of throttle responsiveness, what ever decision you take i wish you the best, and always carry a rope... because you will need it once in a while

taylorbok · Mar 28, 2011

HAHA always good practice to carry a rope. I don't want to loose responsiveness so I don't think I will lower compression, possibly forcing me to run race fuel. to get fuel everyone is using power jets looks easy enough

gus bohne · Mar 28, 2011

To date, the #1 complaint of the e tech turbos is POOR response..
Why do they bog ?
ALL have a bog that none of the carb sleds have ..
Now when the trask system gets tuned it will be on top AS WELL as the Turbo performance e tech..

Airflow is what makes for good response when NOT spooled,, small pinchy little turbos do not flow air worth a frigg until they are just short of overspeeding...no turbo speed NO response.

You are Now seeing a trend I instigated taking set with our Polaris/cat brothers, Thay are switching to 76 compressors on the 800's and 82's on the 1000's for RESPONSE.
these larger compressors are moving good air even at low turbo speeds and allow for excellent response as well as cooler charge temps..

driveabilty is up due to airflow and of course, peak power is better too.

2 strokes love air

4 stroke tuners/ programmers have copied most all of what the carbs guys have taught them and by the looks of the fiasco of the e techs and the after 4 months they still bog,,, comments I guess they will have to copy evry last thing they can see..

Gus

theshadowrider · Mar 28, 2011

taylorbok said:
HAHA always good practice to carry a rope. I don't want to loose responsiveness so I don't think I will lower compression, possibly forcing me to run race fuel. to get fuel everyone is using power jets looks easy enough

Then don't turbo it. You WILL lose responsiveness with a turbo. Responsiveness will be less than stock. Others claim "zero lag" but that is physically impossible. With that being said you can get them pretty good and get "used" to riding them and keeping your rpms up a little higher. I have a turbo polaris and my brother has a turbo xp. They both run less responsiveness than stock, the xp more because of the carbs. I have rode three different sleds and all three have less responsiveness than stock, but its not that bad. It takes about 5 min to get use to riding a little different. Its a trade-off that we are willing to live with for the gobs of power these things make. My suggestion is to go and ride a xp with a turbo on it. If you are wanting to build your own then you are going into uncharted territory as you will run into the same problems that other have ran into and figured out. I would highly suggest going out riding with someone who has one and see how you like it. Call up a builder and go out and try before you buy. Read all the threads on here, what ever way you go don't run the stock pipe. Someone on here said that, "carbed turbos are a labor of love." After watching my brother with his turbo XP I now understand what they where talking about. Make sure you have a backup sled! With that being said he hasn't lit it on fire yet and its finally running good.

Bendy · Mar 28, 2011

Bulls**t!

My 04 800HO has no lag what so ever! It rides like a stocker with a tonne of power. Try using the right Turbo for your application.

PJ-Hunter · Mar 28, 2011

Bendy said:
My 04 800HO has no lag what so ever! It rides like a stocker with a tonne of power. Try using the right Turbo for your application.

With ya on that! My T-XP is running flawless so far. It is responsive, the only thing that I am getting used to is the higher clutch engagement. I was climbing up the steep, through narrow trees in 18" of fresh powder and that same sled with just a pipe, head and reeds never would have done it. I'm beginning to see that the Carbed T-XP critics are just mad because a carbed sled under boost is doing better than the fancy efi things.

Wheel House Motorsports · Mar 28, 2011

As someone who has built some odd duck stuff, and tried a lot, failed, but also succeeded... heres my take.

it is 1000000% a labor of love. I go out and ride EVERY weekend if not more from the end of october into june and there are many days, like yesterday, i make it partway up the trail or barely get any riding in and something stupid happens... usually because im constantly refining my own stuff so its not the most perfect clean install... trial and error, its what happens when you make your own. I am not saying that every kit you buy is gonna be bolt on and rock, many are still far from it, we are pushing already very breakable machines into power territory that is just way farther ahead then they started at.

my thoughts on building your own kit.. unless you are willing to experiment a lot and take a LOT of time after every single ride and take it apart and inspect things, go over make sure its all working out, then NO< dont get into it. that even holds true to a similar level to a bought kit... there is so much more going on that if you dont keep and eye on it and preventative maintinace it, your not going to like it, it WILL fail on you in the woods and ruin many days of riding. also, its not just you.. how much are your riding budies gonna put up with?? I ride with folks with a fella who builds just like me.. chit happens days get cut short, the rope comes out, a LOT, but its a two way street and we accept it.. if you ride with people who dont, DEFINATELY dont if your not willing to risk riding buddies... it can really strain relationships.. especially if your not able to ride whenever you want all the time close to home..

if that didnt convince you not to do it and you have the facilities to build stuff, hit me up.. got ideas flowing out my ears.. and lots of tips and tricks.

taylorbok · Mar 28, 2011

thought I decided on the 2860 TiAL but your saying go to a 3076, I dont know according to my math of 2.11 pressure ratio and between 25-29 lb/min (math could be off) I thought the 2860 or 2871 would be a good choice I want fast spool with quick response but your saying 3076 . I deff want external waste gate. is there a way to take the mechancial one off a garrett and run an external one. share your ideas on here. I pretty much know what I want just cant decide which turbo to use the rest pretty much have figured out in my head aside from where to put the fuel pressure regulator with the carbs? would I have to plumb in my own return line to put it on?

taylorbok · Mar 28, 2011

by the way found a kit for cheap deal pending. I would rather build my own kit and get what I want vs settling for this kit but this kit is way cheaper.

Bendy · Mar 28, 2011

Huh

Not to be a d**k Taylor, but if you have to ask these questions you better buy a kit with instruction and a base setting on clutching and fuel for your elevation. If you're not wanting to wrench on this thing for the first season and a half, get a kit professionally installed. Even then good luck getting it running awesome right away. If you don't know the theory behind the 2 stroke Turbo you're gonna have trouble tuning it.

taylorbok · Mar 28, 2011

no problem wrenching on it. not getting it installed I can do that just fine. I dont think any turbo will run awesome right away unless you have them dial it in for you. I think I have a better understanding than you are led to believe, I am assuming your talking about the wastegate question I asked above, I didnt think it would be possible but didnt think it would hurt to ask either, and the fuel pressure regulator I still dont know.

taylorbok · Mar 28, 2011

theshadowrider said:
Then don't turbo it. You WILL lose responsiveness with a turbo. Responsiveness will be less than stock. Others claim "zero lag" but that is physically impossible. With that being said you can get them pretty good and get "used" to riding them and keeping your rpms up a little higher.

I know its going to loose responsiveness but I figure it will loose a lot less if I use the stock head. I know I will have to get used to the riding style, I shouldn't have an issue doing that.

taylorbok · Mar 28, 2011

I have the pressure regulator figured now, to bad no one was going to share on that one, I guess it goes in line I thought it had to go on a return line like in a efi set up to hold the pressure in didn't think it could put pressure out. oh well If I build my own kit I will put up pictures and stuff for the next guy.

doo runner · Mar 28, 2011

re turbo

hey taylor are you pulling our legs with all these questions or are you serious .

taylorbok · Mar 29, 2011

pretty much my only question on the table is what turbo to use and the only person who has attempted to answer that is gus bohne and he is suggesting a bigger turbo and I am afraid thats gonna cause to much lag.

maniac mechanic · Mar 29, 2011

Gus is correct, responsiveness is related to air flow. But air flow is not only related to the size of turbo. The proper pluming and plenum design will make a world of difference, as well as getting the carbs vented properly. Building your own kit will be enjoyable, as long as you are ready to test and tune , like many have said. To be honest, you will find, when its all said and done, it would have been cheaper to get a kit from someone who has spent the time working out the bugs. that being said, hope you have fun either way.

Wheel House Motorsports · Mar 29, 2011

taylorbok said:
pretty much my only question on the table is what turbo to use and the only person who has attempted to answer that is gus bohne and he is suggesting a bigger turbo and I am afraid thats gonna cause to much lag.

If i were to make a recomendation on a turbo.. precision 2868. its a garret hotside with a custom billet wheel and their compressor housing. they are only a few more bucks then a 2860 or 2871 garrett and the supposedly spool like the smaller and flow like the bigger. or forced performance does some similar turbos as well.. all good options. I know silber has the pte 2868's for a good price, so you could pick one up from him.

a good flowin turbo, large charge tube with minimal bending, proper airbox volume and your ready to move some air. 2 strokes will spool these large turbos very well, and the huge compressor sides just move so much air at low speeds, they work amazingly. this allows for easier tuning as your not trying to fuel a starved bottom end then a huge flowing top end.. just a big steady flowing amount of air.

Heck, i know when my buddies sled sometimes pops when trying to start it you can hear the turbo spool down like the thing has been running. its insane.

Bendy · Mar 29, 2011

I agree

I agree with QV and Ski-dooin it. The lag issues you talk of can be eliminated by using all the right components. Intake plenum, charge tubes, inter-cooler, end dump, pipe etc. and of course, the size of impeller and exducer in the turbo. I just purchased a 2011 Rev XP 800R 163. Its a great sled. Put pump gas and oil and ride. But my 04 800HO T-REV will destroy that poor little sled any day any where. From a dead stop, pulling through the trees, down the trail and up the mountain. I ride half throttle across the meadows and right beside me is my buddy riding my new sled to the bar pulling 8000 RPM. I mash the throttle up come the skis and I'm gone. No comparison, no lag. Don't get me wrong, I ride at different elevations and temps, and if my jetting is too rich it loads up on the bottom. I've found a base-line for jetting based on where I'll be riding that day and what the temp is going to be. Thats why It takes so long to tune. At least that was my experience. Not to mention all the cracked pipes, blown bellows and reeds. I had an Aero 53 originally and it wasn't worth the time. Now I have a Big 66 and I love it. I use my quick clickers and my powerjets to fine tune once I have my base jetting where it needs to be. I love my turbo Rev, but it takes time to iron out the wrinkles. Its definitely a "passion of love", you'll enjoy your turbo sled if you're willing to battle through all the little bulls**t probs. There are bunch of guys on this site like Gus, Brycter and Andrew. They specialize in this field so use them as much as you can, they have priceless knowledge.

badass1000 · Mar 29, 2011

i have a garrett gt2871 with the tial .86 stainless turbine houseing. tial mvs wastegate and 50mm q bov. sled runs great. runing 10.2psi spring right now. Half throttle is like a na xp. full throttle is leave them in the powder (dust). :face-icon-small-hap

It is a 08 I bought new in dec 07. It has had the turbo on it the last two years.

considering turbo

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